Is Michael God?

[HisKid]

VI. Jesus Christ Is God A. Explicit statements 1. Isa. 9:6; note 10:21. Translations which render "mighty hero," are inconsistent in their rendering of 10:21. Also note that Ezek. 32:21 is (a) not in the same context, as is Isa. 10:21, and (b) speaking of false gods, cf. I.G.5. above. 2. John 1:1 Even if Jesus is here called "a god" (as some have argued), since there is only one God, Jesus is that God. However, the "a god" rendering is incorrect. Other passages using the Greek word for God (theos) in the same construction are always rendered "God": Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38; John 8:54; Phil 2:13; Heb. 11:16. Passages in which a shift occurs from ho theos ("the God") to theos ("God") never imply a shift in meaning: Mark 12:27; Luke 20:37- 38; John 3:2; 13:3; Rom. 1:21; 1 Thess. 1:9; heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 4:10- 11 3. John 1:18. The best manuscripts have "the unique God" (monogenês, frequently rendered "only-begotten," actually means "one of a kind," "unique," though in the NT always in the context of a son or daughter). Even if one translates "only-begotten," the idea is not of a "begotten god" as opposed to an "unbegotten god." 4. John 20:28. Compare Rev. 4:11, where the same construction is used in the plural ("our") instead of the singular ("my"). See also Psa. 35:23. Note that Christ's response indicates that Thomas' acclamation was not wrong. Also note that John 20:17 does show that the Father was Jesus' "God" (due to Jesus becoming a man), but the words "my God" as spoken by Thomas later in the same chapter must mean no less than in v. 17. Thus, what the Father is to Jesus in His humanity, Jesus is to Thomas (and therefore to us as well). 5. Acts 20:28: "the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." The variant readings (e.g. "the church of the Lord") show that the original was understood to mean "His own blood," not "the blood of His own [Son]" (since otherwise no one would have thought to change it). Thus all other renderings are attempts to evade the startling clarity and meaning of this passage. 6. Rom. 9:5. While grammatically this is not the only possible interpretation, the consistent form of doxologies in Scripture, as well as the smoothest reading of the text, supports the identification of Christ as "God" in this verse. 7. Titus 2:13. Grammatically and contextually, this is one of the strongest proof-texts for the deity of Christ. Sharp's first rule, properly understood, proves that the text should be translated "our great God and Savior" (cf. same construction in Luke 20:37; Rev. 1:6; and many other passages). Note also that Paul always uses the word "manifestation" ("appearing") of Christ: 2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2. Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8. 8. Heb. 1:8. The rendering, "God is your throne," is nonsense - God is not a throne, He is the one who sits on the throne! Also, "God is your throne," if taken to mean God is the source of one's rule, could be said about any angelic ruler - but Hebrews 1 is arguing that Jesus is superior to the angels. 9. 2 Pet. 1:1. The same construction is used here as in Titus 2:13; see the parallel passages in 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18. 10. 1 John 5:20. Note that the most obvious antecedent for "this" is Jesus Christ. Also note that the "eternal life" is Christ, as can be seen from 1:2. B. Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh 1. Rom. 10:9-13: Note the repeated "for," which links these verses closely together. The "Lord" of 10:13 must be the "Lord" of 10:9, 12. 2. Phil. 2:9-11. In context, the "name that is above every name" is "Lord" (vs. 11), i.e., Jehovah. 3. Heb. 1:10: Here God the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," in a quotation from Psa. 102:25 (cf. 102:24, where the person addressed is called "God"). Since here the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," this cannot be explained away as a text in which a creature addresses Christ as God/Lord in a merely representational sense. 4. 1 Pet. 2:3-4: This verse is nearly an exact quotation of Psa. 34:8a, where "Lord" is Jehovah. From 1 Pet. 2:4-8 it is also clear that "the Lord" in v. 3 is Jesus. 5. 1 Pet. 3:14-15: these verses are a clear reference to Isa. 8:12-13, where the one who is to be regarded as holy is Jehovah. 6. Texts where Jesus is spoken of as the "one Lord" (cf. Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29): 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:5; cf. Rom. 10:12; 1 Cor. 12:5. C. Jesus has the titles of God 1. Titles belonging only to God a. The first and the last: Rev. 1:17; 22:13; cf. Isa. 44:6 b. King of kings and Lord of lords: 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16 2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God a. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; 1 John 4:14; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; etc.; cf. Isa. 43.11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Psa. 118:14, 21 b. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Psa. 23:1; Isa. 40:11 c. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Isa. 44:8 D. Jesus received the honors due to God alone 1. Honor: John 5:23 2. Love: Matt. 10:37 3. Prayer: John 14:14 (text debated, but in any case it is Jesus who answers the prayer); Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 46); Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where "the Lord" must be Jesus, cf. v. 9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; etc. 4. Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 28:17; Heb. 1:6 (cf. Psa. 97:7); cf. Matt 4:10 5. Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Rev. 22:13 6. Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13 7. Faith: John 3:16; 14:1; etc. E. Jesus does the works of God 1. Creation: John 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14 (where archê probably means ruler); on "through" and "in" cf. Rom. 11:36; Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Isa. 44:24 2. Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12 3. Salvation: a. In General: See C.2.a. above b. Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against Him. 4. All of them: John 5:17-29 (including judgment, cf. Matt. 25:31- 46; 2 Cor. 5:10) F. Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God 1. All of them: John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:15; 2:9; Heb. 1:3 2. Self-existent: John 5:26 3. Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); 13:8 4. Eternal: John 1:1; 8:58; 17:5; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2 5. Omnipresent: Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11 6. Omniscient: John 16:30; 21:17; cf. 2:23-24 7. Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27 G. Jesus is "equal with God" 1. John 5:18: Although John is relating what the Jews understood Jesus to be claiming, the context shows they were basically right: In v. 17 claimed to be exempt from the Sabbath along with His Father, and in 5:19-29 Jesus claimed to do all of the world of the Father and to deserve the same honor as the Father 2. Phil. 2:6: Jesus did not attempt to seize recognition by the world as being equal with God, but attained that recognition by humbling himself and being exalted by the Father (vv. 7-11) H. Jesus is the Son of God 1. "Son" in Scripture can mean simply one possessing the nature of something, whether literal or figurative (e.g. "Son of man," "sons of thunder," "sons of disobedience," cf. Mark 3:7; Eph. 2:1). 2. Usually when "son of" is used in relation to a person (son of man, son of Abraham, son of David, etc.) the son possesses the nature of his father. 3. Jesus is clearly not the literal Son of God, i.e., He was not physically procreated by God. 4. On the other hand, Jesus is clearly the Son of God in a unique sense (cf. "only-begotten son," John 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1 John 4:9) and in a preeminent sense (i.e. the term is more fitting for Him than for anyone else). 5. Scripture is explicit that the Son possesses God's essence or nature (cf. F. above). 6. Jesus' repeated claim to be the Son of God was consistently understood by the Jewish leaders as a blasphemous claim to equality with God, an understanding Jesus never denied: John 5:17-23; 8:58-59; 10:30-39; 19:7; Matt. 26:63-65. 7. Jesus is therefore by nature God's Son, not God's creation or God's servant; Jesus is God's Son who became a servant for our sake and for the Father's glory (John 13:13-15; 17:4; Phil. 2:6-11; Heb. 1:4-13; 3:1-6; 5:8; etc.). I. Objections 1. Prov. 8:22: This text is not a literal description of Christ, but a poetic personification of wisdom (cf. all of Prov. 1-9, esp. 8:12-21; 9:1-6), poetically saying that God "got" His wisdom before He did

