Poll on faith without works

[TMS]

I think you are saying that faith without works Is dead to men.

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

God knows everything before we do. So works are not what saves us. But if faith doesn't change your actions and your heart then it isn't real faith.

Eg ...if i have faith that God will do whats best for me and give me eternal life. Will i be afraid of death and will i act (do works) in ways that reflect the faith i have.
If i don't show any works that reflect the faith, my faith may need improving.

Faith and works are joined..
Like an Apple tree that bears Apples.

 

[Stormela]

Thank you!
How beautiful!
I never though about Jesus' feeling of abandonment and lonliness.
Amazing Grace, Amazing Love![/QU

Thank you!
How beautiful!
I never though about Jesus' feeling of abandonment and lonliness.
Amazing Grace, Amazing Love!

Good morning Gardenias, Thank you and nice to meet you. Have a blessed weekend

 

[Mindwrencher]

"And without faith it is impossible to please God" Hebrews 11:6a

The criminal on the cross next to Jesus believed in Him and was promised paradise. The theif had no works. But he had faith.

Luke 23...

39 One of the criminals who were hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” 40 But the other rebuked him, saying, “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 And we indeed justly, for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” 42 And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” 43 And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

So I voted faith without works is alive to God.

Some would argue that pleading with Jesus is in fact a work. A “work” is simply something that one “does”. Calvinists have a serious problem dealing with “works”. They basically believe that a man is incapable of doing anything in the entire “process” of being saved. They pick and choose which things are “works”. Confession that Jesus is Lord, the Son of God, the Messiah…might not be considered a work by Calvinists, but it is certainly something that is done by speaking. But a Calvinist might define “speaking” as something that really doesn’t qualify as a “work”. James says “Faith without works is dead.”(James 2:17) But a Calvinist might differentiate whether it is dead to men, or dead to God, and rationalize that works have nothing to do with salvation. So they define everything related to salvation as “non-work”, except baptism. Calvinists call Baptism a work, whereas faith, repentance, confession, prayer and whatever else BESIDES baptism is a “non-work”. See how that works. Doctrines are great when one can pick and choose how words and passages can be defined.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Faith without works is dead. Works are evidence of our faith. We're saved by grace through faith, but faith is completed by our works.

"You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;"—James 2:22

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Faith without works is dead. Works are evidence of our faith. We're saved by grace through faith, but faith is completed by our works.

"You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;"—James 2:22

Would you say that works whether It be physical or spiritual Is faith? IMO the thief on the cross repented but he didn't do spiritual work at that time.Some say that when he believed on JESUS he did works,spiritual work.Would you agree the thief on the cross did physical works or spiritual works?

And If you don't believe he did any kind of works whether physical or spiritual was his believing without doing works dead to "GOD?

 

[ResidentAlien]

A work is simply an outward expression, it can take many forms. The thief said "remember me when you come into your kingdom." That was his "work" or outward expression of the faith he had in his heart.

Romans 10:10 says, "For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

 

[Ogom]

Some would argue that pleading with Jesus is in fact a work. A “work” is simply something that one “does”. Calvinists have a serious problem dealing with “works”. They basically believe that a man is incapable of doing anything in the entire “process” of being saved. They pick and choose which things are “works”. Confession that Jesus is Lord, the Son of God, the Messiah…might not be considered a work by Calvinists, but it is certainly something that is done by speaking. But a Calvinist might define “speaking” as something that really doesn’t qualify as a “work”. James says “Faith without works is dead.”(James 2:17) But a Calvinist might differentiate whether it is dead to men, or dead to God, and rationalize that works have nothing to do with salvation. So they define everything related to salvation as “non-work”, except baptism. Calvinists call Baptism a work, whereas faith, repentance, confession, prayer and whatever else BESIDES baptism is a “non-work”. See how that works. Doctrines are great when one can pick and choose how words and passages can be defined.

dis- believing in works actually voilates the spirit of the 4th? Commandment -- which if/ when at any time any command is violated ---- then, at that time ---- the one violating any of the commands (in spirit or by deed against the spirit and tuth of/from God/ Spirit) ---- is at that time ---- not dwelling in obedience to the spirit /God (lgwayh // lynays) ....... i.e. is not dwelling in agape and is not believing in Christ (way, truth, life) at that moment in time. they are fallen out of Faith, for faith in Truth (Christ) equals resting/ walking in Truth (Christ). "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life". ..... Christ.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Now, Rightly Divided, Approved Unto God, Brings out the understanding of the NO Contradiction Word of Truth! Amen?

