Witness of Christ in the law : one like Moses

[Pilgrimshope]

Just a few examples to grab your interest and possibly get you to seek more in the law ,

To Moses the lord said

“According to all that thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see this great fire any more, that I die not. And the Lord said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭18:16-19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There would be a prophet “like” Moses in the future who would speak Gods word of requirement

Moses was born at a time when the ruler of the land declared all the born sons of Israel should be killed as infants

“And Pharaoh charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river, and every daughter ye shall save alive.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭1:22‬ ‭

Jesus was born in a time ruled by Herod who gave the order to slaughter all the children born in Bethlehem attempting to Kill the messiah. (Matthew 2:16)

Moses the child born of a Levite under the order , yet was saved from this order into Pharaohs house into Egypt

“And there went a man of the house of Levi, and took to wife a daughter of Levi. And the woman conceived, and bare a son: and when she saw him that he was a goodly child, she hid him three months.….And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh's daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭2:1-2, 10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


And the child Jesus and his family directed to flee and be saved from this order also into Egypt.

“And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭

as Moses was called back out of that Egyptian household , to deliver the Israelites from slavery to Egypt

“Come now therefore, and I will send thee unto Pharaoh, that thou mayest bring forth my people the children of Israel out of Egypt.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭3:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Jesus was also called back out of Egypt to israel , who would lead the people out of slavery to sin beginning with the Israelite people

“And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭2:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses when receiving the law of the covenant of Moses and Israel fasted fourty days and nights ( nite the specificity of the law )

“And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel.

And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭34:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus before he began to preach the gospel the new covenant for all nations fasted fourty days and nights

“And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭4:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Moses would speak Gods word to the people his face would shine brightly temporarily , with a reflection of Gods glory and so he needed to veil it for their fear

“But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he took the veil off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel that which he was commanded.

And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the veil upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭34:34-35‬ ‭KJV‬‬

later we understand this figure through Paul’s revelation ( 2 Corinthians 3:6-18) regarding the two testaments one being hidden by the veil the other open to behold the face of Christ in all glory


and of course Jesus revealed the truth of this figure on the Mount in the cloud confirming Moses word of the Christ to come and that christ was the one to be heard and required of the people

“And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.


While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭17:2-3, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

note that what was said from the cloud is what Moses said at the first of this promise we must be willing to hear Christ and his word

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.

And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”

Acts‬ ‭3:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we need to hear Christ and his word because he can do what the law cannot do calling sinners to repentance as Peter finishes his statement of revelation

“Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:25-26‬ ‭


Moses was a figure of Christ who was always the plan for salvation. There was a time Moses word was the word required to hear and keep but it ended when Jesus began preaching the gospel and the revelation of the figure of Moses the promised messiah , came forth

This is an important thing to realize when. I have time going to offer a few examples of the sacrifices and how Christ also fulfilled that , the priesthood and how he fulfilled that , and even how he fulfilled the peoples end of the covenant according to law in order to take it away and speak the better life giving word of the gospel , later also the prophets clear witness of these same things

consider that the Old Testament was always for the purpose of promising and witnessing Christ through the Torah of Moses writings and through the prophets they were preparing the world for the fulfillment and truth to appear

“But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:18-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God bless I hope this encourages you to seek for the many more open and obvious examples of Christ in Moses life

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Rather than film the forum with these long posts I’ll stay in this thread so you can discuss other things of interest without interference

The laws witness of Christ : sacrifices

The Passover sacrifice

death was determined and was coming into the land , to save Israel’s sons from this death there was given a Passover sacrifice beforehand

“Your lamb shall be without blemish, a male of the first year: ye shall take it out from the sheep, or from the goats:… and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening.

And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses, wherein they shall eat it.

And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.

And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.”

‭‭Exodus‬ ‭12:5-8, 13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is a revelation of those figures even what the unleavened bread really is in truth revealed in the New Testament

“Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.

For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;

but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.”

‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭5:7-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The type of bread nor leaven are the true matter but what the figure of leaven was witnessing. Leaven is representing sin and maliciousness , unleavened bread is representing sincerity and truth goodness and mercy ect.

All that Christ teaches us purges the old leaven of sinful hearts and changes them into true and sincere hearts before the lord which is appropriate with our true Passover lamb who’s blood covers us from death nothing to do with bread as in the figure but understanding as in the revelation

Notice the congregation was to come together and kill the Passover?

