Sabbath

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Magenta said:
I need to ask what you mean by "law." Do you mean the 613 mitzvot?
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I mean all intsructions given by the Father to mankind. From "be fruitful and multiply".... to the mosaic laws.... the commandments.... Holy days.... Sabbaths.... etc.

Of course all laws weren't given to all people for all times. There are laws given just to one individual... some for men, some for women, some for priests... some for a specific time and place.... and some for all to carry out throughout their generations forever.
 
MalikB said:
I mean all intsructions given by the Father to mankind. From "be fruitful and multiply".... to the mosaic laws.... the commandments.... Holy days.... Sabbaths.... etc.

Of course all laws weren't given to all people for all times. There are laws given just to one individual... some for men, some for women, some for priests... some for a specific time and place.... and some for all to carry out throughout their generations forever.
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Are these the laws God promised to write on people's hearts?

Perhaps mentioning that the understanding of the law was quite faulty in Biblical times...

Since according to the top priests of Jesus' day, He was a blasphemer and broke the Sabbath.
 
Magenta said:
Are these the laws God promised to write on people's hearts?

Perhaps mentioning that the understanding of the law was quite faulty in Biblical times...

Since according to the top priests of Jesus' day, He was a blasphemer and broke the Sabbath.
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As far as the law being written on peoples hearts, I look at that to mean that those people will be keeping a lot of the law without having actually seen it.. (not killing, stealing, cheating, etc). I believe that this same writing on their hearts will allow them to recognize and accept other portions of the law when their time comes.

Yes... I don't believe the Messiah came to teach a new law. I believe he taught how the law was always meant to be kept in the first place.
 
MalikB said:
As far as the law being written on peoples hearts, I look at that to mean that those people will be keeping a lot of the law without having actually seen it.. (not killing, stealing, cheating, etc). I believe that this same writing on their hearts will allow them to recognize and accept other portions of the law when their time comes.

Yes... I don't believe the Messiah came to teach a new law. I believe he taught how the law was always meant to be kept in the first place.
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The laws written on our hearts are not the 613. Not even close...
 
Magenta said:
The laws written on our hearts are not the 613. Not even close...
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You are entitled to your beliefs....

With it being written on our hearts... its clearly spiritual to me, not physical (the letter of the law). So I wasn't saying we will automatically know however many laws there are in Torah. The spirit of the law means its purpose.... Mat 22 37-40. I believe that if that is truly written on our hearts we will eventually recognize that the entire law falls under those categories.
 
MalikB said:
You are entitled to your beliefs....

With it being written on our hearts... its clearly spiritual to me, not physical (the letter of the law). So I wasn't saying we will automatically know however many laws there are in Torah. The spirit of the law means its purpose.... Mat 22 37-40. I believe that if that is truly written on our hearts we will eventually recognize that the entire law falls under those categories.
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Do you believe 613 laws have been written on your heart?

You already indicated in the negative.

So this pretense that it is solely my belief is unwarranted.

"It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers... "
 
Magenta said:
Do you believe 613 laws have been written on your heart?

You already indicated in the negative.

So this pretense that it is solely my belief is unwarranted.

"It will not be like the covenant I made with their fathers... "
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The 613 (or however many) laws were never given to all people to carry out forever.... but certain laws were.

Also... new covenant does not mean new laws.
 
MalikB said:
I'm more interested in talking to the Messiah about "when heaven and earth dissapear".
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i did not say u had talk 2 Paul before Jesus or even that u had 2 talk 2 Paul.Romans 7:17 Now it is no longer me that sins but the sin in me.well at least i did not mean it that way
 
MalikB said:
The 613 (or however many) laws were never given to all people to carry out forever.... but certain laws were.

Also... new covenant does not mean new laws.
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The new covenant is built on better promises partly (and a large part at that) because we are
not required to follow the 613, of which Peter said none could. That means none of those to
whom it was given. So you have not yet identified which laws were to be carried out?

When I asked what you meant by the law, you said, "I mean all intsructions given by the Father
to mankind. From "be fruitful and multiply".... to the mosaic laws.... the commandments.... Holy days....
Sabbaths.... etc. Of course all laws weren't given to all people for all times."

Since the new covenant will "not be like the covenant I made with their fathers"
(those are God's words ;)), how do you think if differs if the laws have not changed?

It seems contradictory to say parts of the law no longer apply and say at the same time the law
has not changed. The Mosaic law included all 613 mitzvot and was considered to be a whole from
which nothing could be subtracted or ignored. You refer to holy days and Sabbaths as part of
the law, when Sabbath keeping was not mentioned as part of the New Covenant. That is because
the Sabbath rest refers to Jesus, and the fact that we do not work for our salvation :)
 
MalikB said:
Yes about the High Priest... no about the law as a whole.

What were the Levites responsible for? Was it not animal sacrifice?

The penalties for breaking the law are sometimes referred to as law.... however, we know that they are penalties. There is a difference between a speed limit and the fine associated with breaking the speed limit.
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So that's what the High Priest was responsible for? Animal sacrifice?

Well, keep studying.
 
Magenta said:
The new covenant is built on better promises partly (and a large part at that) because we are
not required to follow the 613, of which Peter said none could. That means none of those to
whom it was given. So you have not yet identified which laws were to be carried out?

When I asked what you meant by the law, you said, "I mean all intsructions given by the Father
to mankind. From "be fruitful and multiply".... to the mosaic laws.... the commandments.... Holy days....
Sabbaths.... etc. Of course all laws weren't given to all people for all times."

Since the new covenant will "not be like the covenant I made with their fathers"
(those are God's words ;)), how do you think if differs if the laws have not changed?

It seems contradictory to say parts of the law no longer apply and say at the same time the law
has not changed. The Mosaic law included all 613 mitzvot and was considered to be a whole from
which nothing could be subtracted or ignored. You refer to holy days and Sabbaths as part of
the law, when Sabbath keeping was not mentioned as part of the New Covenant. That is because
the Sabbath rest refers to Jesus, and the fact that we do not work for our salvation :)
Click to expand...

I look at the covenant like a lease. The Messiah paid the past due rent so that a new lease could be signed.... this does not mean the no dog or no smoking policies no longer apply.

The first covenant had earthly penalties (curse of the law) associated with breaking the laws (sinning). The Messiah's body paid this debt. That to me is what has changed regarding law.... not the laws themselves, but the penalties associated with breaking them.

There is no specific new covenant list of laws because it was known that the coming Messiah would have had to have been in line with the Father. He taught from the torah and the prophets... and corrected the misinterpretations the people had.

If there is not a new set of laws, then there would be no need to mention every law from the OT. I think Matthew 5:18-19 is clear enough though.

I do believe that there are indications in the NT that we are to keep the Sabbaths and other laws, but some of them are misinterpreted to mean the opposite of what they are saying. (E.g. Col 2:16)

Works (keeping law) are supposed to represent our faith. We don't work FOR our salvation. We follow law out of love, honor, respect, and trust in our Father. The spirit of the the law is found in the "two great commandments".... its the WHY we do what we do. If we are trying to keep the law for SELF then we really aren't keeping the law at all.
 
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