How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church
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1 sam 10:19 καὶ ὑμεῗς σήμερον ἐξουθενήκατε τὸν θεόν ὃς αὐτός ἐστιν ὑμῶν σωτὴρ ἐκ πάντων τῶν κακῶν ὑμῶν καὶ θλίψεων ὑμῶν καὶ εἴπατε οὐχί ἀλλ᾽ ἢ ὅτι βασιλέα στήσεις ἐφ᾽ ἡμῶν καὶ νῦν κατάστητε ἐνώπιον κυρίου κατὰ τὰ σκῆπτρα ὑμῶν καὶ κατὰ τὰς φυλὰς ὑμῶν Hab3:9 ἐντείνων ἐντενεῗς τὸ τόξον σου ἐπὶ τὰ σκῆπτρα λέγει κύριος διάψαλμα ποταμῶν ῥαγήσεται γῆ,,,Dont see it? could u past the word 4 me? l'm looking 4 a sigma?
i agree, pre-trib is a bunch of bad stinking baloney
But you are not, if Christ is in you - i believe you love truth and this challenge is for our Sanctification.
Holy Father, protect them by Your name, the name You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one. While I was with them, I protected and preserved them by Your name, the name You gave Me. Not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
But now I am coming to You; and I am saying these things while I am in the world, so that they may have My joy fulfilled within them. I have given them Your word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.
As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world.
For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.
Amen and Good Night
But you are not, if Christ is in you - i believe you love truth and this challenge is for our Sanctification.
Holy Father, protect them by Your name, the name You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one. While I was with them, I protected and preserved them by Your name, the name You gave Me. Not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
But now I am coming to You; and I am saying these things while I am in the world, so that they may have My joy fulfilled within them. I have given them Your word and the world has hated them; for they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Sanctify them by the truth; Your word is truth.
As You sent Me into the world, I have also sent them into the world.
For them I sanctify Myself, so that they too may be sanctified by the truth.
Amen and Good Night
I was reading something interesting about a particular word in this verse - 1Sam10:19 (as found in the LXX / Septuagint):
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1sa/10/19/ss0/t_concr_246019 [you have to click on the tab "Septuagint" to see it]
The word I'm referring to is in the latter part of the verse, the one where no Strong's Number has been supplied for it at this BLB page (where is says "Not Available"--scroll down to see that--after you select "Septuagint")... it's the word "SKEPTRA"...
... and it is a word used also in Hab3:9 LXX [/Septuagint] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/hab/3/9/t_conc_906009 [again, you have to manually select "Septuagint" as it doesn't automatically pop up showing the "Septuagint" part--it's the 8th word down].
The article I was reading said something about the word "skeptra" as having the meaning of "spear" (and went on to say some interesting things about it... in the small excerpt I was reading about the word)
https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1sa/10/19/ss0/t_concr_246019 [you have to click on the tab "Septuagint" to see it]
The word I'm referring to is in the latter part of the verse, the one where no Strong's Number has been supplied for it at this BLB page (where is says "Not Available"--scroll down to see that--after you select "Septuagint")... it's the word "SKEPTRA"...
... and it is a word used also in Hab3:9 LXX [/Septuagint] - https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/hab/3/9/t_conc_906009 [again, you have to manually select "Septuagint" as it doesn't automatically pop up showing the "Septuagint" part--it's the 8th word down].
The article I was reading said something about the word "skeptra" as having the meaning of "spear" (and went on to say some interesting things about it... in the small excerpt I was reading about the word)
I said the CONTEXT refers to it.
The CONTEXT of the verses you pointed out, indeed uses the term (which you are suggesting does not relate to your verses. I say it DOES because of "CONTEXT").
So, what I said (in a post relating to this--maybe not in the post directly responding to yours) was this (boiled down here):
--in scripture, in contexts where the phrases "THE DAY OF THE LORD" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in proximity, they are referring to THE SAME TIME-PERIOD
[and 2Th 1 & 2Th 2--these two chpts--also use these phrases... IN the SAME CONTEXT that Paul is covering in these TWO CHPTS--Please check out the Greek phrasing]
If you disagree with this statement (in bold ^ ), please explain why you disagree
--Paul, in 1Th5:2-3, states that "THE DAY OF THE LORD" will "ARRIVE" ['so COMETH'] AS [IN THE MANNER OF]... (--->)... "EXACTLY AS / INDEED JUST AS" LABOR-PANG [SINGULAR] (COMES UPON) a woman-with-child... that is, UNEXPECTED or SUDDEN... This is NOT talking about way far into labor when the baby is about to come out, but the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR<--Paul uses the SINGULAR of the SAME TERM Jesus used in the PLURAL...