Rightly Divided - "Brief" Intro!

"Prophecy/Law" {earthly} gospel of the kingdom, ISRAEL "Prominent!" {past/future}

Salvation is by “faith + works” = believe AND be water baptized…

ie: “faith WITHOUT works is DEAD!” (James 1:1 ; James 2:17)

Rightly Divided ( 2 Timothy 2:15 KJB! ) From "Things That DIFFER":

"Mystery/GRACE!" {Heavenly!} Gospel Of GRACE, Jew And Gentile "Equal!"
{Current, Today!} for The Body Of CHRIST!

By GRACE Through faith are ye {Eternally} SAVED!
(1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)

“faith WITHOUT works Is ALIVE!”

More Rightly Divided "studies" here:
God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

 

[seed_time_harvest]

God knows everything before we do. So works are not what saves us. But if faith doesn't change your actions and your heart then it isn't real faith.

Eg ...if i have faith that God will do whats best for me and give me eternal life. Will i be afraid of death and will i act (do works) in ways that reflect the faith i have.
If i don't show any works that reflect the faith, my faith may need improving.

Faith and works are joined..
Like an Apple tree that bears Apples.

True faith and works are joined —->for man but the question Is not directed towards man the question IS Is faith without works dead to GOD?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

A work is simply an outward expression, it can take many forms. The thief said "remember me when you come into your kingdom." That was his "work" or outward expression of the faith he had in his heart.

Romans 10:10 says, "For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

So then you believe the thief on the cross did spiritual work by believing and that means that If he hadn’t done spiritual WORK faith without WORKS Is dead to GOD,right?

 

[1ofthem]

So then you believe the thief on the cross did spiritual work by believing and that means that If he hadn’t done spiritual WORK faith without WORKS Is dead to GOD,right?

Why are you playing with the wording like this?

God judges the heart. He knows if we are saved/have faith or not. No, he doesn't need works to prove anything to him. He doesn't need any of us...we need him.

I'm going to go with what scripture says and leave it at that.... Faith without works is dead. If there is no change and someone only has a belief and not true saving faith....then their faith/belief is dead....It seems simple to me.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Why are you playing with the wording like this?

God judges the heart. He knows if we are saved/have faith or not. No, he doesn't need works to prove anything to him. He doesn't need any of us...we need him.

I'm going to go with what scripture says and leave it at that.... Faith without works is dead. If there is no change and someone only has a belief and not true saving faith....then their faith/belief is dead....It seems simple to me.

amen to that the thief on the cross believes the gospels of the kingdom he asks Jesus to remember him when he comes into it , and all signs say he was baptized also those are the requirements and just because he was a thief doesn’t mean he wasn’t kind to the poor forgiving and merciful to others doesn’t mean he didn’t have a lot of good he’s done

I say he was baptized most likely because of this

“And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we don’t have a witness that this guy has done that but the indications is most of. It all we’re getting baptized

The guy believed and I’m sure was repenting pretty hard as he hung there on the cross beside Jesus for his sins

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Why are you playing with the wording like this?

God judges the heart. He knows if we are saved/have faith or not. No, he doesn't need works to prove anything to him. He doesn't need any of us...we need him.

I'm going to go with what scripture says and leave it at that.... Faith without works is dead. If there is no change and someone only has a belief and not true saving faith....then their faith/belief is dead....It seems simple to me.

Make up your mind,did he do spiritual work,physical work are no work,It's not a trick question.That's what the poll question should have been.

1.)Did the thief on the cross do spiritual works
2.)Did the thief on the cross do physical works
3.)Did the thief on the cross do any works

 

[1ofthem]

amen to that the thief on the cross believes the gospels of the kingdom he asks Jesus to remember him when he comes into it , and all signs say he was baptized also those are the requirements and just because he was a thief doesn’t mean he wasn’t kind to the poor forgiving and merciful to others doesn’t mean he didn’t have a lot of good he’s done

I say he was baptized most likely because of this

“And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we don’t have a witness that this guy has done that but the indications is most of. It all we’re getting baptized

The guy believed and I’m sure was repenting pretty hard as he hung there on the cross beside Jesus for his sins

Thanks for the reply. I've been praying about it before answering.

