Saved by Water
- Thread starter Wansvic
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You just lost your side of the debate.
The passage is singular. "Baptize in the NAME of"..... Not names of. There are not three as the scriptures testify. God is holy spirit and God was Jesus incarnate. All was God. And since God tells us all that exists is of and from God and no thing that exists is of any other, there is only The Word that made himself flesh to dwell among us.
Paul did baptize in his early ministry. But don't forget the letter where he said he was glad he doesn't baptize anymore.
When Paul baptized he baptized not in the name of three, but in the name of the one.
Romans 6:3 ‘
“Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into YAHU’SHUAH were baptised into His Death?”
Paul also said that there is only One Master – One Faith – One Baptism Ephesians 4.
It's the tri-theist doctrine that is paganism. Jesus never taught tri-theism. Tritheism has a distinct history, after Jesus, for entering the Bible.
I believe you are entitled to believe you work for your salvation and baptism of the holy spirit that is God.
I believe Peter and what he said in Acts 2.
We are saved the moment we believe.
If someone accepts Christ as savior while in church, leaves the service and is in a car accident and dies, that person did not die unredeemed. They did not die dead in their sins.
Jesus died for us that we may live.
Salvation isn't a work in progress. It is a grace filled work that was accomplished on the cross.
It's not in the speaking of certain sounds...or that is witch craft...or like a child..but not the right kind of child...buy the power of bunny rabbits..if you have the right motive the laws = rules will take care of them self...the motive is that we r in love with god!
Very FEW, in fact. And he even made a POINT about that.
How come you don't understand that Paul was showing that salvation is from believing the gospel, NOT being baptized in water?
No, he made a clear point about the FACT that he "wasn't sent to baptize".
Since you like to point out your discernment skills in reading Scripture, you've got to deal with that. An evangelist who says he wasn't sent to baptize, but to preach the gospel.
If salvation requires baptism, that's a read odd thing to say.
Since we're talking about Paul and what he said about his own ministry, let's ask Paul what MUST we DO to be saved, ok?
Acts 16-
30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.”
Well, there you have it. From Paul himself. Why don't you believe Paul's answer to the jailer?
Sure. AFTER they believed and received the Holy Spirit.
The "message of the gospel" that saves doesn't "include a command to be water baptized".
I have just recently addressed that verse. Paul was speaking about the present tense of salvation.
Here are the 3 tenses of salvation:
1. Past tense salvation – justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
2. Present tense salvation – sanctification (saved from the power of sin) this is about spiritual growth
3. Future tense salvation – glorification (saved from the presence of sin)
There are a great many counterfeit teachings out there. Some intend to deny Christs teachings in full while claiming to preach Christ.
1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
You couldn't be more wrong. God's name is plural in many verses.
Explain why Jesus was only talking to Himself when He prayed to His Father.
Throughout the gospel accounts, Jesus prayed to His Father many many times. So you argue that He was only talking to Himself, huh?
Also, in Genesis 1 and 3 we actually SEE the personal pronoun PLURAL when God speaks.
Yeah, sure. Jesus was just talking to Himself here, huh.
Explain how Jesus is the Son AND Father.
These are all Jesus Himself, huh?
You are very confused if you think so.
But, whatever. Please explain 2 Cor 13:14 - May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
Was Paul just stuttering here? I see Trinity. But what do you see?
I can see how you could have made that assumption. Sometimes it does take me a while to respond. Like now. I still have a lot of posts to respond to but have to get off for now.
As for your comment about my directing you to the Internet. I would like to point out that historical evidence concerning the change made to water baptism cannot be found in the bible. What we can see from the word is that the apostles consistently baptized in the name of Jesus. This makes it clear that the historical change went against what was actually in the word.
Have a great night.
Oh, clearly stuff is made up. And then it's pushed and pushed.19 Go [therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
laugh...perhaps cry....just another smh....here Jesus instructs his disciples to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.....all three being imperative to salvation....yet wansvic denies it and continues with Jesus only
BUT the key to this refusal may be in the fact that wansvic has not denied being ONENESS PENTECOSTAL
if wansvic is indeed Oneness, as has been hinted at by him/her, that explains baptize in Jesus name only, as Oneness will tell you that JESUS is the name of the Lord
you can't make this stuff up....wait a minute...it is though
Someone makes an accusation against someone else. That person accused chooses not to take the bait. The accuser(s) then insist because their target didn't deny their accusation they must then be that which is accused.
Those are the Satanic tactics that were employed by the Inquisition. "WITCH!" Nothing the accused said saved them. They were tortured so they'd confess to the accusation against them. If they refused because of course it was a damnable lie against their character, that meant they were guilty because they were covering for their master, Satan. If they confessed because they wrongly imagined that would get the Satanic sadistic torturers to stop, they were mistaken. They were then executed, depending on where in Europe this was by guillotine, hanging, or by fire. The fire was said to be employed to burn away their sins in this life so they're damned Satanic Witchcraft soul wouldn't suffer hell in the next.