And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews? And they cried out again, Crucify him. Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him. And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭15:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In addition

“Thou mayest not sacrifice the passover within any of thy gates, which the Lord thy God giveth thee:”
Deuteronomy‬ ‭16:5‬ ‭

jesus was led through the city to the hill just outside Jerusalem and killed , because all the congregation of Israel shouted in unison “ crucify him crucify him “ by his blood we are given life where there was certain death coming over us , that is still coming for all. He is our Passover the revelation of the pre ordained figure of the Passover lamb was always speaking of the lamb of God .

Note also this part of that section of verses setting up our next example of the sin sacrifice and scapegoat

“Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.”

The sin sacrifice one to die for sin the other to live and bear it away from the people

“And Aaron shall cast lots upon the two goats; one lot for the Lord, and the other lot for the scapegoat.

And Aaron shall bring the goat upon which the Lord's lot fell, and offer him for a sin offering.

But the goat, on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat, shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make an atonement with him, and to let him go for a scapegoat into the wilderness.”

‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭16:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Christ of course fulfilled both the sin sacrifice , and became the scapegoat sacrifice to bear the peoples sin away to an unknown location alone. Who also
Made atonement appearing before God alive as the scapegoat was presented for the purpose of the same. but note the two one dies and one lives Christ both died and rose up alive before the lord bearing our sins away

The ransom price of atonement

“And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the Lord, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭30:11-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The price was equal for every man the poor paid the same as the rich from thier own money a half shekel as a ransom price for their inclusion with Hods people , but it was required of all that were numbered with israel.

Our ransom price was paid by Jesus as all requirements of the old law was , it was his suffering and death that paid the price to include us in his inheritance of Gods children

“For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.”

‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:45‬ ‭

“For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭6:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Just a few of the examples examples of the requirements of sacrifice according to Moses and how it is truly witnessing the Christ and his great sacrifice only being a figure beforehand to witness the future messiah so they would recognize him when he came .

the sacrificial figures are plentiful when looking from the epistles and gospel theee are a few but this sacrifice subject really opens up the eyes when one looks into it

Leading to the understanding that Christ himself is our covenant from lawgiver , to mediator , to eternal high priest , to Passover sacrifice , sin sacrifice , scapegoat , to the one paying the ransom price of atonement for the people , to apostle and prophet, and even to the man born under law and born facing death.

the value in realizing the meaning of fulfillment is immense in that it becomes a sire and ancient witness that the gospel is the truth from God eternal and will not fail those who believe

next we can look at the priesthood order of Aaron being a veiled and perfect figure of Christ in the same way as Moses , and the sacrifices .

Melchezideks order being the original priesthood which blessed Abraham , and not leviticle of the law which came later to the hope of creating interest in understanding the scriptures based on what the former scripture had promised should come at the appointed time of the messiah and new covenant which fulfilled the old

until the figure of the law made its place on earth the gospel was hidden in mystery and figure , but he is there throughout and fulfilled all of it also becoming every aspect of the law revealed in one making salvstion fully about faith in him ehomisnwotnesses in the holy scriptures from Moses to Peter , paul and John

all the arrows of scripture beforehand and after point to the events and words of the gospel

 

[Aaron56]

In regard to your first post...

This is John 2:1-10, Jesus at the wedding in Cana. It's very familiar, but it's meaning ties back to your first post.


On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.
And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”

We are all familiar with the set-up: Jesus, His disciples and mother all attend a wedding in Cana. The significance of this is that Jesus is about to demonstrate His first miracle.

First thing of note: this is the third day. I won't go into it here because it's a long lesson, but it essentially corresponds to the revelation that He is the Messiah sent by God who confirms the covenant of sonship.


Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”


This is rhetorical. What it means is this: "Woman, this has to do with you and Me."

He's there with His mother. At this juncture, Jesus represents the Messiah, ushering in a new dispensation of God. His mother represent the Law, the covenant the Jews were currently under.

Mary says to Him: "They have no wine". As a representative of the Law, she is declaring that the grace of the covenant has run out, there is nothing left for the people. It ran out because the promised One had come.

This is the transfer from the administration of the Law to the administration of the Spirit.


His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”


Moses said, “A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up from among the brethren like unto me but Him shall you hear in all that He says to you and it shall come to pass that the soul that will not listen to this Prophet shall be destroyed from among the people.”

The Law says, "Now listen to Him". In this, the Law submits to the Messiah; it has no power over the administration of the Spirit. 2nd Corinthians 3 states that which was glorious has no glory compared to the administration that has come.

