predestination vs freewill

[OIC1965]

And what does that then mean per your understanding?

A. The wicked act according to their innnately fallen nature

B. You don’t have to teach a child/person how to sin. It comes naturally to them.

C. It is in the fallen nature of man to sin even before he is able to just as it is in the nature of a lion to hunt and eat meat even before it is able to. Even while it is drinking mamas milk the fact that if it lives long enough it will eat meat is inevitable.

Depravity.

 

[Icedaisey]

A. The wicked act according to their innnately fallen nature

B. You don’t have to teach a child/person how to sin. It comes naturally to them.

C. It is in the nature of man to sin even before he is able to just as it is in the nature of a lion to hunt and eat meat even before it is able to. Even while it is drinking mamas milk the fact that if it lives long enough it will eat meat is inevitable.

And in both cases of those innate metaphors, they're all predestined by God.

 

[OIC1965]

And in both cases of those innate metaphors, they're all predestined by God.

Where in the scriptures do you see predestination used that way?

 

[Icedaisey]

Where in the scriptures do you see predestination used that way?

Good one.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hi ForestGreenCook

I have only found one salvation identified in the Bible, and that is of eternal salvation through Christ.
I believe all of the attributes that Christian may come to possess, exhibit and grow in over time, occurs after one becomes saved/born again, and is a result of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. One of those attributes, and possibly the most important one after faith, is a desire to share the true Gospel. So to me, everything, including good works, emanate from, and by, that indwelling. However, to be able to correctly share the true Gospel, it first needs to be placed into our possession (through the Holy Spirit), otherwise we can only know and preach the false gospel.

[Eph 4:21-24 KJV]
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

[Eph 1:17 KJV]
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

[Gal 5:22-23 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
\23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

[Mat 13:16 KJV]
16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Rogerg, All of the scriptures that you have referenced to me, I agree with, that God has instructed his children to do those things that would keep them in a right walk in the Spirit, but because, unfortunately, though we have been born again, we still carry the baggage of our sin nature, causing the battle within us of the warfare of the flesh against the Spirit. Paul put it this way; "that I would do, I do not, but that I would not do, that I do."

Do you agree that the only person that would repent of breaking a spiritual law are those that have been born again spiritually?

 

[Kidron]

What about, I'm a son of God (John 1:12), born again (John 3:3) as God's son, I'm IN Christ as proof.

And this Sonship you have become, can never be changed.
Once you are born again, you are always born again.

 

[Gardenias]

MYSELF I DON'T BELIEVE IN PREDESTINATION TO BE SAVED!
I BELIEVE IN ....THE DESTINATION

For WHOSOEVER WILL ( free will) let him come and drink from the water of life freely!
Jesus came for those that will .....not those that think they are ELITES

 

[Icedaisey]

MYSELF I DON'T BELIEVE IN PREDESTINATION TO BE SAVED!
I BELIEVE IN ....THE DESTINATION

For WHOSOEVER WILL ( free will) let him come and drink from the water of life freely!
Jesus came for those that will .....not those that think they are ELITES

The Elect of God.

 

[rogerg]

Do you agree that the only person that would repent of breaking a spiritual law are those that have been born again spiritually?

Repentance from a trust in our own works unto a true faith in Christ and in His completed perfect works, which faith is/was a gift to the elect by God through the Holy Spirit. So when you say "repent" is that what you have in mind? Can further repentance be needed after having been coved by Christ?

 

[Gardenias]

The Elect of God.

So by the thoughts and scripture on that site then accordingly we are ALL the elect of God if we are born again !

 

[rogerg]

For WHOSOEVER WILL ( free will) let him come and drink from the water of life freely!
Jesus came for those that will .....not those that think they are ELITES

The question is.... who will believe in Christ? Faith (belief) is give as a gift by the Holy Spirit. True faith is not/cannot be self generated.

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[Kidron]

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

You have to be born again, before the Spirit of God lives in you.
To be born again, you have to believe on Jesus, and God receives this faith, to give you the new birth.
Faith comes by hearing, and this hearing comes by someone who is telling you what to BELIEVE.

You get to choose.
Choice is Free Will.

Here is how Paul explains it....

[13] """ For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they BELIEVE in Jesus of whom they have not heard? and how shall they HEAR without a preacher?"""

 

[Gardenias]

The question is.... who will believe in Christ? Faith (belief) is give as a gift by the Holy Spirit. True faith is not/cannot be self generated.

