How the Pre-Trib Rapture Became Popular in the Modern Church

[DavidTree]

That is plainly nonsensical. "No rapture" in the key passage which reveals the Resurrection/Rapture! Amazing how people will try to twist the Scriptures to fit their man-made theologies.

There is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the Resurrection/Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ. In the first appearance Christ comes FOR His saints. But at the Second Coming Christ comes to earth WITH His saints and angels. In between we have the Marriage of the Lamb, which means that one aspect of the Rapture is the Divine Bridegroom coming for His Bride (the Church). But since the Bride must be spotless, the saints are perfected and glorified at the Rapture (1 John 3:1-3 and other passages).

The truth is that most Christians do not really understand the purpose of the Resurrection/Rapture. Instead we find attacks on Darby, Scofield, Walvoord, Lindsey, etc. as though these men had no understanding of the Scriptures. But whenever a Bible doctrine is under attack, it behooves every person to carefully study the Scriptures for themselves, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit. The Bible shows us that the Resurrection/Rapture is the culmination of salvation, hence "the Blessed Hope" of the saints.

Where in scripture does it say Two Returns of our Lord?

 

[DavidTree]

The whole cut and paste of the Treatises of Cyprian, is a construct not found in the writing. It seems someone took a page and a half and tried to condense it into a small paragraph. To note: Cyprian was referencing the current age, and the worsening of the days as they grow more evil. There is no way one could see anything about the pre-trib rapture unless they were already set in their own understanding.

Likewise, in the reference of Irenaeus, he clearly is talking about the church overcoming the wickedness of the world: "And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, "There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be." For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption" for how does a contest of the righteous exist with only one side present. This is the only obscure reference in the whole of the writing (it would fill a book). I assume people are reading what they already want to believe. This is not surprising, many treat the scriptures in the same manner.

I'll assume the same about the other references.

The Baptists had to protect their investment. The pre-trib rapture doctrine was a promising cash cow. So, they sifted through early writings to find obscure references to support their conclusion. This was important to them: since, after denying that God still speaks to the spirits of men, they needed a doctrine they could package within dispensationalism and market to the consumers. Once you deny that the Spirit of God still speaks to men, you're left with English, Greek, and Hebrew etymology. And, with their head down in old books trying to justify themselves, the Lord arose elsewhere, and they perceived Him not.

Pre-trib has always been big business for the pushers. It is always easy money when appealing to the flesh.

 

[Rondonmon]

No one taught a pre-trib rapture until John Darby, and Anglican preacher, in the mid 1800s. So the teaching is relatively new. Now, being new does not necessarily mean a teaching is defunct: while God never changes, He reveals knowledge and understanding in a progressive manner. Things that we have not contemplated before, suddenly come alive to us in the scriptures. So, while the ideas are new to us, they were always established in the mind of God.

But the manner is which things are "revealed" should be examined. So let's look at the manner in which the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture came to be a Baptist staple.

Dwight Young, professor emeritus at Brandeis University of Near Eastern and Judaic Studies, personally corresponded with a friend of mine several years ago. My friend was a young lawyer ( as an aside, had George Bush Senior been elected for a second term, there is a good possibility that my friend would have been chosen as a state supreme court judge.) Dwight was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary at the same time Hal Lindsey studied there, so this is more than 50 years ago or so. They were graduate students.

Dwight said the professors were discussing Darbyism, and whether or not it was a valid theology. This graduate student, Hal Lindsey, wrote a master’s thesis on the subject of this form of dispensationalism and the rapture. He later turned that thesis into a book called The Late Great Planet Earth. Now some of you may not know about this book, but it was a runaway bestseller. It made a lot of money. According to Dwight, that is where the Baptists made the switch. They saw that there was a market for this doctrine, and they ran with it. Dwight later moved up to and was a professor of biblical studies, biblical languages at Brandeis University, from which he retired, and he was in a state of retirement when my friend met him. So, 50 years from the writing of a master's thesis, the teaching is so entrenched in the Baptist circles you would think it was the gospel.

