Are we saved by faith alone or is works necessary?

[Justified]

Lets go through that passage and see whose faith justifies. It is obviously the faith of Christ. How does one receive the faith of Christ? Believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. The believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

So your saying that we do not have to have any faith at all. Interesting. You do realize that what is given to to those that believe is the promise not faith. The promise is salvation through faith.

If you hold to it being the faith of Christ Jesus that saves then you have to hold to universalism.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."

So if it is Christ Jesus' faith that saves and He draws all people to Himself that means all people will be saved. That is why your view is errant. It is our faith in the faithful one that saves

 

[John146]

So your saying that we do not have to have any faith at all. Interesting. You do realize that what is given to to those that believe is the promise not faith. The promise is salvation through faith.

If you hold to it being the faith of Christ Jesus that saves then you have to hold to universalism.
Joh 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."

So if it is Christ Jesus' faith that saves and He draws all people to Himself that means all people will be saved. That is why your view is errant. It is our faith in the faithful one that saves

Of course I'm not saying we do not have faith. What I am saying is that our faith does not justify us before God, but the faith of Jesus Christ. Those who believe the gospel of Jesus Christ has His imputed faith that justifies.

Jesus, drawing all men unto himself is not salvation. A man can be drawn to the Lord but reject him. You are having a hard time understanding people.

 

[Blik]

That would be the faith of Abraham.

Abraham acted on his faith.

Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

We know this is truth, it is scripture. Yet it is also scripture that it isn't by belief saying Lord, Lord but by doing the will of the Lord. Both must be truth, how do you reconcile these two seemingly opposing truths?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Exactly why the believer is justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. He was completely obedient unto the Father even unto the death of the cross. His faith justifies.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Why are you returning to the works of the law argument again ?

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭

it has nothing to do with Moses law. It has to do with accepting the gospel.

I see though Jesus had faith so that means , you don’t need to do anything God said you need to do ? Is that your argument ?

 

[John146]

Why are you returning to the works of the law argument again ?

“The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭

it has nothing to do with Moses law. It has to do with accepting the gospel.

I see though Jesus had faith so that means , you don’t need to do anything God said you need to do ? Is that your argument ?

What is required of man is belief...believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s our part. Christ did all the work. I have His righteousness!

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What is required of man is belief...believe the gospel of Jesus Christ. That’s our part. Christ did all the work. I have His righteousness!

yes believe the gospel indeed and get baptized for remission of sins

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

we agree

 

[John146]

yes believe the gospel indeed and get baptized for remission of sins

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭

we agree

except for the water part...

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

We are clearly saved through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone.

if we only allow scripted that sounds like that and then reject the rest that sounds like this which is
Meant to give us a fuller understanding

the place you are quoting is fulfilled like this

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:21-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


instead of now disqualifying James shouldn’t we accept both so we actually understand how faith works

 

[Pilgrimshope]

except for the water part...

oh right getting baptized thats “A work “ I forgot we aren’t supposed to do anything God said will save us 😀

 

[Pilgrimshope]

if we only allow scripted that sounds like that and then reject the rest that sounds like this which is
Meant to give us a fuller understanding

the place you are quoting is fulfilled like this

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2:21-24, 26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


instead of now disqualifying James shouldn’t we accept both so we actually understand how faith works

It’s interesting the correlation between Abraham’s faith and ours

“Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his Lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

like Abraham believed first and then later his faith wrought his works and fulfilled that promise , it’s the same for us faith comes first like this

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Just like Abraham believed Gods word and then later his faith wrought his works

 

[John146]

oh right getting baptized thats “A work “ I forgot we aren’t supposed to do anything God said will save us 😀

A dip in the water saves us? Or the shed blood of Jesus? Are you applying Israel’s act of repentance to yourself?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

A dip in the water saves us? Or the shed blood of Jesus? Are you applying Israel’s act of repentance to yourself?

I’m applying what my lord and savior Jesus Christ said and what Paul and the apostles all did

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Are you thinking that’s the law of Moses ?

Paul

“And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭9:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Peter converting Gentiles who believed

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that isn’t Old Testament is it ? I could give you ten more examples but I don’t think your going to budge on this nothing applies with the grace book doctrines that sell so well

it creates the wall against anything even such a gift as baptism becomes in necassary to you folks once you get convinced to reject the word of Christ it’s a powerful thing

Grace never has been meant tommake us not need to hear and obey God it is meant to give us the occasion to come near and hear his word and let him give us faith so we start acting in his word and be saved

 

[Gthink]

Hi.
As soon as I read this I thought James and the importance of deeds. However, it's challenging and refreshing to hear about faith in itself being equally valuable.
I just think when we are totally beleaguered and downtrodden and deeds seem impossible, holding on to belief will deliver?

