How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[GaryA]

prophetic is not it is forth-telling and foretelling Jesus in John 14:1-4 was not symbolic it was descriptive of an event to really happen.

literal, and symbolism and prophetic can all work together contextually. Though Jesus spoke using what all Jewish would have known in john 14: 1-4 as a wedding to reinforce the truth of HIS death and resurrection by saying I go and will return to RECIEVE you to myself IF it were not the truth I would not have told you this. Context.

The mentioned passage does not say or indicate anything regarding a pre-trib rapture or special trip to heaven - that "connection" is only made in the minds of those who want so badly to believe it.

 

[Aaron56]

The mentioned passage does not say or indicate anything regarding a pre-trib rapture or special trip to heaven - that "connection" is only made in the minds of those who want so badly to believe it.

You are correct.

I‘ve decided to leave them be for the mean time. They’re starting to disagree with relevant scriptures.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[ @GaryA ] ^ the passage states "...that wherever I am [/IN WHAT PLACE / AT WHICHEVER SPOT I am] there ye may be also"

(so I guess that would depend on "wherever" He is, in the context of whatever verse is speaking of these... [and wherever those be, it's most certainly "WITH HIM," wouldn't you say??])

 

[Gideon300]

No one taught a pre-trib rapture until John Darby, and Anglican preacher, in the mid 1800s. So the teaching is relatively new. Now, being new does not necessarily mean a teaching is defunct: while God never changes, He reveals knowledge and understanding in a progressive manner. Things that we have not contemplated before, suddenly come alive to us in the scriptures. So, while the ideas are new to us, they were always established in the mind of God.

But the manner is which things are "revealed" should be examined. So let's look at the manner in which the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture came to be a Baptist staple.

Dwight Young, professor emeritus at Brandeis University of Near Eastern and Judaic Studies, personally corresponded with a friend of mine several years ago. My friend was a young lawyer ( as an aside, had George Bush Senior been elected for a second term, there is a good possibility that my friend would have been chosen as a state supreme court judge.) Dwight was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary at the same time Hal Lindsey studied there, so this is more than 50 years ago or so. They were graduate students.

Dwight said the professors were discussing Darbyism, and whether or not it was a valid theology. This graduate student, Hal Lindsey, wrote a master’s thesis on the subject of this form of dispensationalism and the rapture. He later turned that thesis into a book called The Late Great Planet Earth. Now some of you may not know about this book, but it was a runaway bestseller. It made a lot of money. According to Dwight, that is where the Baptists made the switch. They saw that there was a market for this doctrine, and they ran with it. Dwight later moved up to and was a professor of biblical studies, biblical languages at Brandeis University, from which he retired, and he was in a state of retirement when my friend met him. So, 50 years from the writing of a master's thesis, the teaching is so entrenched in the Baptist circles you would think it was the gospel.

Historically, nobody ever thought of this doctrine before Darby. But once he popularized it in the context of dispensationalism, meaning things wrap up within blocks of time, people began to embrace it because they did not have to trust the Holy Spirit. If you are going to have any measure of understanding of prophetic Scripture, the end from the beginning and where we are at this point in time, you are going to have to walk in the Spirit. He is the One who wrote the Book; He is the One who is perfectly capable of interpreting it. And the folly of logic and reason and man-made constructs, such as dispensationalism, will lead you to increasing folly, such as the rapture.

God knows the end from the beginning, and the greatest moment of the Body of Christ is in the midst of the darkness in Revelation. That darkness has no potential to blunt our display of the glory of God, the radiance of God’s glory, or to represent Him exactly. It has no ability to influence that at all. This is the time for the glory of what God has been doing, when He established the heavens and the earth for the purpose of establishing a corporate man in creation so that He might be seen in creation as who He is. He is on a path wherein not only will He show who He is in all of His glory through the corporate body, but He will bring the enemy to judgment as well.

Grace and Peace,

Aaron56

Darby was one of the founders of the Plymouth Brethren. He was right about the corruption of the Anglican Church of the time. Another leading light in the Brethren was George Mueller who built orphanages.

Darby lost the plot somewhere and founded the Exclusive Brethren. They became so exclusive that even God was not welcome.

Darby produced a good translation of the New Testament.