Historically, nobody ever thought of this doctrine before Darby. But once he popularized it in the context of dispensationalism, meaning things wrap up within blocks of time, people began to embrace it because they did not have to trust the Holy Spirit. If you are going to have any measure of understanding of prophetic Scripture, the end from the beginning and where we are at this point in time, you are going to have to walk in the Spirit. He is the One who wrote the Book; He is the One who is perfectly capable of interpreting it. And the folly of logic and reason and man-made constructs, such as dispensationalism, will lead you to increasing folly, such as the rapture.

God knows the end from the beginning, and the greatest moment of the Body of Christ is in the midst of the darkness in Revelation. That darkness has no potential to blunt our display of the glory of God, the radiance of God’s glory, or to represent Him exactly. It has no ability to influence that at all. This is the time for the glory of what God has been doing, when He established the heavens and the earth for the purpose of establishing a corporate man in creation so that He might be seen in creation as who He is. He is on a path wherein not only will He show who He is in all of His glory through the corporate body, but He will bring the enemy to judgment as well.

Grace and Peace,

Aaron56

Harpazo and Rapimere or Rapio mean the same thing, Paul wrote Harpazo, in Latin, it's Rapimere (Rapture) in English it's a Catching Away. You do understand all three are from Paul's Harpazo right? This the Harpazo means Rapture and Catching Away To b honest, it doesn't take that much intelligence to understand this, it takes a HUGE STIFF NECK to deny this fact, however.

Paul wrote the word Harpazo, thus he wrote the Rapture and Catching away because the ALL THREE man the exact same thing. By your definition Jesus is a FAKE WORD also because Paul wrote Iieous, not Jesus, you see how silly that makes you look by falling for this double talk?

Thus no other translation besides the original translation is REAL !!

Come on man, think before you fall for this stuff.

 

[JTB]

This subject is going to be debated until it actually happens. And you're not going to change many people's minds with all this vain argumentation. Here's my take:

Pray for pre
Prepare for post

 

[DavidTree]

Pre-trib rapture is a man made error and God's Word proves it for the error it is.

There is only one Return/Second Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus NEVER said He was coming back TWICE.
He always said He is Coming back - in the Gospels, the Apostles letters to His Church and in Revelation.
Since He came to earth the FIRST time as the Servant.
The SECOND time, His Second Coming, as KING of kings for His Bride and to execute Judgement upon the ungodly.

This is clear in the Gospels and in the Apostles writings.

EVERY pre-trib rapture theory that comes along commits this error:

Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar. Proverbs 30: 6

I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. Revelation 22: 18-19

1 Thessaonians chapter 4 is the KEY to open the door for truth on the Lords Return - His Second Coming.

1 Thessalonians chapter 4 is in Revelation - Just as John said: After this I looked and saw a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had previously heard speak to me like a trumpet was saying, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after these things.”

Start there and then - DO NOT ADD or TAKE AWAY from Scripture - Scripture cannot lie.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ In Revelation 4:1 (I assume that is your reference ^ ), the Greek words for the phrase "after these things" is found in the verse twice:

4:1 -

"After these things I looked, and behold, a door was standing open in heaven, and the first voice that I heard like a trumpet was speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show to you what it behooves to [/must] take place after these things."


-- https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/4-1.htm




[ the question becomes... after "what things" ?? ]

 

[GaryA]

^ In Revelation 4:1 (I assume that is your reference ^ ), the Greek words for the phrase "after these things" is found in the verse twice:

4:1 -

"After these things I looked, and behold, a door was standing open in heaven, and the first voice that I heard like a trumpet was speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and I will show to you what it behooves to [/must] take place after these things."


-- https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/4-1.htm




[ the question becomes... after "what things" ?? ]

Don't complicate it.

It is really quite simple.

Revelation 4:

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

The word 'this' refers to what John had witnessed that is described in Chapters 1-3.

