The Atonement: What did it REALLY Accomplish?
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Nope ... that is not "precisely what the verse tells us".
The Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Go back to Romans 5:1-2 to find out to whom Romans 5:10 relates:
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Those who do not reject the propitiation are the ones who are justified by faith and now have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ ...
Those who are justified by faith (Rom 5:1) are the reconciled ones:
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Scripture is not false. What is false is your dogmatic eisegesis which is steeped in limited atonement.brightfame52 said:
2 Corinthians 5:19-20 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
That there are some who reject God's Word after one of God's ambassadors (Greek presbeuō) speaks God's Word to them does not equal "the World in 2 Cor 5:19 is limited to only those that are actually Saved".
Matthew 10:
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
Nope ?? That Christs death reconciled to God those He died for is plainly stated in the scripture Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Your Thread denies free will, which denies truth.
That is what we are "witnessing" you do here, on it, and not just you.
See, according to your theology, God is a cosmic Idiot who requires us to believe on Jesus after we are born, yet, He has already saved us before we showed up.
So, God is nutz, ........ or the "predestined elect" hyper calvinist theology, has some theological insanity built right in... that has deceived you and many others.
Paul said that He came to preach the Cross to allow people to BELIEVE in JESUS.
So, why would he need to do that, if God has already chosen who will be born again?
Why would this verse exist.....>"The work of God is that you BELIEVE on Jesus, whom God SENT".......if God chooses you for heaven and you dont have to believe anything, as how could you believe if you dont have any free will to make a CHOICE?
Why would God have sent Adam and Bride out of the Garden, for disobeying,..... if in fact Adam had no free will to disobey and God made Him eat that apple?
Why would God have cast Lucifer out of heaven if Lucifer had no free will to decide to pursue iniquity?
Why would God hold Hitler accountable for 6 million dead Jews, if God pre-determined Hiter to do it before He was born?
How can God be just and honest and true, if God Almighty holds you accountable for what you are pre-determined to do, and have no CHOICE but to do it?
Christ's atonement accomplished my eternal Salvation, exactly the same as it does for all the Born Again.
Christs atonement accomplished the eternal salvation for everyone of the Sheep He died for, 100%
Again and again, brightfame52, you pluck a verse out of its context in order to prop up your dogmatic eisegesis which is steeped in limited atonement.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
Go back to Romans 5:1-2 to find out to whom Romans 5:10 relates:
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Those who do not reject the propitiation are the ones who are justified by faith and now have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ ...
Those who are justified by faith (Rom 5:1) are the reconciled ones:
Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
And please recall the discussion we had a couple of months ago concerning Romans 5:11 and the fact that we receive (Greek lambanō) the atonement:
Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
HELPS Word-studies:
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.
It put away the sins of those He died for !
The Lord Jesus Christ, the God Man, accomplished this also for those He died for, He took away their sins for it is written 1Jn 3:5
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Jn 1:29
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Dan 9:24
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
They shall be no more Jer says Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve. Which is the Election of Grace !
Now this Taking away of Sin is also called propitiation. The sins, iniquities, transgressions of all for whom Christ died for have been taken out the way, having been nailed to His Cross, He in their behalf has satisfied all of God's law and Justice, for all their sins, past, present, and future, so that their sins are gone , that is propitiation 1 Jn 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Jn 4:10
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
by this, those God Loved, He took away their sins, that is the punishment they should have suffered for them !
So here is the question ! Did Christ by His Death actually put away sin [propitiate] of all those He died for, or did He only make it possible for them to be put away ? Those who follow error and a man made Gospel teach that Christ's Death only possibly, contingently put away all the sins of all those Christ died for, for they teach many that Christ died for, shall still die in their sins because they did not perform a condition, and so the sins of theirs that had been taken away and forgiven by the blood of Christ were given back to them, so that God can satisfy again His Law and Justice, but this time on them, God forgetting about He punished them once already in Christ. Now of course we know this is false teaching because it makes God Unjust to Christ, who He already Punished and it makes Him Mutable and subject to change, which is a false concept of the True God, for He tells His Chosen Remnant Mal 3:6112
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Its a done deal, regardless of the antichrist ministers, all those whom Christ died for, He put away their sins forever.
