predestination vs freewill
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True. And we are, when referred to as the sons and daughters of God, the adopted ones.
Job 1:6 KJV Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
John 1:
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Made His Dwelling among Us
(Psalm 84:1-12)
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Job 1:6 KJV Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
John 1:
9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word Made His Dwelling among Us
(Psalm 84:1-12)
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. 15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Precious friend, FGC, According To Scripture, you are on the right track, ie:
God's Simple Will:
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in
ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered us from so great
a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He will yet deliver us;
(2 Corinthians 1:9-10 KJB!) = The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation:
Precious friend(s), is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing
God's Differences Between "HIS Relationship With us," And
"our fellowship with HIM!"?
God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:
(1) Past Tense = "God delivered us from so great a death":
God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who humbly:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)
"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits Of HIS
Precious And ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:
All sins Forgiven, HIS Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PENALTY of sin!}
Justification = "God delivered us from so great a death"
{PAST Tense}, First, And, THEN:
(2) PRESENT tense = "God DOTH Deliver":
The believer SHOULD do "good works" {Which will NEVER
EQUAL CHRIST's TOTAL PAYMENT For the above PENALTY of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for HIM,
having "been Called into fellowship With HIM!" Amen?:
We "work out OUR OWN salvation" {This SHOULD Be a
lifetime of DELIVERANCE From the POWER of sin!}
Sanctification = "God DOTH Deliver" {present tense}:
(2a) "Present your body a living sacrifice" To The LORD
(Romans 12:1-2 KJB!):
(2b) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
as yourself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)
(2c) Study HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, to show
yourself Approved Unto God! (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)
Eternal Results: reward {or loss} (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!),
ruling and reigning With CHRIST, Which Will FINALLY Be At
The Judgment Day:
(3) Future Tense = "God Will Yet Deliver":
CHRIST's GLORIFICATION of All "members" Of HIS Body!!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PRESENCE of sin!}
"God Will Yet Deliver" {Future Tense} - Amen?
-------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion = BIG Differences Between:
God's Relationship With us, And our fellowship with HIM!
Correct?
More here:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will:
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in
ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who delivered us from so great
a death, and doth deliver: in Whom we trust that He will yet deliver us;
(2 Corinthians 1:9-10 KJB!) = The THREE Tenses Of God's ETERNAL Salvation:
Precious friend(s), is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing
God's Differences Between "HIS Relationship With us," And
"our fellowship with HIM!"?
God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:
(1) Past Tense = "God delivered us from so great a death":
God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who humbly:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)
"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits Of HIS
Precious And ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:
All sins Forgiven, HIS Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PENALTY of sin!}
Justification = "God delivered us from so great a death"
{PAST Tense}, First, And, THEN:
(2) PRESENT tense = "God DOTH Deliver":
The believer SHOULD do "good works" {Which will NEVER
EQUAL CHRIST's TOTAL PAYMENT For the above PENALTY of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for HIM,
having "been Called into fellowship With HIM!" Amen?:
We "work out OUR OWN salvation" {This SHOULD Be a
lifetime of DELIVERANCE From the POWER of sin!}
Sanctification = "God DOTH Deliver" {present tense}:
(2a) "Present your body a living sacrifice" To The LORD
(Romans 12:1-2 KJB!):
(2b) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
as yourself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)
(2c) Study HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, to show
yourself Approved Unto God! (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)
Eternal Results: reward {or loss} (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!),
ruling and reigning With CHRIST, Which Will FINALLY Be At
The Judgment Day:
(3) Future Tense = "God Will Yet Deliver":
CHRIST's GLORIFICATION of All "members" Of HIS Body!!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PRESENCE of sin!}
"God Will Yet Deliver" {Future Tense} - Amen?
-------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion = BIG Differences Between:
God's Relationship With us, And our fellowship with HIM!
Correct?
More here:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's Eternal Assurance
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
Isn't there more to it?
Here are a few....
First,,, its John Calvin who came up with the idea that Angels and Men are the same "Son" of God.
Yet.... the angles are not made in the "Image of God".........as there is no verse that says they are.....
Man, Adam, ... was made in the "image of God".
Adam was made on earth, out of DIRT....and do you find DIRT in heaven, being made into an Angel?
If so, its not stated in a bible verse., as that verse not exist.
Also, fallen angels and lucifer, are "sons of God", yet, why are then not allowed to be born again?
Notice that God does not call human's "angels", and He does not define angels or lucifer as "human", or "man".
Adam also sinned, same as Lucifer,. and we are a part of Adam, and we are allowed to be born again.
So, this "sons of God"" (angels and Lucifer) ....vs, the only begotten SON of God, who is Adam the 2nd.......and human beings who become Son's of God, by being restored into 1st Adam state....by the 2nd Adam...........is a different situation, regarding being a SON then you find with Angels., clearly.
Here are a few....
First,,, its John Calvin who came up with the idea that Angels and Men are the same "Son" of God.
Yet.... the angles are not made in the "Image of God".........as there is no verse that says they are.....
Man, Adam, ... was made in the "image of God".
Adam was made on earth, out of DIRT....and do you find DIRT in heaven, being made into an Angel?
If so, its not stated in a bible verse., as that verse not exist.
Also, fallen angels and lucifer, are "sons of God", yet, why are then not allowed to be born again?
Notice that God does not call human's "angels", and He does not define angels or lucifer as "human", or "man".
Adam also sinned, same as Lucifer,. and we are a part of Adam, and we are allowed to be born again.
So, this "sons of God"" (angels and Lucifer) ....vs, the only begotten SON of God, who is Adam the 2nd.......and human beings who become Son's of God, by being restored into 1st Adam state....by the 2nd Adam...........is a different situation, regarding being a SON then you find with Angels., clearly.