The word 'hereafter' simply means "after now" or "after the time of this revelation" or "in the future"...

Don't complicate it.

Let it say what it actually says.

Don't embellish...

 

[Ruby123]

This subject is going to be debated until it actually happens. And you're not going to change many people's minds with all this vain argumentation. Here's my take:

Pray for pre
Prepare for post

This is the best answer so far. We really wont know for sure until it happens. I hope it is pre trib, I don't fancy being beheaded but if so, it will probably be quick.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The truth is Christ returns only once, in the air at first and later that day on the ground. The coming and rapture happen the same day, within moments of each other.

My question to you is: who is it that you say (Scripture tells us) "ENTERS" the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom upon His "RETURN"??


The promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom, variously known as:


--"the age [singular] to come" (immediately follows "the end [singular] of the age [singular]"--Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50--when the angels will "REAP"; found in Matt12:32 just prior to Jesus speaking to His disciples about "the age [singular] to come");

--"the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" (Matt25:1-13; Matt22:9-14);

--the "meal [G347]" (Luke 12:36-37,38,40,42-44,45-48 "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding" ...THEN the meal [G347]; parallel Matt24:42-51; also as found in Matt8:11 and its parallel);

--"the kingdom OF THE heavenS" (too many to list, but all as found in Matthew);

--the "BLESSED" time (Daniel 12:12 "BLESSED is the one who waiteth, and cometh to the 1335 days"; Found also in about 8 other passages all speaking to the same "setting"/context [their ENTRANCE INTO the earthly MK age]--Rev19:9 [distinct from 19:7]; Matt24:45-47 parallel Lk12:36-37,38,40,42-44); Matt25:31-34; Rev16:15-16 Armageddon time-slot / 2nd Coming to the earth; and MORE...)

--etc... (that's a good start )






____________

According to your viewpoint (if I understand yours aright), you do NOT believe it is the "saints / believers / the righteous / the BLESSED" who ENTER the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom (in their mortal bodies, capable of reproducing / bearing children) commencing upon His "RETURN" there, but [...who?? other than this??]






[may the reader compare Matthew 24:37 (2nd Coming to the earth passages) with Daniel 2:35c alongside Gen9:1 "and FILL [/FILLED] the [whole] earth"]

 

[rayzor]

My mom used to say. that i did not use my brain any way...so of with my head not such a big deal.

 

[CS1]

No one taught a pre-trib rapture until John Darby, and Anglican preacher, in the mid 1800s. So the teaching is relatively new. Now, being new does not necessarily mean a teaching is defunct: while God never changes, He reveals knowledge and understanding in a progressive manner. Things that we have not contemplated before, suddenly come alive to us in the scriptures. So, while the ideas are new to us, they were always established in the mind of God.

But the manner is which things are "revealed" should be examined. So let's look at the manner in which the doctrine of the pre-trib rapture came to be a Baptist staple.

Dwight Young, professor emeritus at Brandeis University of Near Eastern and Judaic Studies, personally corresponded with a friend of mine several years ago. My friend was a young lawyer ( as an aside, had George Bush Senior been elected for a second term, there is a good possibility that my friend would have been chosen as a state supreme court judge.) Dwight was a student at Dallas Theological Seminary at the same time Hal Lindsey studied there, so this is more than 50 years ago or so. They were graduate students.

Dwight said the professors were discussing Darbyism, and whether or not it was a valid theology. This graduate student, Hal Lindsey, wrote a master’s thesis on the subject of this form of dispensationalism and the rapture. He later turned that thesis into a book called The Late Great Planet Earth. Now some of you may not know about this book, but it was a runaway bestseller. It made a lot of money. According to Dwight, that is where the Baptists made the switch. They saw that there was a market for this doctrine, and they ran with it. Dwight later moved up to and was a professor of biblical studies, biblical languages at Brandeis University, from which he retired, and he was in a state of retirement when my friend met him. So, 50 years from the writing of a master's thesis, the teaching is so entrenched in the Baptist circles you would think it was the gospel.