It's easy to criticise and judge interpretations. People believe certain doctrines for a reason. One scholar believes the a-millennial point of view, another the historicist. Me, I like Corrie ten Boom. She's a pan-millennialist. It will all pan out in the end.

The reality is that we don't know for sure. All will become clear one day. Try telling Christians in North Korea, Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan that we are headed for tribulation. They are going through it now. North Korean Christians could not be treated any worse than they are now.

 

[ewq1938]

My question to you is: who is it that you say (Scripture tells us) "ENTERS" the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom upon His "RETURN"??


The promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, variously known as:


--"the age [singular] to come" (immediately follows "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"--Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50--when the angels will "REAP"; found in Matt12:32 just prior to Jesus speaking to His disciples about "the age [singular] to come");

--"the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" (Matt25:1-13; Matt22:9-14);

--the "meal [G347]" (Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" ...THEN the meal [G347]; parallel Matt24:42-51; also as found in Matt8:11 and its parallel);

--"the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (too many to list, but all as found in Matthew);

--the "BLESSED" time (Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED is the one who waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days"; Found also in about 8 other passages all speaking to the same "setting"/context [their ENTRANCE INTO the earthly MK age]--Rev19:9 [distinct from 19:7]; Matt24:45-47 parallel Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44); Matt25:31-34; Rev16:15-16 Armageddon time-slot / 2nd Coming to the earth; and MORE...)

--etc... (that's a good start )






____________

According to your viewpoint (if I understand yours aright), you do NOT believe it is the "saints / believers / the righteous / the BLESSED" who ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children) commencing upon His "RETURN" there, but [...who?? other than this??]






[may the reader compare Matthew 24:37 (2nd Coming to the earth passages) with Daniel 2:35c alongside Gen9:1 "and FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth"]

Your posting style is unreadable.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ [ @ewq1938 ' s Post #65 ]

According to your viewpoint, if I understand yours aright, you do not believe it is the saints / believers / the righteous / the blessed only who enter the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom in their mortal bodies--capable of reproducing, bearing children--the MK commencing upon His return to the earth...

... so who?? other than this??


Do you believe it is those of the nations who have not come to faith in Christ prior to His return? The unsaved? That's who enters the kingdom age?

 

[Evmur]

If you are referring to the Lord's Return/the Resurrection/ and the Rapture - you are correct.

If you are referring to pre-trib rapture -- you are incorrect. According to the very words of the Lord Jesus Christ and the Apostles.

pre-trib rapture never came out of our Lord's mouth nor the Apostles.

The serpent - yes!

Indeed Jesus taught post trib rap for He says
"AFTER the tribulation of those days .... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory ..."

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Could someone give me a brief and simple summary of the different Tribulation theories and why it's such a hot topic in the U.S ? Just the basics rather than opinions. We don't seem to cover that in the UK denominations that I've been involved with, i've asked them about it but they don't seem to have heard of "pre-trib" ect. I tried reading the posts but it hasn't really clarified it for me, i guess because i'm unclear about the different basic views ?

Hi, I'm in the UK. Although the pretrib thing allegedlly started here, it seems to have stuck mainly in the US.
Largely because it is marketed very well on telly and it appeals to a comfortable church.
It isn't taught outside the Western church apart from some small pockets where missionaries have introduced it.

These are all doctrines of men. The pretrib provoked the need for other doctrines in an attempt to correct the pretrib error.
No one teaches that the saints are subject to the wrath of God.

The bible teaches of the 2nd coming of Jesus in glory and the resurrection event that occurs at that time. Clearly stated.
The pretrib position has done it's best to confuse the church by framing the transformation of the living as though it were
something wholly separate from the resurrection. The Biblical position is that we are ALL resurrected.
The dead receive their immortal bodies first then the still living are changed together with them. 1Thess 4:13-18

Pretrib doctrine is focussed on SELF and is largely concerned with entitlements of a divided "church".
The Bible is focussed on Jesus and his revelation to all mankind. God's taking of the earth is woven deep into prophecy.
It didn't just begin with the New Testament. Most of the detail of Jesus' return is found in the OT.

I find too much study of all the conflicting positions on timing of "rapture" can distract from actual Bible study.
If you aren't careful, you can end up well grounded in a lot of various religious doctrine and still have little
understanding of prophecy.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Matthew 24:26-27 "26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."


Matthew 24:30 "30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."