"If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!"


Certainly there is more in the reference but I'll stop here.

Aaron56

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In regard to your first post...

This is John 2:1-10, Jesus at the wedding in Cana. It's very familiar, but it's meaning ties back to your first post.


On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.
And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”

We are all familiar with the set-up: Jesus, His disciples and mother all attend a wedding in Cana. The significance of this is that Jesus is about to demonstrate His first miracle.

First thing of note: this is the third day. I won't go into it here because it's a long lesson, but it essentially corresponds to the revelation that He is the Messiah sent by God who confirms the covenant of sonship.


Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”


This is rhetorical. What it means is this: "Woman, this has to do with you and Me."

He's there with His mother. At this juncture, Jesus represents the Messiah, ushering in a new dispensation of God. His mother represent the Law, the covenant the Jews were currently under.

Mary says to Him: "They have no wine". As a representative of the Law, she is declaring that the grace of the covenant has run out, there is nothing left for the people. It ran out because the promised One had come.

This is the transfer from the administration of the Law to the administration of the Spirit.


His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”


Moses said, “A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up from among the brethren like unto me but Him shall you hear in all that He says to you and it shall come to pass that the soul that will not listen to this Prophet shall be destroyed from among the people.”

The Law says, "Now listen to Him". In this, the Law submits to the Messiah; it has no power over the administration of the Spirit. 2nd Corinthians 3 states that which was glorious has no glory compared to the administration that has come.

"If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!"


Certainly there is more in the reference but I'll stop here.

Aaron56

Yes I agree with the conclusion there , Jesus was born of the woman and born under law but his arrival was soon taking mankind somewhere better and when his time has come forth ( his baptism ) everything began to be changed over

“But when the fulness of the time was come,

God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4-5‬ ‭

Jesus lives under the law for many years and didn’t sin in this he became the only man to ever do this even Moses failed in it and was put to death for his sin against God regarding the smoting of the rock failing to sanctify God in the sight of the people , Jesus alone fulfilled the righteous requirements of man under law , it was required that a man kept the law fully to fulfill all righteousness

Then we have the understanding of the ministration of the spirit which he brought forth at this point

“And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John the Baptist’s ministry is the last ministration of the law , the preparatory ministry that bridges the ot and new testaments it’s why John is also so prevalent in prophecy regarding elijahs second coming .

after Jesus is baptized we have the ministration of the spirit beginning to be established . So when Jesus was saying things like this

“For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:23-24, 26‬ ‭

and John was saying things like this

“He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:31-36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It is understood what happened there regarding the holy spiritual who came down upon our lord with the ministration of the spirit

“Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

or this direct reference to Moses foretelling of the messiah

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John is an important figure in the changing over from flesh to spirit he’s called the greater among those born of woman. But he is called least Among any belonging to the kingdom

“Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist:

notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

John was filled with the Holy Ghost from birth , but he could not minister the spirit to others because he is the concluding prophet of the Old Testament law and Christ began to preach the gospel of the kingdom ( which ministers the spirit to believers being of melchezideks order and not the leviticle ) after johns imprisonement

John becomes first a mystery and later when the law and prophets are accepted and heard he becomes , well …. consider the usefulness of the ( figure and fulfillment ) theme I was addressing from the law and prophets

“And they answered him, He was an hairy man, and girt with a girdle of leather about his loins. And he said, It is Elijah the Tishbite.”
‭‭2 Kings‬ ‭1:8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see the final two verses of the prophet malichi

and then you have Isaiah and so on witnessing of John but most of all you have the word of the spirit revealing the truth

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. And if ye will receive it, this is Elijah, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Developing The ears to hear , is the point of this op the law and prophets prepare us for the gospel

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In regard to your first post...

This is John 2:1-10, Jesus at the wedding in Cana. It's very familiar, but it's meaning ties back to your first post.


On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there.
Now both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.
And when they ran out of wine, the mother of Jesus said to Him, “They have no wine.”

We are all familiar with the set-up: Jesus, His disciples and mother all attend a wedding in Cana. The significance of this is that Jesus is about to demonstrate His first miracle.

First thing of note: this is the third day. I won't go into it here because it's a long lesson, but it essentially corresponds to the revelation that He is the Messiah sent by God who confirms the covenant of sonship.


Jesus said to her, “Woman, what does your concern have to do with Me? My hour has not yet come.”


This is rhetorical. What it means is this: "Woman, this has to do with you and Me."