https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

Spam much?

 

[HisKid]

Wow, that is a lot of scripture to unpack! Perhaps you'd want to publish it in book form? As to the Trinity, there is the scripture where God says, "This is my son, in whom I am well pleased". Sadly the Holy Spirit remains obscure, and I don't know why. I'm pretty peaceful about whether there is one person or three. We'll see sooner or later.

Calvary Chapel is one of the churches that threw me out. It is doubtful that I could walk into any church except the Unitarians and not be asked to leave. It's been good for me and prodded me to doing lots of study and praying alone. Now with Covid, that is doubly reinforced. Don't care to alarm folk, but I think that we are at the end.

Why did a Calvary Chapel throw you out? That is EXTREMELY rare.

 

[Aaron56]

There certainly is a mystery to the nature of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. From my perspective, God is my Father. Jesus is my brother, we are adelphos, from the same womb. He is also my Lord and my friend. The Spirit mostly describes His natural state of being. He, God, is a spirit and He is the Father of my spirit.

From my personal life: to my wife I am “husband” and “friend”; to my children, father; to my siblings, brother; my parents, son, and grandson to my grandparents. Yet, I am one person. But, because of my position within many relationships, I cannot say I am a singular entity. I am several. Yet, I know I am one person.

I think, because of our divisions, there is something about oneness that alludes us. But the prayer of Jesus will be answered:

“I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me,and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.”

 

[HisKid]

There certainly is a mystery to the nature of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. From my perspective, God is my Father. Jesus is my brother, we are adelphos, from the same womb. He is also my Lord and my friend. The Spirit mostly describes His natural state of being. He, God, is a spirit and He is the Father of my spirit.

From my personal life: to my wife I am “husband” and “friend”; to my children, father; to my siblings, brother; my parents, son, and grandson to my grandparents. Yet, I am one person. But, because of my position within many relationships, I cannot say I am a singular entity. I am several. Yet, I know I am one person.

I think, because of our divisions, there is something about oneness that alludes us. But the prayer of Jesus will be answered:

“I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me,and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.”

Do you not believe that all that belong to Him are already One?

 

[Aaron56]

Do you not believe that all that belong to Him are already One?

Figuratively, yes. But the proof text has not occurred: “That the world may believe that You sent Me.”

 

[Katia]

There certainly is a mystery to the nature of God, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. From my perspective, God is my Father. Jesus is my brother, we are adelphos, from the same womb. He is also my Lord and my friend. The Spirit mostly describes His natural state of being. He, God, is a spirit and He is the Father of my spirit.

From my personal life: to my wife I am “husband” and “friend”; to my children, father; to my siblings, brother; my parents, son, and grandson to my grandparents. Yet, I am one person. But, because of my position within many relationships, I cannot say I am a singular entity. I am several. Yet, I know I am one person.

I think, because of our divisions, there is something about oneness that alludes us. But the prayer of Jesus will be answered:

“I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me,and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me.”

There is also Scripture that states Jesus and satan are brothers. I was quite upset when I heard that, It is quite confusing to me.

 

[HisKid]

There is also Scripture that states Jesus and satan are brothers. I was quite upset when I heard that, It is quite confusing to me.

Where is this Scripture that states Jesus and satan are brothers? I've never read this.

 

[Deuteronomy]

There is also Scripture that states Jesus and satan are brothers. I was quite upset when I heard that, It is quite confusing to me.

Hello Katia, while I believe that there is a LDS teaching to that effect, the Bible neither says nor insinuates that they (Jesus and Satan) are brothers. Like us, Satan (the head of the fallen angels) is a creature, and the Lord Jesus is his Creator .. e.g. John 1:1-3, so they cannot be brothers (physically or spiritually).

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - I suppose I should also mention that LDS/Mormons are NOT Christians.

John 1​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

2 He was in the beginning with God.​

3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.​

​

Colossians 1​

16 By Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or ​

dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him.​

17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.​

​

 

[Katia]

Hello Katia, while I believe that there is a LDS teaching to that effect, the Bible neither says nor insinuates that they (Jesus and Satan) are brothers. Like us, Satan (the head of the fallen angels) is a creature, and the Lord Jesus is his Creator .. e.g. John 1:1-3, so they cannot be brothers (physically or spiritually).

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - I suppose I should also mention that LDS/Mormons are NOT Christians.