--in 2Th2, Paul is basically making the point, "don't believe THEM [the v.2 false conveyors saying a specific false thing]," believe US INSTEAD (v.15); it is in this chpt 2 passage that Paul spells out the SEQUENCE (repeated 3x here), between what the Subject was that the false conveyors were purporting ("that THE DAY OF THE LORD is present / is already here [PERFECT INDICATIVE]") in how it RELATES time-wise / sequence-wise to the Subject which PAUL IS BRINGING TO BEAR on that false notion / false msg of v.2, by his [Paul's] telling that ONE THING [he says comes] *FIRST* [per the Doctrine of v.1,v.15 HE IS BRINGING TO BEAR on the issue at hand--the issue: not being deceived by those claiming a particular false thing, v.2]... though TWO conditions listed... BEFORE it can be TRUTHFULLY stated "that THE DAY OF THE LORD IS PRESENT / IS HERE" (as was falsely claimed, per what Paul informs about in v.2)
The CONTEXT of the verses you pointed out, indeed uses the term (which you are suggesting does not relate to your verses. I say it DOES because of "CONTEXT").
So, what I said (in a post relating to this--maybe not in the post directly responding to yours) was this (boiled down here):
--in scripture, in contexts where the phrases "THE DAY OF THE LORD" and "IN THAT DAY" are used in proximity, they are referring to THE SAME TIME-PERIOD
[and 2Th 1 & 2Th 2--these two chpts--also use these phrases... IN the SAME CONTEXT that Paul is covering in these TWO CHPTS--Please check out the Greek phrasing]
If you disagree with this statement (in bold ^ ), please explain why you disagree
--Paul, in 1Th5:2-3, states that "THE DAY OF THE LORD" will "ARRIVE" ['so COMETH'] AS [IN THE MANNER OF]... (--->)... "EXACTLY AS / INDEED JUST AS" LABOR-PANG [SINGULAR] (COMES UPON) a woman-with-child... that is, UNEXPECTED or SUDDEN... This is NOT talking about way far into labor when the baby is about to come out, but the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR<--Paul uses the SINGULAR of the SAME TERM Jesus used in the PLURAL...
- Paul and Jesus are referring to the SAME THING! / SAME POINT-IN-TIME... its ARRIVAL!!! (and "the beginning of birth PANGS [PLURAL]" Jesus spoke of are EQUIVALENT the "SEALS" at the START of the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time-period [Rev1:1 / 1:19c /4:1--COMPARE the wording of the Greek], which is "what things must take place AFTER THESE [after "the things WHICH ARE" of Rev2-3, which are NOT said are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" by contrast!]
--in 2Th2, Paul is basically making the point, "don't believe THEM [the v.2 false conveyors saying a specific false thing]," believe US INSTEAD (v.15); it is in this chpt 2 passage that Paul spells out the SEQUENCE (repeated 3x here), between what the Subject was that the false conveyors were purporting ("that THE DAY OF THE LORD is present / is already here [PERFECT INDICATIVE]") in how it RELATES time-wise / sequence-wise to the Subject which PAUL IS BRINGING TO BEAR on that false notion / false msg of v.2, by his [Paul's] telling that ONE THING [he says comes] *FIRST* [per the Doctrine of v.1,v.15 HE IS BRINGING TO BEAR on the issue at hand--the issue: not being deceived by those claiming a particular false thing, v.2]... though TWO conditions listed... BEFORE it can be TRUTHFULLY stated "that THE DAY OF THE LORD IS PRESENT / IS HERE" (as was falsely claimed, per what Paul informs about in v.2)
Do you not agree that the ten commandments are a reflection of God's character?
"you shall not steal"...because God is not a thief.
"you shall not commit adultery"...because God is faithful.
"you shall not bear false witness"...because God speaks the truth.
etc...