He's there with His mother. At this juncture, Jesus represents the Messiah, ushering in a new dispensation of God. His mother represent the Law, the covenant the Jews were currently under.

Mary says to Him: "They have no wine". As a representative of the Law, she is declaring that the grace of the covenant has run out, there is nothing left for the people. It ran out because the promised One had come.

This is the transfer from the administration of the Law to the administration of the Spirit.


His mother said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”


Moses said, “A Prophet shall the Lord your God raise up from among the brethren like unto me but Him shall you hear in all that He says to you and it shall come to pass that the soul that will not listen to this Prophet shall be destroyed from among the people.”

The Law says, "Now listen to Him". In this, the Law submits to the Messiah; it has no power over the administration of the Spirit. 2nd Corinthians 3 states that which was glorious has no glory compared to the administration that has come.

"If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!"


Certainly there is more in the reference but I'll stop here.

Aaron56

since you seem to grasp the concept in the thread , would you offer one regarding the priesthood examples in the law touching on the priesthood of melchezidek ? I would love to hear a different perspective but within the same idea of “ figures in the law and prophets being fulfilled by Christ “

I had some scripture and was starting to put it together , but I feel as if you may have a good word regarding the priesthood , if not I understand and will post a few examples later regarding the priesthood figure from Moses pattern and revelation of the new and eternal things

 

[Aaron56]

since you seem to grasp the concept in the thread , would you offer one regarding the priesthood examples in the law touching on the priesthood of melchezidek ? I would love to hear a different perspective but within the same idea of “ figures in the law and prophets being fulfilled by Christ “

I had some scripture and was starting to put it together , but I feel as if you may have a good word regarding the priesthood , if not I understand and will post a few examples later regarding the priesthood figure from Moses pattern and revelation of the new and eternal things

You're on the same track regarding "Elijah who was to come" and especially the reference to Malachi, “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents.."

Hebrews 1 records, "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son,..."

The last part is literally: "..has in these last days spoken to us by Son..." "Son" is the language. Literally the Word of God. But it denotes a relationship between a father and a son... there can be no son without a father. The manner in which God speaks to us in these days is Son. This is a direct correlation to the last prophesy in the Old Testament.

The priesthood is now contained within the one House of God... there is no separation of the people and the priests, where one part of believers administrate the covenant and the others just "eat at the table". There is no "priest and laity" dichotomy. We are one, as He is one with the Father.

The Law created a priesthood that went before God as representatives of the nation of people.
The current covenant, the order of Melchizedek, creates a priesthood of an entire nation whom God sends to the world. They represent God before man.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

You're on the same track regarding "Elijah who was to come" and especially the reference to Malachi, “See, I will send the prophet Elijah to you before that great and dreadful day of the Lord comes. He will turn the hearts of the parents to their children, and the hearts of the children to their parents.."

Hebrews 1 records, "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son,..."

The last part is literally: "..has in these last days spoken to us by Son..." "Son" is the language. Literally the Word of God. But it denotes a relationship between a father and a son... there can be no son without a father. The manner in which God speaks to us in these days is Son. This is a direct correlation to the last prophesy in the Old Testament.

The priesthood is now contained within the one House of God... there is no separation of the people and the priests, where one part of believers administrate the covenant and the others just "eat at the table". There is no "priest and laity" dichotomy. We are one, as He is one with the Father.

The Law created a priesthood that went before God as representatives of the nation of people.
The current covenant, the order of Melchizedek, creates a priesthood of an entire nation whom God sends to the world. They represent God before man.

the high priest lives inside everyone who receives him , and corresponds in heaven to this position so what I mean is we have the spirit in us

“And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

but what is on us is based on the reality of this position of the high priest

“Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:27, 34‬ ‭KJV‬‬

by receiving the spirit through him who is at the right hand of God interceding as high priest , it means this in reality , which I think is what you are getting at

“And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Which ultimately means the church is the priesthood being created and made to follow the forerunner who entered in for us and ahead of us

“And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Stephen was drawing his last breaths he looked into the holy of Holies and saw the high priest standing at Gods right hand , and in my humble thoughts Stephen is here with many serving the priesthood of heaven until the restitution of heaven and earth

“After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭7:9, 14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the value of the figures in Moses law are immense and is what gives all these scriptres meaning . It is the priesthood who serves in Gods presence and performs the duties required for atonement and intercession

so then it becomes clear why we need to take upon our selves the judgements Christ the high priest gave , because the church has become the priesthood of the kingdom

The figures that were shown to Moses regarding all these things , are really important to understand the New Testament revelation. I’ll later give an example of what I’m saying regarding the witness in the law and Christs fulfillment

the reason is it’s a powerful witness that creates faith when we begin to let the two wotnesses anoint is with the oil of preparation

“And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?

Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭4:12, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elijah: Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭9:29-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses represents the law which witnesses of Christ , and Elijah represents the prophets ( both ot and new ) who also witness of Christ and the two witnesses are what gives us the anointing of ears to hear these things regarding Christ Jesus

 

[Aaron56]

“These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Moses represents the law which witnesses of Christ , and Elijah represents the prophets ( both ot and new ) who also witness of Christ and the two witnesses are what gives us the anointing of ears to hear these things regarding Christ Jesus

Good stuff.


I'm not convinced the two, Moses and Elijah, are the two standing before God. I will meditate on it.

As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, “Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” (He did not know what he was saying.)

"While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.”

God shut down any symbol of representation of Moses and Elijah. I doubt there would be a "commemorative edition" somewhere in the heavenlies.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Good stuff.


I'm not convinced the two, Moses and Elijah, are the two standing before God. I will meditate on it.

As the men were leaving Jesus, Peter said to him, “Master, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.” (He did not know what he was saying.)

"While he was speaking, a cloud appeared and covered them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. A voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is my Son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.”

God shut down any symbol of representation of Moses and Elijah. I doubt there would be a "commemorative edition" somewhere in the heavenlies.

I don’t think you are understanding what I was saying , but I hope you do meditate on the scripture

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,

being witnessed by the law and the prophets;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭

prophecies are later manifest at the appointed time. Of Gods foreknowledge and will “ the time is fulfilled repent he and believe the gospel “

What’s witnesses in the law and prophets was manifest in Christ and the gospel is the point Moses gave the law and Elijah is the king of prophets who returned in john both the law and prophets witness of Christ

The two figures of Moses and Elijah are further revealed in this

“And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. ( 3 and a half years )

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:3-4, 6‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Elijah was given the power to shut the skies for rain for three and a half years during his ministry so this part

“These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecythousand two hundred and threescore days, “)

“Elijah was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you can read the story of Elijah and see it and then of course Moses was given the power to turn water to blood and of sending plagues “

“have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues,”


if you note in revelation 11 there we’re actually seeing this happen

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and just after we see this

“And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭11:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we see them dead and raised up three and a half days after it’s representing thier witness of Christs death and resurrection and we also see later the ark in heaven .

but just afterwards when they ascend into heaven you see the kingdom of the worlds have become Christs

and then next you see his birth and ascension to the throne

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


revelation has never been what many perceive it is a book of apocalypse ( revelation of all that was beforehand shown in a heavenly spiritual vision revealing the hidden things in the world and in heaven and opening up the comprehensive story of Jesus Christ from the beginning before the fall of man until his return and restitution of the earth as has been done in heaven

 

[Aaron56]

If you can receive it, the Revelation of Jesus Christ is a corporate revelation. The man child and the one who looks like the son of God is the mature, corporate son who is being raised up the in the church now. The woman giving birth is the institutional church who eventually becomes the woman riding the beast. Even now, she’s embroiled in the politics of the world, supporting salacious men and rulers who prostitute her for her support. The call to come out of her is increasing in volume but is almost at its apogge.

But to your point, the corporate mature son arises in similar manner to the life of Jesus. His life was/is a pattern that continues in the earth now… for those who are led by the Spirit.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If you can receive it, the Revelation of Jesus Christ is a corporate revelation. The man child and the one who looks like the son of God is the mature, corporate son who is being raised up the in the church now. The woman giving birth is the institutional church who eventually becomes the woman riding the beast. Even now, she’s embroiled in the politics of the world, supporting salacious men and rulers who prostitute her for her support. The call to come out of her is increasing in volume but is almost at its apogge.

But to your point, the corporate mature son arises in similar manner to the life of Jesus. His life was/is a pattern that continues in the earth now… for those who are led by the Spirit.

brother consider what the prophets had to say

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what I mean about revelation is this

“And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: “

Israel before the law Joseph’s dream ( the twelfth star )

“And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.