[Gal 5:22 KJV]
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Just as FAITH is a fruit of the Spirit so too is the convicting power part of the Holy Spirit.
He reveals to us our sin separation from God.
By bringing condemnation, he convicts us and helps see us how the Father sees us and offers us a chance to change our hearts and minds and accept the blood bought gift of salvation and to be born again.
Renewing in us a right heart and right spirit,
upon repentance,we are then able to put on Christ's righteousness and become children of God

 

[Icedaisey]

Just as FAITH is a fruit of the Spirit so too is the convicting power part of the Holy Spirit.
He reveals to us our sin separation from God.
By bringing condemnation, he convicts us and helps see us how the Father sees us and offers us a chance to change our hearts and minds and accept the blood bought gift of salvation and to be born again.
Renewing in us a right heart and right spirit,
upon repentance,we are then able to put on Christ's righteousness and become children of God

Hi. OT, but your signature is missing an "s" for the plural form of "yours"
Prayer:
Until we meet again,may God hold you and your in the palm of his hand
Amen! Unkn.

Tried to PM you but I won't pay$ to do that.

 

[Icedaisey]

Psalm 33:1The LORD frustrates the plans of the nations; He thwarts the devices of the peoples. 11The counsel of the LORD stands forever, the purposes of His heart to all generations. 12Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people He has chosen as His inheritance!

Proverbs 19:21
Many plans are in a man's heart, but the purpose of the LORD will prevail.

Isaiah 46:10
"I declare the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come. I say, 'My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish.'

Isaiah 55:8
"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways," declares the LORD."

 

[justpassinthrough]

Well here is the thing.
Im a Son of God already, being born again as God's Son, with Christ in me as Proof.
What are you?

Lucifer is also a son of God.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

MYSELF I DON'T BELIEVE IN PREDESTINATION TO BE SAVED!
I BELIEVE IN ....THE DESTINATION

For WHOSOEVER WILL ( free will) let him come and drink from the water of life freely!
Jesus came for those that will .....not those that think they are ELITES

The only ones that will hear God's voice (understand his teachings) are his sheep (born again). The only ones "who will" are his born again sheep.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Just as FAITH is a fruit of the Spirit so too is the convicting power part of the Holy Spirit.
He reveals to us our sin separation from God.
By bringing condemnation, he convicts us and helps see us how the Father sees us and offers us a chance to change our hearts and minds and accept the blood bought gift of salvation and to be born again.
Renewing in us a right heart and right spirit,
upon repentance,we are then able to put on Christ's righteousness and become children of God

The only heart that the Holy Spirit will prick (convict) from breaking God's commandments is the soft heart that has been changed from a heart of stone in the new birth. The natural person that has not been born again will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot discern, 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You have to be born again, before the Spirit of God lives in you.
To be born again, you have to believe on Jesus, and God receives this faith, to give you the new birth.
Faith comes by hearing, and this hearing comes by someone who is telling you what to BELIEVE.

You get to choose.
Choice is Free Will.

Here is how Paul explains it....

[13] """ For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they BELIEVE in Jesus of whom they have not heard? and how shall they HEAR without a preacher?"""

Saved in the Greek interpretation means "delivered". The verses you have quoted are referencing a deliverance (salvation) here in this world, it is not referencing eternal deliverance. Only the changed heart of a born again person can believe in the things of the Spirit, 1 Cor 2:14.

 

[rogerg]

You have to be born again, before the Spirit of God lives in you.

You can't believe (have faith) without first having been given and indwelt BY the Holy Spirt. Along with many other spiritual gifts, true faith is a fruit of the Spirit

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Faith comes by hearing, and this hearing comes by someone who is telling you what to BELIEVE.

The "hearing" mentioned above is of spiritual hearing, not physical hearing. Please observe (following) that the knowledge of Him must first be given THROUGH and BY the HOLY SPIRIT (spirit of wisdom). Without that first happening, no matter who, or how much, someone is "telling you what to believe", it will fall upon deaf ears and will not/can not produce spiritual fruit - the seed shall not fall upon the "good ground".

[Eph 1:17 KJV]
17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

To be born again, you have to believe on Jesus, and God receives this faith, to give you the new birth.

Everyone (except Christ) who has ever born into this world, was born spiritually blinded. God specifically gives to certain individuals the Holy Spirit whereby they receive spiritual eyes that see and ears that hear. Otherwise they remain blinded and therefore cannot believe. Everyone is who is born comes into this life as one of the "believe not" below.


[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

By bringing condemnation, he convicts us and helps see us how the Father sees us and offers us a chance to change our hearts and minds and accept the blood bought gift of salvation and to be born again.

Please see the following regarding the " chance to change our hearts and minds". As you can see they COULD NOT be converted.

[Jhn 12:38-40 KJV]
38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?
39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,
40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.