 

[glen55]

Titus 3:4-8 “But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

Does this mean that the faith they speak of is of the mind only, or does our faith have to include acting out our faith?

Scripture does not answer this question directly, but James tells us faith without works is dead and Christ tells us that being a Christian is not a matter of only how we think but includes what we do.

"Not everyone who says to Me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven."(NASB) Matt. 7:21

Paul knew it was all allegory and Imagination was God in man not classic theology Saul and all sons of man are blind about thinking like sons of God in them, Phil 2:5Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

 

[John146]

“Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Nope, but notice they already had received the Holy Spirit without water baptism. Baptism is an ordinance after salvation.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Hi.
As soon as I read this I thought James and the importance of deeds. However, it's challenging and refreshing to hear about faith in itself being equally valuable.
I just think when we are totally beleaguered and downtrodden and deeds seem impossible, holding on to belief will deliver?

you hit on the purpose of grace , it’s for when we can’t yet operate in the completion of faith , it’s never been for the purpose of ignoring what we’re being taught by Christ , but for the times we come up short and are found in need as we pursue him with all our heart

if we’re doing that , there’s never going to be any condemnation because heaven is our safety net for when we fail , we get into danger when we start ignoring what’s being taught to us for us to do , and start making grace what eliminates Gods word

if we believing the gospel and seeking after Christ of we fail a hundred times he’ll pick us up and heal our wounds , but if we refuse to hear and come after him we’re going to be left behind because that’s not really faith if we just decide to live for our own self and expect the things he promised for following after him

faith tells us Jesus is the one to follow and believe and pursue through our lives , and grace sin Thy re for when we fail and fall but we eventually get stronger walking legs and then grave becomes really clear as we are hearing and believing and actually have our hearts more into Christ than ourselves

he came to save us failires who will believe and follow the path he’s laid he’ll never abandon those who step forth even if we fall a lot

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Nope, but notice they already had received the Holy Spirit without water baptism. Baptism is an ordinance after salvation.

yeah because they need to be born of water and spirit to enter the kingdom Jesus preached

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Water baptism is for remission of sins one doesn’t replace the other that’s why they all did both they received the soirit then got baptized or they got baptized and then received the spirit either way both are there throughout

When You get baptized it’s an act of faith and means this

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6-7, 9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


they were believers so they believed and just acted like this

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:36-38, 41‬ ‭

notice no
One in scripture ever says that water baptism for remission has changed ? The same kingdom water for remission and spirit for new life and freedom from sin

 

[John146]

yeah because they need to be born of water and spirit to enter the kingdom Jesus preached

Two births, one of a woman (water), and one of the Holy Spirit (God).

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Two births, one of a woman (water), and one of the Holy Spirit (God).

lol yeah water baptism and spirit baptism couldn’t be what he’s saying comon’ brother really ?

of it was referring to being born of a woman lol they were all already born of a woman haha yet they all went into the water to get baptized for remission of their sins and they all received the Holy Ghost later and all that later converts still got water baltized for remission and your interpretation is that being born of water is referring to being born of the flesh ? Like every person is ?

do you see my point about when you get convinced against the word of Christ how it sends you in circles like a certain group who walked in circles for fourty years on the desert because they refused to hear Gods word ?

this is getting useless so I’m going to bow out of this one with you it’s not helping either of us. But god bless you on your path inhoe it leads to the same kingdom the lord spoke of

 

[John146]

lol yeah water baptism and spirit baptism couldn’t be what he’s saying comon’ brother really ?

of it was referring to being born of a woman lol they were all already born of a woman haha yet they all went into the water to get baptized for remission of their sins and they all received the Holy Ghost later and all that later converts still got water baltized for remission and your interpretation is that being born of water is referring to being born of the flesh ? Like every person is ?

do you see my point about when you get convinced against the word of Christ how it sends you in circles like a certain group who walked in circles for fourty years on the desert because they refused to hear Gods word ?

this is getting useless so I’m going to bow out of this one with you it’s not helping either of us. But god bless you on your path inhoe it leads to the same kingdom the lord spoke of

You are comparing what was required for the Jews for repentance to receive their Messiah vs what one must believe in order to have everlasting life in the Church Age. You need to learn to rightly divide the word of truth.