And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭37:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

before the children of Israel went into Egypt Israel is represented by the sun , moon , and twelve stars . We’re being shown that israel had received this promise of a son to be born the messiah


And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s the promise of Christ to Israel and then you see that promise of the man child ( son of man ) come forth born of Israel

“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you have the prophets who had promised israel this regarding the messiah this man child has been born even as Satan worked to devour him

“Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭2:6-10, 12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your seeing when she is in pain before birth Israel’s tribulation before Christ was born to isreal and then your seeing him being born who would rule with a rod of iron finally your seeing this

“her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s showing this story of Jesus it’s all about what the prophets had said every verse is like that in revelation it’s fragments of prior prophecy about Christ and showing the mystery revealed of how things would be going forward ( Satan on earth , Christ in heaven until he returns when all enemies are beneath his feet )

my point about revelation is that it’s understood through hearing the prophets voices pertaining to Christ thier witness there’s nothing new in revelation it is revealing and ordering a comprehensive understanding of Christ fulfilling all things promised

like this man child who has been promised to isreal and would rule all nations with a rod of iron

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the son of man who would be given the kingdom and would sit upon the throne of David in heaven

“And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

even David was prophetic about Christ he is always there on scripture from Eve to the end of revelation

“Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, …..Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:29-33‬ ‭KJV‬‬


the man child is the messiah king who was to rule all nations and who God would declare at baptism and transfiguration “ this is my son hear him “

revelation has condensed the truth into an apacolyptic vision ( revelation of what was hidden ) to shew forth what would be after

now that the son of man was upon the throne at the right hand of God

I’m not sure I’m able to understand what you have been saying about the son and father covenant I see God made a covenant beginning with Adam who was called his son and then repetitively made covenants through the Bible but all those roads and things were pretty cursors and prophecies foretelling the messiah

I sort of have come over time to believe that scripture answers and explains scripture and the thing that’s built from that becomes faith






“a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron:”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

This promise

“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

comes forth in Christ

“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:4-5‬ ‭

Eves seed who would crush the serpents head but also be stricken in his heel with a venomous bite this is revealed later

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Everything goes back to Christ and the biblical witness from beginning to end note in the end of the Bible it’s still referring to the same seed of promise only now it’s all revealed where as in the beginning it’s shroud in mystery and vague references like that to eve “ enmity between eves seed and the serpent he would crush the serpents power but also be stricken with a death bite ( going into death for us to redeem us from the serpents power to hold us there )

Revelation is speaking all of those things but showing us the after effects of what he’s done for us hallelujah ! Into the lord he has done so much hay was impossible to bring us home dear brother

“I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭

he’s opened the grave and purged the powers of hell over believers , he’s broken out bonds to fear and death , shattered the pains of death and shown life before our eyes amen !!

But as the promised seed was spoken of Eve beforehand in the beginning so here is our hope revealed even his name known !! All praises to his name , and the result and our looking forward

“He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭22:20-21‬ ‭

he has overcome all we could not by reason of sin which begat death to the creation , but Christ our glorious Lord has reconciled creation and it’s only a matter of die season and time until we look up and see him whether it comes as for Stephen on our last day , or if we remain until the final days of the earth were all going to see Jesus in glory who believed

sorry I got off track a bit

 

[Aaron56]

I'm following.

Pardon me, but this is merely an outline....

The mystery is the corporate Christ.

In the beginning, a woman was taken from the side of man.

"And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place."

And Adam, the son of God said, "This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh"

Eve, was the first son of God, son of man.

Later, the side of another man was opened, and the woman inserted.

"Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way opened for us through the curtain of His body..."

This is our insertion into Christ. "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones."
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.'
In the original covenant, between God and God, we are included in the Word as part of the begotten.

God said "I will not yield My glory to another"
But Jesus said, "I have given them the glory You gave Me..."

This is only possible because we are not "another".

The Word going forth from God is now "Son". This was foretold in Malachi when the hearts of the fathers would be turned to the sons, and the son's hearts turned to the fathers.

Lastly, the language of fathers and sons has always been among the apostles.

From Paul: "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out, “Abba, Father!”
From Paul: "For this reason I have sent Timothy to you, who is my beloved and faithful son in the Lord..."
From Paul: "But you know his proven character, that as a son with his father he served with me in the gospel."
From Paul: "To Timothy, a true son in the faith"
From Paul: "You therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus"
From Paul: "I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten while in my chains..."
From Paul: "...you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel"
From John: "My little children, these things I write to you..."
and many other references.

God is building His house. His family. It is by connecting fathers and sons in the faith.

 

[Aaron56]

The price of this covenant was paid from the foundation of the world, the point in the eternal realm when the Lamb was slain. This was the original covenant God made with God. It vested with Abraham.