The ten commandments make us wise about our way of life:
"The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple". (Psalm 19:7)
To clarify, I don't believe the ten commandments are binding as a whole to the Church. But 9 of them are reiterated in the NT, so those are still commanded of us. But observing the ten as a whole makes us wise and is profitable as a guide. It's not the most important section of the Law. But it is one of the effective summaries for a quick recall when one desires to meditate on the whole of the Law. God wrote it with his own hand, indicating significant importance. And these ten are referred to dozens of times throughout the Bible as a group of commandments that are given more attention than others.
These commandments sanctify us unto the likeness of Christ. They are not "legally harsh".
“For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.” (1 John 5:3)
"you shall not steal"...because God is not a thief.
"you shall not commit adultery"...because God is faithful.
"you shall not bear false witness"...because God speaks the truth.
etc...
The ten commandments make us wise about our way of life:
"The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple". (Psalm 19:7)
To clarify, I don't believe the ten commandments are binding as a whole to the Church. But 9 of them are reiterated in the NT, so those are still commanded of us. But observing the ten as a whole makes us wise and is profitable as a guide. It's not the most important section of the Law. But it is one of the effective summaries for a quick recall when one desires to meditate on the whole of the Law. God wrote it with his own hand, indicating significant importance. And these ten are referred to dozens of times throughout the Bible as a group of commandments that are given more attention than others.
These commandments sanctify us unto the likeness of Christ. They are not "legally harsh".
“For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.” (1 John 5:3)
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In the past, God spoke to His people through their ancestors and through the prophets. Today, He speaks to us through the Son.
Hebrews 1:1-5 "In the past, God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..."
The Scribes and Pharisees burdened the people with the Law: "They tie up heavy, burdensome loads and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them."
There is no contention that the Law was a burden, the contention was that the Scribes and Pharisees did nothing to help the people.
But the commands of God, speaking through His Son, are not burdensome.
"Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."
"A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you also must love one another."
So, here are several of His commandments just from these two lines:
1. Know the only true God
2. Know the Son whom He sent.
3. Love one another as He has loved us.
4. Luke Chapter 7 has many examples of the Lord's commands.
There are many others...
5. Do only what you see that Father doing
6. Honor the Son and Father
7. Live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God
8. Be led by the Spirit of God
and many more...
Let me address the last one, 8. Under the Mosaic Law, we might pass by a small stone without any thought. There is nothing in the Law that calls us to deal with the stone. Now, being led by the Spirit of God, He might tell us to "pick up the stone and take it home". If we try to justify our actions by the Law, we can assert that there is no such Law. Yet, as sons of God, we are to obey the words of our Father in Heaven. If we do not pick up the stone and take it home we violate the bond of the Spirit we have in Christ.
Finally, there are three means in which God communicates to us: by His Spirit to our spirits; by the scriptures; and through another who caries the grace of God. All of these examples are found frequently in the scriptures. Let's deal with the last one: Paul (and others) directed people and whole churches to do certain things the Lord was showing him. Do we think the ones who directed others in the scriptures contrived them out of the air? Of course not, they were, like many wrote, being led by the Spirit of God and only did what they saw their Father doing.
Aaron56
Hebrews 1:1-5 "In the past, God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son..."
The Scribes and Pharisees burdened the people with the Law: "They tie up heavy, burdensome loads and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them."
There is no contention that the Law was a burden, the contention was that the Scribes and Pharisees did nothing to help the people.
But the commands of God, speaking through His Son, are not burdensome.
"Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent."
"A new commandment I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you also must love one another."
So, here are several of His commandments just from these two lines:
1. Know the only true God
2. Know the Son whom He sent.
3. Love one another as He has loved us.
4. Luke Chapter 7 has many examples of the Lord's commands.
There are many others...
5. Do only what you see that Father doing
6. Honor the Son and Father
7. Live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God
8. Be led by the Spirit of God
and many more...
Let me address the last one, 8. Under the Mosaic Law, we might pass by a small stone without any thought. There is nothing in the Law that calls us to deal with the stone. Now, being led by the Spirit of God, He might tell us to "pick up the stone and take it home". If we try to justify our actions by the Law, we can assert that there is no such Law. Yet, as sons of God, we are to obey the words of our Father in Heaven. If we do not pick up the stone and take it home we violate the bond of the Spirit we have in Christ.