There's nothing wrong or illegal about being Oneness Pentecostal. There's nothing wrong with being Seventh Day Adventist. There's nothing wrong with being Baptist. There's nothing wrong with being in Christ and under any denominational title.
What is wrong is when someone accuses being any denomination is wrong, and that imagined charge then is suppose to disqualify the person targeted for the slander as being in Christ.
And anyone who employs those deplorable tactics against Christians, thinking their personal theology is therein superior, is a shame.
When God speaks and uses the first person pronoun PLURAL, I HAVE to believe that there are 3 co-equal Persons, which we call the Godhead, or Trinity.
I take it you are a non-Trinitarian then. {edit} I realized after posting this that I was addressing wansvic.
So, you have Jesus praying to Himself a lot. A whole lot, even.
Matt 11:27 - “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
Matt 20:23 - Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”
Mat 26:39 - Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
Matt 26:42 - He went away a second time and prayed, “My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done.”
Matt 26:53 - Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels?
Luke 9:26 - Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.
Luke 10:22 - “All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows who the Son is except the Father, and no one knows who the Father is except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.”
Luke 22:29 - And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me,
Luke 23:46 - Jesus called out with a loud voice, “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit.” When he had said this, he breathed his last.
Luke 24:49 - I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high.”
John 5:17 - In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”
John 8:16 - But if I do judge, my decisions are true, because I am not alone. I stand with the Father, who sent me.
John 8:18 - I am one who testifies for myself; my other witness is the Father, who sent me.”
John 8:28 - So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.
John 8:42 - Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.
John 10:15,17 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father —and I lay down my life for the sheep.
The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life —only to take it up again.
John 10:18 - No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”
John 10:37 - Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father.
John 12:49 - For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken.
This is not an exhaustive list of verses proving that Jesus and His Father aren't the same.
But if your view were correct, then all we see is Jesus talking to Himself a whole lot.
In fact, these verses are meaningless if Jesus is the Father and the Spirit.
Wow. So we have more than one non Trinitarian here. Well, go take a look at post #854.
But go ahead and argue that Jesus was talking to Himself a whole lot. And all those verses I quoted (not exhaustive by any means) need to be explained if Jesus is the Son, the Father, and the Spirit.
Start with Genesis 1 and 3 and explain the use of the personal pronoun PLURALS when God is quoted.
FreeGrace2 said:
You couldn't be more wrong. God's name is plural in many verses.
Explain why Jesus was only talking to Himself when He prayed to His Father......
So, no, it doesn't explain the idiocy of Jesus doing so much talking to Himself.
non trinitarianism is one weird nonsense.
You couldn't be more wrong. God's name is plural in many verses.
Explain why Jesus was only talking to Himself when He prayed to His Father......
For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people.
So, no, it doesn't explain the idiocy of Jesus doing so much talking to Himself.
non trinitarianism is one weird nonsense.
S
SophieT
Guest
I understand you cannot baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit because you do not believe in them
you believe in something called ONENESS which means you do not believe in the Trinity so you cannot accept anything that states otherwise than what you believe
this is why you cannot accept anything that shows how wrong you are about baptism. it's so simple when what you actually believe finally comes to light
now feel free to tell us you are not a Oneness Pentecostal adherent. I have said this to you before and you have not denied it, so, for the benefit of the uninitiated, let's discuss Oneness Pentecostalism because that is really what you are promoting and water regeneration is more of a distraction from the main event
There is Only One God
Oneness Pentecostals declare that the Godhead consists of only one Person and deny the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. They maintain that the only real “person” in the Godhead is Jesus. Thus, they are often referred to as the “Jesus Only” Movement. They maintain that God exists in two modes, as the Father in heaven and as Jesus the Son on earth. Nevertheless, they are the same person, not two separate persons. The Holy Spirit is not regarded as a person at all, merely a manifestation of Jesus’ power or a synonym for Him. Several verses are quoted to establish this view such as Colossians 2:9 (NKJV), “For in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.” Oneness theologians would argue that if the Father and the Son were separate, then the Godhead could not fully dwell in Christ. They also look to Matthew 28:19 to affirm their views that Jesus commanded His disciples to baptize in the “name” (singular) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
boy howdy does that ^^^^^^^ever look familiar and just about what you say on every page
let's discuss your persuasions from the actual beliefs of your sect which go further than water regeneration
and again, just say you are no Oneness Pentecostal even though you have several times alluded to the fact that Jesus is the name of God and we should only baptize in Jesus name because there is no other name
S
SophieT
Guest
more on the beliefs of Oneness Pentecostals
Jesus is said to have two natures: human and divine. Thus, when He died, only His human nature died. Also, when Jesus prayed, it was His human nature praying to His divine nature – not to a separate Father in heaven. As mentioned, the Oneness Pentecostal view of God is similar to the ancient heresy of Modalism. Modalism is the belief that one God existed in time in three distinct modes of being: first as the Father in heaven; second, bodily as the Son on earth; and finally as the Holy Spirit.