Historically, nobody ever thought of this doctrine before Darby. But once he popularized it in the context of dispensationalism, meaning things wrap up within blocks of time, people began to embrace it because they did not have to trust the Holy Spirit. If you are going to have any measure of understanding of prophetic Scripture, the end from the beginning and where we are at this point in time, you are going to have to walk in the Spirit. He is the One who wrote the Book; He is the One who is perfectly capable of interpreting it. And the folly of logic and reason and man-made constructs, such as dispensationalism, will lead you to increasing folly, such as the rapture.

God knows the end from the beginning, and the greatest moment of the Body of Christ is in the midst of the darkness in Revelation. That darkness has no potential to blunt our display of the glory of God, the radiance of God’s glory, or to represent Him exactly. It has no ability to influence that at all. This is the time for the glory of what God has been doing, when He established the heavens and the earth for the purpose of establishing a corporate man in creation so that He might be seen in creation as who He is. He is on a path wherein not only will He show who He is in all of His glory through the corporate body, but He will bring the enemy to judgment as well.

Grace and Peace,

Aaron56

I love the way some dismiss what is seen in the word of God by using a man while completely overlooking the very words of Jesus, who I might add was well before Mr. Darby.


If one takes Darby out of the context of the doctrine of the rapture and answer the question of what did Jesus mean in

John chapter 14: 1-3

14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”



Jesus was speaking of HIS death and resurrection a literal death and resurrection and going to HIS Father and preparing a place was of great importance and tradition concerning Jewish marriage. This is not the first time Jesus used the marriage ceremony to describe a coming event the Bride Groom coming to get HIS Bride and take HER to HIS Fathers house.

the foolish virgins and the wise ones are even more about marriage. in Every Gospel where Jesus is speaking about marriage and the Bridegoom is in context to HE and the Church as marriage and coming for the bride without notices and the Bride is to be ready.

Mr. Darby is only repeating what Jesus said. Jesus is coming for HIS Bride not because Mr. Darby said so, but because the LORD Jesus Promised to do so.


Paul spoke of this in 1thess 4:13-18 and in 1Corthains 15. It is a straw man to attack Mr. Darby when one will not just address what Jesus said in John 14:1-4 and other gospel scriptures. Jesus is the authority and measuring rod of truth concerning all scripture when HE is Speaking. a Cemetary of education did not teach that foundational truth it was a waste of time.

 

[JTB]

My mom used to say. that i did not use my brain any way...so of with my head not such a big deal.

I know a lot of people for whom it would be an improvement

 

[Ruby123]

I love the way some dismiss what is seen in the word of God by using a man while completely overlooking the very words of Jesus, who I might add was well before Mr. Darby.


If one takes Darby out of the context of the doctrine of the rapture and answer the question of what did Jesus mean in

John chapter 14: 1-3

14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”



Jesus was speaking of HIS death and resurrection a literal death and resurrection and going to HIS Father and preparing a place was of great importance and tradition concerning Jewish marriage. This is not the first time Jesus used the marriage ceremony to describe a coming event the Bride Groom coming to get HIS Bride and take HER to HIS Fathers house.

the foolish virgins and the wise ones are even more about marriage. in Every Gospel where Jesus is speaking about marriage and the Bridegoom is in context to HE and the Church as marriage and coming for the bride without notices and the Bride is to be ready.

Mr. Darby is only repeating what Jesus said. Jesus is coming for HIS Bride not because Mr. Darby said so, but because the LORD Jesus Promised to do so.


Paul spoke of this in 1thess 4:13-18 and in 1Corthains 15. It is a straw man to attack Mr. Darby when one will not just address what Jesus said in John 14:1-4 and other gospel scriptures. Jesus is the authority and measuring rod of truth concerning all scripture when HE is Speaking. a Cemetary of education did not teach that foundational truth it was a waste of time.

There is a video on you tube of the rapture comparing it to the Galileen Jewish Wedding called "before the wrath" Have you seen it?