I've not even taken Baptism into account because the scripture doesn't say anything about him being baptized so I don't want to infer anything like that.

I think the main thing to take from the scripture on this is the thief had true saving faith. That is where the change came in. He believed and asked that the Lord remember him when he went into his kingdom. He didn't do like the other thief and ask that Jesus save his life and save himself.

See the other thief wasn't concerned with the will of God or anything spiritual...he was only concerned with Jesus saving his own life. He didn't have faith in Jesus and was saying pretty much the only way he would believe is if the Lord would do a miracle and save his earthly life.

The thief that went to paradise had a true saving faith that brought about a change in him.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

amen to that the thief on the cross believes the gospels of the kingdom he asks Jesus to remember him when he comes into it , and all signs say he was baptized also those are the requirements and just because he was a thief doesn’t mean he wasn’t kind to the poor forgiving and merciful to others doesn’t mean he didn’t have a lot of good he’s done

I say he was baptized most likely because of this

“And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we don’t have a witness that this guy has done that but the indications is most of. It all we’re getting baptized

The guy believed and I’m sure was repenting pretty hard as he hung there on the cross beside Jesus for his sins

1.)Did the thief on the cross do spiritual works
2.)Did the thief on the cross do physical works
3.)Did the thief on the cross do any works

 

[1ofthem]

Make up your mind,did he do spiritual work,physical work are no work,It's not a trick question.That's what the poll question should have been.

1.)Did the thief on the cross do spiritual works
2.)Did the thief on the cross do physical works
3.)Did the thief on the cross do any works

Quit playing around with the wording of scripture. Seriously, it is not hard to understand. I have explained my view on it several times. So I'm not sure what you don't understand and I am also not sure why you want to play around with the wording of scripture.

If someone has true saving faith then there is a change in that person.

The thief on the cross did have a work he testified with his mouth...showing his faith that Jesus was the Christ in front of all that stood by. Did that save him? No.....that was just the fruit of true saving faith.

Let's not add things to scripture that aren't there, or try to reword it to come up with some tricky question....What is the purpose of that? All that does is cause confusion.

We know that we have to take the whole word of God together. We can't cast off parts we don't like or try to reword them to fit our own agenda....It is what it is and if we take just a little time in prayer and study God reveals it to us. We don't have to twist it around. It all fits.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

It seems that the majority of members agree that faith Without doing any works Is dead to GOD but GOD accounted Abraham righteous before he did any works.

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

 

[1ofthem]

It seems that the majority of members agree that faith Without doing any works Is dead to GOD but GOD accounted Abraham righteous before he did any works.

Romans 4:1-2
King James Version

1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath [whereof] to glory; but not before God.

Because Abraham had true saving faith. Abraham was changed/different from other fleshly men because of that. God knows all. He knows what is in the heart.

God is going to be judging us by our works. Let's take some more of the scripture into account. How do you deal with and justify those scriptures in your mind? What work is it that he will judge? What is the work of God? If someone truly believes and puts faith in God then what happens? Doesn't he give them a new heart and take away the stony heart? Aren't they born again of the Spirit? Do we die to ourselves and become a new person in Christ?

Yeah, men may not see this because they can't see the heart, but GOD can see and knows all things. He knows when we have true saving faith. He sees the work in our hearts because he is actually the one that is doing the work. Faith without works is dead. Faith in God brings about a change.

Now if someone only has a mere belief in the Lord not actually willing to put their faith and trust in him for whatever reason and/or is only doing it to get some type of reward, or praise of men or anything like that....then they are not changed...they don't have a new heart and God is not working in them.

Once again true saving faith brings about a change....it's really simple. No need to pit any scripture against another one.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

A work is simply an outward expression, it can take many forms. The thief said "remember me when you come into your kingdom." That was his "work" or outward expression of the faith he had in his heart.

Romans 10:10 says, "For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved."

Are you are saying that his outward expression was work,I guess spiritual work?
Could I say then that you are saying that faith without physical or spiritual work Is dead to GOD?
I'm not talking about living holy In day to day life showing your faith By your works to men like Apostle James was talking about,I'm talking about does GOD have to see your works before he accounts you righteous

 

[Ogom]

1.)Did the thief on the cross do spiritual works
2.)Did the thief on the cross do physical works
3.)Did the thief on the cross do any works

should we be overly 'hung up' on one thing, to the detriment of our souls?