The Bible indeed teaches the existence of only one God (Deut. 6:4). Nonetheless, historic Christianity maintains that the doctrine of the Trinity (or tri-unity of God) is taught in Scripture. The Bible teaches that the one God exists eternally in three separate and distinct persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Colossians 2:9 does not teach that the totality of the Godhead was in the body of Jesus, but rather that Jesus embodied the totality of the divine nature and God is totally revealed in Him. If the Father and the Son are the same person, then the Oneness teachers have a difficult job explaining how the Father and the Son can love each other (See Matt. 3:17; 17:5; John 3:35; 5:20; 2 Pet. 1:17), talk to each other (see John 11:41-42; 12:28; 17:1-26), and know each other (see Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22; John 7:29).
Matthew 28:19 clearly reflects the Trinitarian concept that the “name” (authority and characteristics) of the one God is incorporated in the three Persons of the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (see 1 Cor. 8:6; 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 13:14; 1 Pet. 1:2). (See the following verses affirming the personality and deity of the Holy Spirit: Luke 12:12; John 15:26; Acts 5:3-10; 13:2-4; 1 Cor. 12:11; Eph. 4:30; Heb. 3:7.)
Salvation
The Oneness Pentecostal movements generally teach that to receive and maintain salvation, a person must adhere to four essential requirements.
1. A person must have faith in Jesus Only. Oneness teachers would agree that salvation requires putting one’s full faith in the Jesus of Oneness doctrine. That is, the Jesus who is the totality of the Godhead, who died on the cross as make atonement for sin, and who rose again from the dead.
2. A person must repent and be baptized by immersion in the “Name of Jesus.” Acts 2:38 is used as evidence that the early church baptized only in the name of Jesus. They maintain that baptism in the Trinitarian formula is invalid since it implies belief in three gods. They claim Matthew 28:19 is not to be taken as a command to baptize in that formula.
3. A person must speak in tongues. Like most traditional Pentecostals and Charismatics, Oneness Pentecostals teach that speaking in tongues is a gift to be exercised today. However, unlike most traditionalists, the Oneness movements maintain that speaking in tongues is not just a post-conversion indicator of the filling or baptism of the Holy Spirit, but an essential ingredient in the salvation experience itself. In other words, if a person has never spoken in tongues, he or she is not saved!
Jesus is said to have two natures: human and divine. Thus, when He died, only His human nature died. Also, when Jesus prayed, it was His human nature praying to His divine nature – not to a separate Father in heaven. As mentioned, the Oneness Pentecostal view of God is similar to the ancient heresy of Modalism. Modalism is the belief that one God existed in time in three distinct modes of being: first as the Father in heaven; second, bodily as the Son on earth; and finally as the Holy Spirit.
The Bible indeed teaches the existence of only one God (Deut. 6:4). Nonetheless, historic Christianity maintains that the doctrine of the Trinity (or tri-unity of God) is taught in Scripture. The Bible teaches that the one God exists eternally in three separate and distinct persons of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
Colossians 2:9 does not teach that the totality of the Godhead was in the body of Jesus, but rather that Jesus embodied the totality of the divine nature and God is totally revealed in Him. If the Father and the Son are the same person, then the Oneness teachers have a difficult job explaining how the Father and the Son can love each other (See Matt. 3:17; 17:5; John 3:35; 5:20; 2 Pet. 1:17), talk to each other (see John 11:41-42; 12:28; 17:1-26), and know each other (see Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22; John 7:29).
Matthew 28:19 clearly reflects the Trinitarian concept that the “name” (authority and characteristics) of the one God is incorporated in the three Persons of the Godhead: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (see 1 Cor. 8:6; 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 1:21-22; 13:14; 1 Pet. 1:2). (See the following verses affirming the personality and deity of the Holy Spirit: Luke 12:12; John 15:26; Acts 5:3-10; 13:2-4; 1 Cor. 12:11; Eph. 4:30; Heb. 3:7.)
Salvation
The Oneness Pentecostal movements generally teach that to receive and maintain salvation, a person must adhere to four essential requirements.
1. A person must have faith in Jesus Only. Oneness teachers would agree that salvation requires putting one’s full faith in the Jesus of Oneness doctrine. That is, the Jesus who is the totality of the Godhead, who died on the cross as make atonement for sin, and who rose again from the dead.
2. A person must repent and be baptized by immersion in the “Name of Jesus.” Acts 2:38 is used as evidence that the early church baptized only in the name of Jesus. They maintain that baptism in the Trinitarian formula is invalid since it implies belief in three gods. They claim Matthew 28:19 is not to be taken as a command to baptize in that formula.
3. A person must speak in tongues. Like most traditional Pentecostals and Charismatics, Oneness Pentecostals teach that speaking in tongues is a gift to be exercised today. However, unlike most traditionalists, the Oneness movements maintain that speaking in tongues is not just a post-conversion indicator of the filling or baptism of the Holy Spirit, but an essential ingredient in the salvation experience itself. In other words, if a person has never spoken in tongues, he or she is not saved!