“When God made His promise to Abraham, since He had no one greater to swear by, He swore by Himself, saying, “I will surely bless you and multiply your descendants.”

Jesus was the forerunner of this covenant:

“We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus our forerunner has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”

And we who are redeemed become the body of the Begotten:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
but a body You prepared for Me.”

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I’m understanding a bit more of what you are meaning to say thanks for the further explaination . I’m not really following the covenant between God and God and the opening of another mans side in which the woman is placed really but I’m understanding what you are saying and what your meaning to communicate

I’m not sure if I don’t understand God making a covenant with God , the rest of the fluidity of the point is going to register .

are you saying there’s a covenant before this one that God made with man ?

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26-29, 31‬ ‭

with this law of sure life

“And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:15-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not seeing a covenant between God and God given that there is only One God why would the creator , covenant with the creator ? And. Ot the creation he made from the earth which was given to man by this covenant ?

can you help me see where Hid made their covenant with God ? I’m not rejecting your thinking I just don’t understand it as to the scripture are you saying because Adam was made in Gods image ( both male and female ) that Adam is god ?

the covenant I recognize has to be what God said and with whom he Covenanted in this case man

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭115:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I think this Hearken is back to the original covenant between God the creator and man his creation ordained to oversee and tend to his creation as stewards under his governance and provision in covenant relationship with God we mankind began

“When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:

All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. O Lord our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭8:3-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Which also to me is referencing a figure of what was to come in Christ who became fully man in order to take mans dominion away from Satan to whom man gave it

Which reveals the connection to the priesthood

“But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. And again, I will put my trust in him.

And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭2:6-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


What am
I not grasping regarding the covenant between Gkd and God I think if I could get what your meaning there I could understand what you are saying

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The price of this covenant was paid from the foundation of the world, the point in the eternal realm when the Lamb was slain. This was the original covenant God made with God. It vested with Abraham.

“When God made His promise to Abraham, since He had no one greater to swear by, He swore by Himself, saying, “I will surely bless you and multiply your descendants.”

Jesus was the forerunner of this covenant:

“We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, where Jesus our forerunner has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever in the order of Melchizedek.”

And we who are redeemed become the body of the Begotten:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
but a body You prepared for Me.”

so you are counting this as a covenant God made with himself ?

“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


I’m seeing it as this

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice how it’s not “ father son and Holy Ghost “ ?

but rather father the word and holy ghost ?


and the word was with God and was God and was the creator of all things ?

I’m supposing that the son was not manifest until this happened

“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

to me I’m seeing the same God that was in the beginning , manifest himself in the flesh becoming the son born of a woman that was required to save us.

ultimately God is one , and Christ is God manifesting Himself ( God) in the realm of mankind so we who are of flesh and blood , could know him who is spirit

but the two are not seperate only heaven and earth are seperate so he has made himself known in the heavens ( the glorious one upon the throne ) and made himself known on earth ( the son standing at his right hand ) the Holy Ghost is his connection to us sent from heaven to those on earth.

I think I understand what you are saying and how you are looking at it and see some good value , I think the term God covenant of with God , sort of theee me off because I see only one God manifest in father ( heaven ) and son ( earth) who took part of mankind’s being in order to restore us to the heavenly things of spirit

“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Said God who was manifest in the flesh so we could see and beer and know him who is far above and beyond us but he came to make known jehovah to those in need of salvstion because man had become lost from thier inderstandkng and connection to God beforehand

So the word was first spoken forth from God through the law and prophets thkngs like these in the prophets

“Behold, the Lord's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness. We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes:

we stumble at noonday as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men. We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us. For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;

And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey:

and the Lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord. As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the Lord; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the Lord, from henceforth and for ever.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:1-2, 9-12, 14-17, 20-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the concept being God in heaven looked and saw there was no man to intercede for man so he himself spoke forth his own birth becoming what we needed because all was lost on our end we had died and become blind and dead to the things of heaven so we had faced death and despair and creation was doomed by man

“The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ 14

and so we see Jesus

“Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬


My whole idea is that what was spoken and foretold , shown in Moses patterns , references in the early days of creation , has been revealed in the New Testament

so like , the hidden and mysterious and unknowable God of the ot who spoke , has revealed himself in plain sight before us so we can know him and love him and follow him into life , and escape the damnation ahead for the first creation and all parts of it and become his children who is spirit

sort of like Jesus is the way God made home to him in the heavens like jacobs dream of the lord standing atop a golden ladder heaven opened and angels ascending and descending upon him , the way

 

[pottersclay]

So blessed by this thread. Thank you for posting it.

