predestination vs freewill

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awelight said:
First of all, John 10 is a parable - Christ was not speaking in a straight forward way because of the presents of the Pharisees and Scribes. When He talked in a parable, it was to hide what He was saying from the unregenerate minds of these religionist
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Jesus explained the meaning of this parable to these pharasees! The only thing they didn't understand was "which of these things they were".
awelight said:
This would place God reacting, to what His creation does or does not do. God is actionary not reactionary.
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Really? there are plenty of times God does something because a man chose to do something.

“I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will surely bless you, and I will multiply your descendants like the stars in the sky and the sand on the seashore..."

awelight said:
This would also nullify the idea that Grace is an unmerited Grace.
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No, it wouldn't, because even though we choose to listen to god, nobody deserved to be called by him in the first place. Nobody ever sought out god without him doing something first and we are all worthy of destruction for that.
 
Kidron said:
Read all you like.
But dont pretend.
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Pretend what? I told you I can read koine. And you’re the one who claims you have seminary training in textual criticism and then say there is only 30 extant koine texts
 
OIC1965 said:
Pretend what? I told you I can read koine. And you’re the one who claims you have seminary training in textual criticism and then say there is only 30 extant koine texts
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There are many many many Greek manuscripts, but about 30 are recognized as authentic, and about 3-4 are actually used to create english Bibles.

Let me explain this to you..............Look at the Canon Text.........you have slightly less then 40 epistle in the NT< but there are many other epistles, that are not used.......so, we dont consider what is not accepted.
So it is with Greek texts..

Also, i dont recall you saying "i read Greek", in a post.
did i miss it?
Can you post the number of the post where you said....."I can fluently READ Koine GREEK"???
Maybe i missed it.
 
OIC1965 said:
How do you claim to have seminary training in textual criticism and then turn around and say only 30 extant Greek texts exist?!!!
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Read carefully......

Slowly........

There are many many many Greek manuscripts, but about 30 are recognized as authentic, and about 3-4 are actually used to create english Bibles.
Let me explain this to you..............Look at the Canon Text.........you have slightly less then 40 epistle in the NT< but there are many other epistles, that are not used.......so, we dont consider what is not accepted.
So it is with Greek texts..

Also, i dont recall you saying "i read Greek", in a post.
did i miss it?
Can you post the number of the post where you said....."I can fluently READ Koine GREEK"???
Maybe i missed it.
 
Kidron said:
There are many many many Greek manuscripts, but about 30 are recognized as authentic, and about 3-4 are actually used to create english Bibles.

Let me explain this to you..............Look at the Canon Text.........you have slightly less then 40 epistle in the NT< but there are many other epistles, that are not used.......so, we dont consider what is not accepted.
So it is with Greek texts..

Also, i dont recall you saying "i read Greek", in a post.
did i miss it?
Can you post the number of the post where you said....."I can fluently READ Koine GREEK"???
Maybe i missed it.
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Go back and read my posts

Slightly less than 40 epistles in the canon?

I count TWENTY TWO, and that’s counting Revelation, which is actually an apocalypse.

Please provide documentation that only 30 NT manuscripts are considered authentic. I want to see your source(s) too.
 
OIC1965 said:
Slightly less than 40 epistles in the canon?
.
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The NT Canon has slightly less than 40. But that is including the Catholic idea that includes others.. that sit between the OT and NEW, and im talking about long ago, not recent.

So, depending on which "scholarship" you are using............... i included both the older history, the early, and the recent that is what happened about the time of the protestant reformation.

If you want the Protestant version, then 27, yet, this is even debated, as 22 was considered all at one point, as a few that exist in the current canon were disputed.

However, if you consider all the epistles that never made it into the NT canon, then that is exactly the same as how to view all the Greek Texts that exist, but are not considered viable or authentic.
 
Kidron said:
Read carefully......

Slowly........

There are many many many Greek manuscripts, but about 30 are recognized as authentic, and about 3-4 are actually used to create english Bibles.
Let me explain this to you..............Look at the Canon Text.........you have slightly less then 40 epistle in the NT< but there are many other epistles, that are not used.......so, we dont consider what is not accepted.
So it is with Greek texts..

Also, i dont recall you saying "i read Greek", in a post.
did i miss it?
Can you post the number of the post where you said....."I can fluently READ Koine GREEK"???
Maybe i missed it.
Click to expand...

Yes, you missed posts where I said I can read Greek. And you also missed the fact that there are 21 epistles in the NT. (Romans -Jude), not close to 40.

And apparently you went to an extremely liberal seminary run by Bart Eerman (sic) if you think there are only 30 accepted, authentic, extant Greek manuscripts.

Actually, I don’t even think Bart would say something that far out.
 
Kidron said:
The NT Canon has slightly less than 40. But that is including the Catholic idea that includes others.. that sit between the OT and NEW, and im talking about long ago, not recent.

So, depending on which "scholarship" you are using............... i included both the older history, the early, and the recent that is what happened about the time of the protestant reformation.

If you want the Protestant version, then 27, yet, this is even debated, as 22 was considered all at one point, as a few that exist in the current canon were disputed.

However, if you consider all the epistles that never made it into the NT canon, then that is exactly the same as how to view all the Greek Texts that exist, but are not considered viable or authentic.
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The Protestant canon does not have 27 epistles. Maybe you need to figure out what an epistle is?
 
OIC1965 said:
Yes, you missed posts where I said I can read Greek. And you also missed the fact that there are 21 epistles in the NT. (Romans -Jude), not close to 40.
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Post the # of the post where you said you "read Koine Greek fluently".

Also,

The NT is 27 books, not 22.
 
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