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Saved by Water
- Thread starter Wansvic
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The scriptures presented make the point that the use of the literal name of the Lord Jesus is required in water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) There is power in the name of Jesus. Jesus said if we ask anything in his name he will do it. (John 14:14) Stated elsewhere, the word instructs that everything we do in word and deed is to be done in his name. (Col 3:17)
Can a person expect healing if they do not pray for it using the literal name of Jesus?
Can demons be cast out without commanding them to do so in the literal name of Jesus?
Failure will be the result of all attempts to do these things without following God's mandate of using the name of Jesus. A couple of scriptures that reference this:
...John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. Mark 9:38-39
And the seventy returned again with joy, saying, Lord, even the devils are subject unto us through thy name. Luke 10:17
God was pretty ingenious in his handling (and separating in time) of these matters.
GOD sent John the baptist to establish the way of the Lord (Water baptism for REMISSION of sins, [perhaps you say repentance for remission]) slightly BEFORE Jesus' earthly ministry began... and He established the other (Baptism in the spirit) slightly AFTER Jesus' earthly ministry. As it is written: "Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. " (Matt. 11:10, Mark 1:2, Luke 7:10 verbatim in all three). <--That is important because it proves that remission of sins is accomplished NOT at the receiving of the Holy ghost, but at the repentance that includes water baptism (because remission was in effect before receiving of the Holy Ghost was even available).
That, of course, is in line with what Jesus said in Acts 1:5 KJV and what Peter practiced in Acts 2 :38 and Acts 10:44....and which the apostles collectively practiced as well in Acts 8:14-17 and which the apostle Paul also practiced in Acts 19:4-6. All of them knowing that if someone had believed and been water baptized, that was not the same as receiving the Holy Ghost [nor a replacement for it] (Acts 2 & 19 accountings) and that if they had received the Holy Ghost, that was no replacement for repentance&remission through baptism. (Acts 8 & 10 accountings). <-- might take re-reading to see that the chapter groupings changed to reflect the possible combinations.
Sorry for the delay, I was working too. (not to suggest you were holding your breath waiting for my reply )
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
I've already explained what the word "name" means in the Greek. Jesus' literal name has no power. It it His REPUTATION that counts.
Repeating the name "Jesus" over and over changes nothing.
There is power in the REPUTATION of Jesus. Who He is and what He has done.
Sad.
It is His REPUTATION that is important. Yes, we do say His Name, but it's His REPUTATION that counts.
btw, are you aware of how many people in Mexico who are named 'Jesus"?
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SophieT
Guest
the literal name? so now you are going to take this tact? we have all been baptized in His name.
do you think it counts if I say I rebuke your false teaching in the name of Jesus? I'm not fooling
you are so far into left field you meet yourself coming the other way
Wansvic said:
The scriptures presented make the point that the use of the literal name of the Lord Jesus is required in water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) There is power in the name of Jesus. Jesus said if we ask anything in his name he will do it. (John 14:14) Stated elsewhere, the word instructs that everything we do in word and deed is to be done in his name. (Col 3:17)
The scriptures presented make the point that the use of the literal name of the Lord Jesus is required in water baptism. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) There is power in the name of Jesus. Jesus said if we ask anything in his name he will do it. (John 14:14) Stated elsewhere, the word instructs that everything we do in word and deed is to be done in his name. (Col 3:17)
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
God was pretty ingenious in his handling (and separating in time) of these matters.
GOD sent John the baptist to establish the way of the Lord (Water baptism for REMISSION of sins, [perhaps you say repentance for remission]) slightly BEFORE Jesus' earthly ministry began... and He established the other (Baptism in the spirit) slightly AFTER Jesus' earthly ministry. As it is written: "Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. " (Matt. 11:10, Mark 1:2, Luke 7:10 verbatim in all three). <--That is important because it proves that remission of sins is accomplished NOT at the receiving of the Holy ghost, but at the repentance that includes water baptism (because remission was in effect before receiving of the Holy Ghost was even available).