The Lord Jesus Christ, the God Man, accomplished this also for those He died for, He took away their sins for it is written 1Jn 3:5
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Jn 1:29
29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Dan 9:24
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
They shall be no more Jer says Jer 50:20
In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve. Which is the Election of Grace !
Now this Taking away of Sin is also called propitiation. The sins, iniquities, transgressions of all for whom Christ died for have been taken out the way, having been nailed to His Cross, He in their behalf has satisfied all of God's law and Justice, for all their sins, past, present, and future, so that their sins are gone , that is propitiation 1 Jn 2:2
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 Jn 4:10
10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
by this, those God Loved, He took away their sins, that is the punishment they should have suffered for them !
So here is the question ! Did Christ by His Death actually put away sin [propitiate] of all those He died for, or did He only make it possible for them to be put away ? Those who follow error and a man made Gospel teach that Christ's Death only possibly, contingently put away all the sins of all those Christ died for, for they teach many that Christ died for, shall still die in their sins because they did not perform a condition, and so the sins of theirs that had been taken away and forgiven by the blood of Christ were given back to them, so that God can satisfy again His Law and Justice, but this time on them, God forgetting about He punished them once already in Christ. Now of course we know this is false teaching because it makes God Unjust to Christ, who He already Punished and it makes Him Mutable and subject to change, which is a false concept of the True God, for He tells His Chosen Remnant Mal 3:6112
For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Its a done deal, regardless of the antichrist ministers, all those whom Christ died for, He put away their sins forever.
Again, you may not see it, but those whom Christ died for are said to be reconciled to God by that death, even while they were enemies. Then further, those same ones shall be saved by His Life, Read Rom 5:10 carefully
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
John 3:14-16 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!! whatever source you're quoting from is error (and I'm not referring to the Scripture verses you post ... I'm referring to the footnote numbers you add to some of your posts ... that is the erroneous "source").
Read Rom 5:10 within the context. Quit ripping verses out of the context in which they sit in order to prop up your erroneous doctrine.
Romans 5:
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received [Greek lambánō] the atonement.
READ YOUR BIBLE!!!
By it, He Justified Many !
Isa 53:11
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
The ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
Now did Christ by His Death alone, Justify Many ? As you can see that some translations render it " accounted righteous"
This means that by His Death, many shall be accounted Righteous, or Justified. Paul preached the very same thing in Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The word for righteous in Rom 5:19 is a greek word meaning Just, which is short for Justification or Justified When scripture says that a man is Just as Joseph Matt 1:19, it means he was Justified before God by the obedience of Christ, even though in time He had yet to die. When scripture states that that Cornelius was a Just Man Acts 10:22, it means He was Justified before God, also by the Obedience of the One Christ. Paul preached that believers had been Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood or His Obedience unto Death, we shall be saved from wrath through him.114
However, the unfaithful preachers teaches that Justification before and with God was made only a possibility for all men without exception and that man , not Christ's Blood alone, is what causes Justification before God to become a factual reality, mans freewill they say accomplished that ! Now many of the opposer's of the Truth like to hi jack Rom 5:1 as proof that man must contribute his faith to Christ's Work, in order to be Justified before God, for Christ's Blood alone did not quite do it to hear them say it; However they are culpable of wresting scripture to their own destruction, but what Rom 5:1 means by being Justified by or out of Faith, is that God Given Faith, the Fruit of Regeneration or New Birth, reveals to one their Justified status before God, that Justification that was declared by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead Rom 4:25, this their Justification and Righteousness was established out of the Faithfulness or Obedience of Christ Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
unfaithful preachers deny this Truth of the Justification before God of all for whom Christ died !