I don't see how you can state the above from anything I've said - it is not even remotely close.
Anyway, I am saying that being a "Christ Rejector" (your term) is a condition common to everyone every born on this earth until spiritual rebirth occurs - if it occurs. At spiritual rebirth sin is forgiven because of Christ's offering and nothing that we have done, or can do. Further, no one has the Holy Spirit at all within them until becoming born again
How do you believe that sin is forgiven?
Again, please clarify what you believe the role of the Savior is
Anyway, I am saying that being a "Christ Rejector" (your term) is a condition common to everyone every born on this earth until spiritual rebirth occurs - if it occurs. At spiritual rebirth sin is forgiven because of Christ's offering and nothing that we have done, or can do. Further, no one has the Holy Spirit at all within them until becoming born again
How do you believe that sin is forgiven?
Again, please clarify what you believe the role of the Savior is
I am not sure if I understand what you objection is? Certainly, within my context, I limited this knowledge to man's knowledge. For example:
I did not know when God had given me the new birth but I did know, that for some reason, the Gospel message now mattered to me. Through study of the Scriptures I came to know Christ as my Savior. So I knew the exact date I first believed. Through additional study and preaching, I came to know about the new birth. Therefore, I knew not the time of my "Regeneration" but I knew exactly the time of my "Conversion". When one comes to know Christ as Lord and Savior, that one does not know about the Doctrine of Spirit Regeneration or about the Doctrine of Conversion. This is learned only through study and preaching of the True Gospel.
As one said to me, a long time ago: When one finds a Church and approaches to enter - above the door they see - "Enter all who believe and come to me". Once inside they see - above the door - "Elected in Him before the foundation of the world".
One must be careful about the subject of "Spirit Regeneration". It is only a small step from understanding the True teaching of this Doctrine and falling into the error of "Gospel Regeneration". Many, who believe in the things of Election and Predestination, teach Gospel Regeneration. They use verses like:
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1Th_1:5 how that our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance; even as ye know what manner of men we showed ourselves toward you for your sake.
These verses are not speaking upon the subject of "Regeneration" but to the power of the Word in ones "Conversion".
The idea of Gospel Regeneration, was refuted by our Lord Himself:
John 5:39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me;
Ones birth by the Spirit is a Divine mystery, as clearly laid out in in John
John 3:8 The wind is blowing where it will, and you are hearing the voice thereof, but know not from where it came, and where it is going: so it is with every one that has been born (Perfect.Passive.Participle) of the Spirit.
I don't know if my response gives the correct answer to your objection?
I did not know when God had given me the new birth but I did know, that for some reason, the Gospel message now mattered to me. Through study of the Scriptures I came to know Christ as my Savior. So I knew the exact date I first believed. Through additional study and preaching, I came to know about the new birth. Therefore, I knew not the time of my "Regeneration" but I knew exactly the time of my "Conversion". When one comes to know Christ as Lord and Savior, that one does not know about the Doctrine of Spirit Regeneration or about the Doctrine of Conversion. This is learned only through study and preaching of the True Gospel.
As one said to me, a long time ago: When one finds a Church and approaches to enter - above the door they see - "Enter all who believe and come to me". Once inside they see - above the door - "Elected in Him before the foundation of the world".
One must be careful about the subject of "Spirit Regeneration". It is only a small step from understanding the True teaching of this Doctrine and falling into the error of "Gospel Regeneration". Many, who believe in the things of Election and Predestination, teach Gospel Regeneration. They use verses like:
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1Th_1:5 how that our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit, and in much assurance; even as ye know what manner of men we showed ourselves toward you for your sake.
These verses are not speaking upon the subject of "Regeneration" but to the power of the Word in ones "Conversion".
The idea of Gospel Regeneration, was refuted by our Lord Himself:
John 5:39 Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me;
Ones birth by the Spirit is a Divine mystery, as clearly laid out in in John
John 3:8 The wind is blowing where it will, and you are hearing the voice thereof, but know not from where it came, and where it is going: so it is with every one that has been born (Perfect.Passive.Participle) of the Spirit.
I don't know if my response gives the correct answer to your objection?
Jesus is God. God cast Lucifer out of Heaven so it makes sense he'd say, as The Word made flesh that dwelt among us as Emmanuel, God with us, aka/Jesus, that he would say he beheld the fall of Lucifer.
Satan Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
Satan Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
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Adam was created out of "earth".......Earth is dirt.
Step outside, get a shovel, and dig. That dirt.
That is not found in heaven, as Adam was not made in Heaven.
Also,
You have .
The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
John 1 says that the WORD who is Jesus, is in the Father.
Notice that Jesus who is God, said this to God His Father........>"not my will but yours i will do', .....and then Christ went to the Cross.
Jesus told the Apostles.....>"you believe in God, believe also in Me".
Jesus told us....>"if you have seen me, you have seen the Father".
Thomas the Apostle said to Jesus, kneeling before Him....."my Lord and my GOD"..
Jesus told the Pharisees.......>"before Abraham was..... I AM".... And this term "i am", is who God defined Himself to be, when talking to Moses from the Burning Bush......"i am that i am".........and Jesus told the Pharisees.....that He is "I am"
1st Timothy 3:16, says that GOD was born in the FLESH, as JESUS.
One of the Names of Jesus is : Emmanuel.......and that name means....>>"God with us".
So, you have Father God, and Jesus the WORD, who is God the only begotton Son, and you have the Holy Spirit.
Thats 3, and they are the "Godhead"..... this is defined as the "Trinity"....
So, when God said....>"lets make man in OUR Image", He is talking about Himself and JESUS, who is God, and the Holy Spirit
There is your "our image".
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