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The word 'this' refers to what John had witnessed that is described in Chapters 1-3.

The word 'hereafter' simply means "after now" or "after the time of this revelation" or "in the future"...

"After these things..." (first mention in the verse, the first words of the verse) is speaking of the "things WHICH ARE" that had just been talked about in chpts 2-3 ("the things WHICH ARE" are not said of them, that they are "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" that Rev1:1 said was... "TO SHOW unto" [to be "SHOW[n]"]);


"...after these things" (second mention in the verse; at the end of the verse) is in the context of words saying:
"Come up here, and I WILL SHOW you what things must take place AFTER THESE THINGS" (<--this BLUE phrase refers to "the things WHICH ARE" that had just been talked about in chpts 2-3, which are NOT said to be "things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" THAT the "TO SHOW [unto]" things are said to be [that is, the things from 4:1 to the time of His RETURN to the earth in Rev19--equaling the "2520 days" total / aka "7 years" / "for ONE WEEK"])





[that "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" phrase used also in Luke 18:8 ("AVENGE in quickness [noun]") and in Romans 16:20 ("shall CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET in quickness [noun]")]

 

[CS1]

There is a video on you tube of the rapture comparing it to the Galileen Jewish Wedding called "before the wrath" Have you seen it?

I have not seen that video but I have studied Jewish tradition ( wedding) for many years and in context to scripture.

Jewish wedding was one of the most prophetic symbolism given in scripture next to the Passover feast.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[meant to add LINK to that reference, in that ^ post] Revelation 4:1 Interlinear: After these things I saw, and lo, a door opened in the heaven, and the first voice that I heard is as of a trumpet speaking with me, saying, 'Come up hither, and I will shew thee what it behoveth to come to pass after these things;' (biblehub.com)



[be sure... the first "after these things" refers to the SAME "after these things" that he said (and was getting ready to) "I WILL SHEW / SHOW" what comes AFTER those, from 4:1 and following (and why John did the "COME UP HITHER" thing, to be SHOWN)]

 

[GaryA]

Jewish wedding was one of the most prophetic symbolism

Exactly.

It is a pattern. It is symbolic. It is not a literal itinerary narration of the event sequence of the return of Christ.

You have to look at the actual events from a "bigger picture" viewpoint.

The 'rapture' IS the wedding.

What you see described in Revelation 19:17-18,21 IS the marriage supper.

 

[Aaron56]

John chapter 14: 1-3

14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”
.

The place was prepared and He was resurrected and then He returned. He died a man and He was raised as The Life Giving Spirit named Christ. Now, those who are baptized into Christ are included in Him.

“Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

Here, He was talking about His death.

The “place” in the house of God is in the Son not some metaphysical dwelling.

“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

This verse is foolishly used at funerals too often.

 

[CS1]

Exactly.

It is a pattern. It is symbolic. It is not a literal itinerary narration of the event sequence of the return of Christ.

You have to look at the actual events from a "bigger picture" viewpoint.

The 'rapture' IS the wedding.

What you see described in Revelation 19:17-18,21 IS the marriage supper.

prophetic is not it is forth-telling and foretelling Jesus in John 14:1-4 was not symbolic it was descriptive of an event to really happen.

literal, and symbolism and prophetic can all work together contextually. Though Jesus spoke using what all Jewish would have known in john 14: 1-4 as a wedding to reinforce the truth of HIS death and resurrection by saying I go and will return to RECIEVE you to myself IF it were not the truth I would not have told you this. Context.

 

[CS1]

The place was prepared and He was resurrected and then He returned. He died a man and He was raised as The Life Giving Spirit named Christ. Now, those who are baptized into Christ are included in Him.

“Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.”

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

Here, He was talking about His death.

The “place” in the house of God is in the Son not some metaphysical dwelling.

“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

This verse is foolishly used at funerals too often.

your mockery is just ignorance. Jesus said If it were not so I would not have told you this. the same Pararelal as 1thess 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.