Isa 53:11
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
The ESV Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant, make many to be accounted righteous, and he shall bear their iniquities.
Now did Christ by His Death alone, Justify Many ? As you can see that some translations render it " accounted righteous"
This means that by His Death, many shall be accounted Righteous, or Justified. Paul preached the very same thing in Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
The word for righteous in Rom 5:19 is a greek word meaning Just, which is short for Justification or Justified When scripture says that a man is Just as Joseph Matt 1:19, it means he was Justified before God by the obedience of Christ, even though in time He had yet to die. When scripture states that that Cornelius was a Just Man Acts 10:22, it means He was Justified before God, also by the Obedience of the One Christ. Paul preached that believers had been Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood or His Obedience unto Death, we shall be saved from wrath through him.114
However, the unfaithful preachers teaches that Justification before and with God was made only a possibility for all men without exception and that man , not Christ's Blood alone, is what causes Justification before God to become a factual reality, mans freewill they say accomplished that ! Now many of the opposer's of the Truth like to hi jack Rom 5:1 as proof that man must contribute his faith to Christ's Work, in order to be Justified before God, for Christ's Blood alone did not quite do it to hear them say it; However they are culpable of wresting scripture to their own destruction, but what Rom 5:1 means by being Justified by or out of Faith, is that God Given Faith, the Fruit of Regeneration or New Birth, reveals to one their Justified status before God, that Justification that was declared by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead Rom 4:25, this their Justification and Righteousness was established out of the Faithfulness or Obedience of Christ Rom 5:19b
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
unfaithful preachers deny this Truth of the Justification before God of all for whom Christ died !
Again, quit ripping Romans 5:10 out of the context within which it sits in order to prop up your dogma.
Understand the words within the verse, the verse within the immediate context, the immediate context within the book in which it sits, the book within the whole scope of Scripture.
Romans 5:10 does not explain a "promise made to the reconciled while enemies".
Romans 5:10 reveals the love of God toward all mankind ...
Romans 5:
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
The ungodly are the descendants of Adam ... all descendants of Adam, including you. As much as you want to believe you are somehow excluded from the sea of humanity (the ungodly) because of your erroneous belief concerning what God means concerning "elect"/"election", you are just as much a part of the ungodly as any other descendant of Adam.
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
It is the love of God which is exhibited in these verses ...
vs 8 - God commendeth His love toward us (the ungodly of vs 6). The word "commendeth" is translated from the Greek word synistáō which refers to facts "lining up" with each other to support (commend) something.
The facts which support God's love toward mankind (the ungodly of vs 6) are:
vs 8 - Christ died for us while we were sinners (not when we were righteous or good - vs 7).
vs 9 - we are now justified and we shall be saved from wrath through Him (Christ).
vs 10 - we have been reconciled to God and shall be saved by His life.
Because we understand God's love toward mankind (the ungodly of vs 6), we joy in God as we actively take hold of [lambánō] the atonement:
Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received [Greek lambánō] the atonement.
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.
nope ... I follow the instruction in Romans 5:11:
Romans 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received [Greek lambánō] the atonement.
2983 lambánō (from the primitive root, lab-, meaning "actively lay hold of to take or receive," see NAS dictionary) – properly, to lay hold by aggressively (actively) accepting what is available (offered). 2983/lambánō ("accept with initiative") emphasizes the volition (assertiveness) of the receiver.
Dan 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
For all those Christ died for, by that His Death, He has finished their Transgressions, and has made an end to their sins, as to all the legal guilt it can bring against them in the Judgment, and He hath brought in to them and imputed to them Everlasting Righteousness, and they shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and as the stars for ever and ever. 115
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
For all those Christ died for, by that His Death, He has finished their Transgressions, and has made an end to their sins, as to all the legal guilt it can bring against them in the Judgment, and He hath brought in to them and imputed to them Everlasting Righteousness, and they shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and as the stars for ever and ever. 115