Why does verse 26 say "you"; but verse 30 says "they"... when both verses are speaking of "the coming of the Son of man" (His Second Coming to the earth designation). Are these believers who are "mourning" His Second Coming with power and great glory?




[note to the readers: "tribes / tribe" in scripture some 297x-plus, never speaks of anyone outside of the 12 tribes of Israel--why would this suddenly change for this context (v.30)??]

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Where in scripture does it say Two Returns of our Lord?

Verses like this should settle the matter. We await the second coming only.

Hebrews 9 (NASB)
27 And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Regarding Hebrews 9:27-28 -

--re: the word "shall appear [passive; G3708]": out of the TOTAL 684x this word is used in the NT, this word is only used 10x in the passive (as here) with regard to Jesus...

--5x of which referred to His physical [glorified Body's] presence on the earth with His disciples [not the entire world--only to carefully-chosen witnesses] FOLLOWING His death and resurrection;

--the other 5x referring to His having appeared to one particular person [who I believe is a TYPE of the future 144,000!] FROM [His position IN] HEAVEN--not bodily present on the earth [ALSO FOLLOWING His death and resurrection];

--every one of those 10x speaks of that which took place AFTER His "death and resurrection";

--NONE of those 10x speaks of anything which took place BEFORE His "death and resurrection"





["pre-tribbers" believe that Jesus is only "RETURNING" ONCE... at the time of His Second Coming to the earth (Rev19)--In Scripture, the word "RETURN" (re: Jesus) is set in the CONTEXT of His Second Coming to the earth (not "our Rapture")]

 

[DavidTree]

your mockery is just ignorance. Jesus said If it were not so I would not have told you this. the same Pararelal as 1thess 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Thess 4:13 18 is beautiful and TRUE just as in the Gospels, the Apostles letters to His Church and Revelation.

No where can you or anyone find pre-trib rapture. But we all see Jesus Second Coming for His Bride/the Church/His Elect.

There is no FIRST Resurrection taking place in Revelation chapters 1, 2 and 3 - only through sin by adding to God's Word.

The FIRST Resurrection that takes place in 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 also is recorded by our Lord Jesus Christ in Revelation.

Remember dear Brother this: 1 Thessalonians 4:13 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.
By the word of the Lord.........verse 14

Your words are your words - Do Not add your words to Scripture - this is an act of pride.

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 5-6

Now go find, by the word of the Lord, the FIRST Resurrection in Revelation, just as the word of the Lord spoke it in (1 Thess 4: 13-18).

 

[DavidTree]

Verses like this should settle the matter. We await the second coming only.

Hebrews 9 (NASB)
27 And just as it is destined for people to die once, and after this comes judgment, 28 so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Correct: No adding to Scripture what it does not say - Only one Second Coming/His Return/the First resurrection & Rapture

Every person caught in the snare of pre-trib should be in the fear of God in this:

But shun profane and idle babblings, for they will increase to more ungodliness.
And their message will spread like cancer. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of this sort,
who have strayed concerning the truth, saying that the resurrection is already past; and they overthrow the faith of some.
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity. 2 Timothy 2:19

Our Loving Savior will not leave a single 'Living Stone of His Bride' to be Left Behind.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Pretrib doctrine is focussed on SELF

I would say, not... for a couple of reasons I've stated before (and place again, here, for the readers to consider):


1)--"our Rapture" (of which we are passive recipients of that action) is a primary impetus that will aid in Israel turning to their Messiah, Jesus Christ (and it is THEY who go on to do the "INVITING TO" the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age, which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 [...Lk12:36-37,38 again, for example]);


2)--the "pre-tribber's" concern is (not centered around "SELF" but) that "what we say NOW" will indeed affect those who will be existing on the earth FOLLOWING "our Rapture"(Paul, in 2Th1&2, is telling of the two contrasting "beliefs" ppl WILL BE coming to, FOLLOWING our departure [i.e. when they are IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib yrs]--and the things WE SAY NOW don't disappear with us, but impact those people and the "beliefs" THEY will be coming to [two disparate ones Paul tells of] FOLLOWING "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [/FOLLOWING our Rapture... IN THE AIR])

 

[DavidTree]

Your posting style is unreadable.