 

[Aaron56]

Ah, I see.

There are two realms: the temporal and the eternal. The eternal is not bound by time. Things simply ARE in that realm. In the fullness of time (you will find that phrase often in scripture) what is true in the eternal will appear in time. Often, a glimpse of what is in the eternal can be seen in the temporal realm as a shadow or a type. The OT is full of such references.

A covenant is meant to administrate an estate. In a covenant, there is party of the first and party of the second. Each side brings to the table the binding conditions that are sealed in the covenant. In the first covenant the party of the first was God the Father, the party of the second was God the Son. Man did not get a say and he did not have a part. Man had no part to play in the covenant. He was simply a third party beneficiary. He benefited from God's agreement with God by simply showing up.

God created man knowing that he would sin. When He declared "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.." He did with full knowledge that man, because of sin, could not reach the standard of His image and His likeness, man could not put on display the character and holiness of God. Adam was the son of God, having received his nature and likeness from God, his Father. Yet, because of sin, God's declaration, that man be one with Him, could not be fulfilled. This was the first covenant between God and God. This covenant never vested with Adam. He would be the son of God consequentially, but Adam could never bear the image and likeness of His father to the point of being one with Him.

So, a declaration was made to make man the sons of God in oneness with Him. And this was done in full knowledge that Adam would sin and could not meet the standard of oneness. Yet, before man was created, the condition that would reconcile man to the covenant, that man would bear the image and likeness of God, was already paid.

God the Son was slain from the foundation of the world:

"All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

God the Father, presented with this condition, agreed that anyone found in Christ would meet the fulfillment of the covenant by the grace of representation and through faith in Christ.

"For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus."

This RECONCILES man back to the original covenant. Reconciliation is to bring someone back to the their original, intended state. In this covenant, the state is to be one with God and to bear His image and likeness; to put on display the likeness of his Father in Heaven. The promise of this covenant was given to Abraham.

So, the covenant was sealed from the foundation of the world between God and God. Adam was created knowing that he nor his children could fulfill the covenant. Yet, the price of man's reconciliation was already paid. The promise of the covenant, that God was creating a nation of kings and priests, was given to Abraham. And, in the fullness of time, the payment for the covenant was displayed in the earth with Jesus dying for the sins of man and entering the Holy of Holies in the presence of God the Father. Now, through faith in Christ, man can be reconciled back to the original condition God intended for them: to be one with Him. By this, we become sons of promise, and thus the spiritual sons of Abraham, and sons of God, bearing His image and likeness.

This explains Hebrews 6:13-20

"For when God made a promise to Abraham, because He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself, saying, “Surely blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply you.” And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise. For men indeed swear by the greater, and an oath for confirmation is for them an end of all dispute. Thus God, determining to show more abundantly to the heirs of promise the immutability of His counsel, confirmed it by an oath, that by two immutable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we might have strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold of the hope set before us.

This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek."

We, then, become priests with this ministry: "That God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them..."

Peace,
Aaron56

 

[Blik]

You would think that when scripture speaks of being "under the law" and "under grace" that Christians would make that a way of helping understanding instead of something to separate Christians and make enemies. Because it means completely different things to different people, you would think that Christians would then unite with what they do understand and agree on and let the differences go. We can agree that we are saved through grace. We can agree on that the law outlines the sin that kills. That should be enough to unite us.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So blessed by this thread. Thank you for posting it.

you are most welcome dear brother , it’s always my pleasure to share things I think that have helped me ( only my own thoughts gathered from scripture ) but I believe that’s the key is to share together all that the lord has illuminated to each of us and then others weigh it’s value.

I’m blessed by your response here because our discussion regarding witnessing the gospel to the Jewish beholden to the law , is the reason I had bothered to share this thinking I was hoping it would offer you some thoughts on how to communicate with them a bit better or more powerfully just after we had discussed I remembered what Paul had done being a Pharisee knowing the law thoroughly when ministering to his countrymen of the old covenant

“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and thought that may give you a direction to pursue and wanted to give a few examples of what I think Paul was discussing with them being the witness of Christ Jesus in the law itself and prophets who came after.

I’m blessed that the lord had you run across this thread and hope it helps with what you are bearing regarding that witness we spoke of before in your thread