John 1​

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

2 He was in the beginning with God.​

3 All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.​

​

Colossians 1​

16 By Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or ​

dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created by Him and for Him.​

17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.​

​

Hi:
You are going to make me work aren't you. I was sure that I saw that in the KJV but I am not infallible. My searches keep routing me back to the Mormons. I was a Mormon for a while. Sorry to spread error. They also teach that many will get planets of their own and be Gods. Hmmmm

 

[Dino246]

Hi:
You are going to make me work aren't you. I was sure that I saw that in the KJV but I am not infallible. My searches keep routing me back to the Mormons. I was a Mormon for a while. Sorry to spread error. They also teach that many will get planets of their own and be Gods. Hmmmm

I appreciate that you retracted your error. It's a good idea to find the verse(s) that support(s) your claim, and post them. Bible Gateway is a great help in this regard... biblegateway.com.

 

[Katia]

I use Biblegateway often. It is much easier than my old 40lb Strong's Concordance. I was told, incorrectly, that the Mormons use the KJV and now that appears to be incorrect.

 

[rayzor]

I use Biblegateway often. It is much easier than my old 40lb Strong's Concordance. I was told, incorrectly, that the Mormons use the KJV and now that appears to be incorrect.

They still do. Along with there other books.Its king James with Josph smith commentary.There book says we have the truth and the word of god

 

[laymen]

Does anyone here believe that Michael is God? I think SDA's believe that.

Some believe this but its is not the official believe of the SDA Church.

 

[laymen]

27 Fundamental Beliefs of Seventh-day Adventists. File: gc27.htm (sdanet.org)

 

[Katia]

They still do. Along with there other books.Its king James with Josph smith commentary.There book says we have the truth and the word of god

I don't want to get into attacking them, so reluctantly I'll say this. One Sunday in Sunday school, something was said that conflicted with the KJV, I shared the Scripture reference and was told that the KJV was good in as much as it is translated correctly. They value the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great price equally with the KJV. That was not acceptable to me and not long after I resigned.

 

[rayzor]

Does anyone here believe that Michael is God? I think SDA's believe that.

Duckybill no they do not.they had a prophet called "Ellen white"She said 1 thing that was not true. But still kind of true. That the 2 witnesses where the new an Oldtestament!

 

[Deuteronomy]

They also teach that many will get planets of their own and be Gods. Hmmmm

There is much that is appealing about certain LDS beliefs, especially if you are a Sci/Fi fan like I am

The rub comes when you are both a Sci/Fi fan AND a Christian (who is even moderately acquainted with the truth of God's word), because when you learn what they (the LDS) actually teach/believe, it comes down to them being wrong or the Bible being wrong in more than just a few cases.

I'm glad that you are looking into these things/seeking to know the truth. Keep up the good work

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[Katia]

There is much that is appealing about certain LDS beliefs, especially if you are a Sci/Fi fan like I am

The rub comes when you are both a Sci/Fi fan AND a Christian (who is even moderately acquainted with the truth of God's word), because when you learn what they (the LDS) actually teach/believe, it comes down to them being wrong or the Bible being wrong in more than just a few cases.

I'm glad that you are looking into these things/seeking to know the truth. Keep up the good work

God bless you!

~Deut

Thank you.
I am not involved with the LDS any more though must face that they helped me at a time when I had failed so badly that I wanted to end it. No one is all bad.

I'm retired and write Sci Fi. Right now I am working on a story in which the people that Abraham met return to Earth. The going is slow.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hello again @Katia, I'm glad to hear that God used the Mormons to help you when you needed help, though I'm sorry to hear that you had come to such a low point in your life that you wanted it to end Perhaps you will return the favor someday by helping them find the truth about living God, and the way to eternal life

~Deut
p.s. - Abraham met many people. Which ones are the ones who will be returning to Earth in your story (if you don't mind me asking)

 

[Katia]

I am confused about life and failed spectacularly and in ways that were shameful. There were mistakes I made that can not be undone, though I don't expect anyone to understand that. Amazingly, I got through it all with no criminal record, and today live a comfortable though lonely life. I am where God put me.