Magicians trick people with their hands and illusion.
The serpent is the chief magician who uses words to trick his audience into believing something that is not authentic.
Every pre-trib dialogue follows the same pattern - throw in as many different scriptures into the Blender of Religion and out comes
pre-trib rapture.
It's magical......but not authentic by the word of the Lord.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Our Loving Savior will not leave a single 'Living Stone of His Bride' to be Left Behind.

He doesn't.

And no "pre-tribber" says He leaves behind His "BRIDE".


But He is not "MARRYING" the 10 (or even the FIVE) "VirginS [/BridesmaidS]"... the "5 [PLURAL] wise VirginS" will indeed be "saved" and ENTER the earthly MK age (Matthew 25:10). Not as the "BRIDE / WIFE [/SINGULAR]" though, see.




[ 5 year olds grasp that " FIVE virginS [PLURAL]" is NOT who the ONE "Bridegroom" is coming to "MARRY"]

 

[DavidTree]

Indeed Jesus taught post trib rap for He says
"AFTER the tribulation of those days .... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds with great power and glory ..."

This puts the pre-trib rapture error in jeopardy of being exposed. So what do they do to keep it alive?

They 'add to and take away' from God's word.

i have a Open Offer for a $1,000 Reward for the Scripture(s) that show 'pre-trib' rapture of the Bride of Christ/His Church/His Elect.

No one is able to meet the challenge because the Scripture never teaches/instructs or leads us to pre-trib rapture - never/no where.

 

[DavidTree]

He doesn't.

And no "pre-tribber" says He leaves behind His "BRIDE".


But He is not "MARRYING" the 10 (or even the FIVE) "VirginS [/BridesmaidS]"... the "5 [PLURAL] wise VirginS" will indeed be "saved" and ENTER the earthly MK age (Matthew 25:10). Not as the "BRIDE / WIFE [/SINGULAR]" though, see.




[ 5 year olds grasp that " FIVE virginS [PLURAL]" is NOT who the ONE "Bridegroom" is coming to "MARRY"]

Stay with this Truth, that he does not leave any of His behind.
This Truth is in the Gospels, in the love letters to His Bride written by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles and in Revelation.

Not one of His 'Living Stones' are left behind in Revelation - by the word of the Lord.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ At the moment "our Rapture" takes place, ALL believers are "CAUGHT UP / SNATCHED"... and there remains ONLY the "unsaved" on the earth. ZERO "believers" will be left behind! NONE.


But FOLLOWING "our Rapture" many people will be coming to faith (NOT ALL will--Paul, in 2Th1&2 tells of the TWO contrasting "beliefs" people WILL BE coming to FOLLOWING "our Rapture / Departure," when they find themselves IN the Trib).

Some of those "of Israel" will be among the first to realize the Truth, will come to Christ in faith, and it is THEY who go on to DO the "INVITING TO" the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age (doing the "INVITING" in and during the Trib years, FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--Matt24:14/26:13, for example, as well as Matt22:9-14, for another example...).

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

I would say, not... for a couple of reasons I've stated before (and place again, here, for the readers to consider):


1)--"our Rapture" (of which we are passive recipients of that action) is a primary impetus that will aid in Israel turning to their Messiah, Jesus Christ (and it is THEY who go on to do the "INVITING TO" the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom age, which will commence upon His "RETURN" to the earth Rev19 [...Lk12:36-37,38 again, for example]);


2)--the "pre-tribber's" concern is (not centered around "SELF" but) that "what we say NOW" will indeed affect those who will be existing on the earth FOLLOWING "our Rapture"(Paul, in 2Th1&2, is telling of the two contrasting "beliefs" ppl WILL BE coming to, FOLLOWING our departure [i.e. when they are IN / DURING / WITHIN the Trib yrs]--and the things WE SAY NOW don't disappear with us, but impact those people and the "beliefs" THEY will be coming to [two disparate ones Paul tells of] FOLLOWING "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" [/FOLLOWING our Rapture... IN THE AIR])

Pretrib is focussed on what the teachers of that doctrine believe to be our entitlement
An early, secret 7-year party in heaven. (not in scripture)
A party which excludes martyrs who are beheaded for resisiting God's enemy.
A party which abandons the remnant of Israel.
Self-centred.

Bible prophecy is focussed on the revelation in glory of Jesus before the whole world.
God centred.