That, of course, is in line with what Jesus said in Acts 1:5 KJV and what Peter practiced in Acts 2 :38 and Acts 10:44....and which the apostles collectively practiced as well in Acts 8:14-17 and which the apostle Paul also practiced in Acts 19:4-6. All of them knowing that if someone had believed and been water baptized, that was not the same as receiving the Holy Ghost [nor a replacement for it] (Acts 2 & 19 accountings) and that if they had received the Holy Ghost, that was no replacement for repentance&remission through baptism. (Acts 8 & 10 accountings). <-- might take re-reading to see that the chapter groupings changed to reflect the possible combinations.
Sorry for the delay, I was working too. (not to suggest you were holding your breath waiting for my reply )
Love in Jesus,
Kelby
1. Johns baptism - it was not a baptism given to receive remission of sin. It was a baptism of repentance tp show remission of sin. Remember, John demanded that the pharisees showed prove they had recieved remission before he would even consider baptizing them. No persons had their sin washed by Johns baptism
2. Jesus baptism. Jesus told people to go and make disciples BAPTISING THEM. (they were already disciples BEFORE they were baptize. he said baptize THEM not baptize to MAKE THEM
3. Acts 2: 38 does not say what you think it says we have been through this
4. Your trying to replace spirit baptism with water baptism. Once again. That is blasphemy.
The word of God specifically addresses the two topics you mention.
1. The OT mandate of circumcision was required of Jews and Gentile proselytes. Jews thought it necessary for believers to continue the practice ALONG with the NT mandate of repentance and obedience to water baptism.
2. Faith in the NT gospel message does not require obedience to OT circumcision. It commands both Jew and Gentile believers to repent and submit to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus.
According to the word, it is water baptism that remits sin. (Acts 2:38, 22:16) Peter never stated that the group had received the Holy Ghost when they believed in Jesus. Actually Peter told the group they needed to repent and be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and that God would give them the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38-41) Also noteworthy is the fact that Peter's message was prompted by the groups confusion concerning those speaking in tongues. Peter stated that what they were seeing and hearing was in fact the manifestation that the Holy Ghost had been given.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. No one in the OT was saved because they were circumcised. It was not required for salvation (it was only for the jews. Many gentiles were saved think ninevah
2. Faith in the NT is no different. Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness. It is not by works of righteousness which we have done. Paul makes it clear in Col 2 that it is the spiritual circumcision/baptism performed by the one who raised Christ from the dead that sdaves us. Not physical circumcision/baptism done by the hand of man
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
says the one who says we do not have to do anything
then says we do have to do something
sorry man, Acts 2: 38 does not say what you think
“Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”
Acts 11:17-18 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/act.11.17-18.KJV
Peter says they received the Holy Spirit here without water baptism.
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SophieT
Guest
true
but wansvic believes that even if you are speaking in tongues or whatever, you are still not saved until you are water baptised
he/she (don't know) said as much some pages back
so I mean not much you can say there. just imagine...saved, filled with the Holy Spirit (as per your example above) and yet NOT saved according to wansvic
point blank denies what is plainly stated
You are failing to rightly divide the word. I'll try one more time then I'm done.
God was not propelled by man's "wonderful" behavior to design a way for man to be able to come back into right standing with Him. His plan that included sending His Son was created in spite of man's lousy behavior.
Notice according to the word, God's plan consists of more than saying the "sinner's prayer."
1. Belief in Jesus' having shed His blood for mankind's sin.
2. Repentance required of mankind for making Jesus sacrifice necessary.
3. Obedience to baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin required of mankind.
4. God provides the gift of the Holy Ghost to those willing to obey Him.
Individual's who accept God's conditions will obey them and receive their spiritual rebirth.
Born again believers ARE baptized. The only difference between us and you is that we know water does not regenerate us.
I'm sure God knows to whom we are referring. And again, I believe it when Jesus said; "If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it." John 14:14
When the name of Jesus is invoked, how many men in Mexico can raise their hands in response?
I wouldn't expect to receive anything from Jesus without requesting it how He said to. Obedience to His commands is actually how we honor Him.
I've never ever suggested that we don't address Jesus when in prayer. But you seem to be placing all your marbles in the bag of "name only", as if invoking His name is the power.
In fact, His name is COMMON in Mexico. Means nothing.
Believers invoke His name because of His REPUTATION as the King of kings and Lord of lords.
Stop arguing. Accept the truth.