Finally, there are three means in which God communicates to us: by His Spirit to our spirits; by the scriptures; and through another who caries the grace of God. All of these examples are found frequently in the scriptures. Let's deal with the last one: Paul (and others) directed people and whole churches to do certain things the Lord was showing him. Do we think the ones who directed others in the scriptures contrived them out of the air? Of course not, they were, like many wrote, being led by the Spirit of God and only did what they saw their Father doing.
Aaron56
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To preface, I agree with some of the content in your post, but I will respond here to what I don't agree with.
Your verbiage is in conflict with the verse you quoted: Hebrews 1:2 says He (the Father) "has spoken (aorist tense = not ongoing, but a completed event) in His Son", not speaks. So to use this verse to justify an ongoing phenomenon is incorrect. The point of Hebrews ch 1 is to display how Jesus is superior to the angels; unfortunately, this usage of verse 2 is out of context and misquoted.
How they taught was burdensome, not the Law itself.
The Scribes and Pharisees taught a mixture of the Law of God and man-made traditions/the Mishnah:
They added burden to their teaching of the Law by mixing it with their man-made commandments.
But the Commandments of God are not burdensome.
Your verbiage is in conflict with the verse you quoted: Hebrews 1:2 says He (the Father) "has spoken (aorist tense = not ongoing, but a completed event) in His Son", not speaks. So to use this verse to justify an ongoing phenomenon is incorrect. The point of Hebrews ch 1 is to display how Jesus is superior to the angels; unfortunately, this usage of verse 2 is out of context and misquoted.
How they taught was burdensome, not the Law itself.
The Scribes and Pharisees taught a mixture of the Law of God and man-made traditions/the Mishnah:
“Then some Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do Your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” And He answered and said to them, “Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? “For God said, ‘HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,’ and, ‘HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.’ “But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God,” he is not to honor his father or his mother.’ And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition. “You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you: ‘THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME. ‘BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.’ ”” (Matthew 15:1–9)
They added burden to their teaching of the Law by mixing it with their man-made commandments.
But the Commandments of God are not burdensome.
The things I wrote are elementary.
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."
This is continuing unabated.
"After the Holy Spirit had prevented them from speaking the word in the province of Asia..."
"...they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not permit them."
Here the Holy Spirit is actively guiding Paul and Timothy. There are many other examples in the Scriptures. There was no Law about traveling to those areas. However, they , being led by the Holy Spirit, knew not to go and did not go.
These are elementary principles of following the Lord.
"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well."
It is understood that the Law is burdensome. The apostolic council knew to limit their commands to keep from burdening the people.
Don't go under the law.
Galatians 4 makes it clear what we are to do with the Law “Cast out the bondwoman (the Law) and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman (the children of New Jerusalem, those in Christ).” So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
Cast them out! We probably shouldn't hang them on our walls as souvenirs, either.
This is elementary and not debatable. This is the last thing I will write to you regarding this topic.
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God."
This is continuing unabated.
"After the Holy Spirit had prevented them from speaking the word in the province of Asia..."
"...they tried to enter Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus would not permit them."
Here the Holy Spirit is actively guiding Paul and Timothy. There are many other examples in the Scriptures. There was no Law about traveling to those areas. However, they , being led by the Holy Spirit, knew not to go and did not go.
These are elementary principles of following the Lord.
"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well."
It is understood that the Law is burdensome. The apostolic council knew to limit their commands to keep from burdening the people.
Don't go under the law.
Galatians 4 makes it clear what we are to do with the Law “Cast out the bondwoman (the Law) and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman (the children of New Jerusalem, those in Christ).” So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
Cast them out! We probably shouldn't hang them on our walls as souvenirs, either.
This is elementary and not debatable. This is the last thing I will write to you regarding this topic.
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what if the word " evil" in the English translation is substandard to the description of what God has done or made that evil is the only word they came up with.
Evil in the Old Testament has many meanings one of them is to fashion or creates something that is unattainable by man what a wicked or evil thing you have done or bazaar. IN the new Testament evil can be an annoyance, a desire to injury Has God ever desired to injury people? man would call that evil, But God is not evil even if HIS action by man's standard appears to be.
Evil in the Old Testament has many meanings one of them is to fashion or creates something that is unattainable by man what a wicked or evil thing you have done or bazaar. IN the new Testament evil can be an annoyance, a desire to injury Has God ever desired to injury people? man would call that evil, But God is not evil even if HIS action by man's standard appears to be.
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