Sabbath

[TMS]

How do we know what sin is?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

So is the law removed completely or is the law no longer holding us because Jesus has freed us from the power of sin that the law reveals. Justified and sanctification.

1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Those that are filled with Gods Spirit are not under the law because the Spirit does not transgress the priciples of righteousness that the law reveals.

 

[rayzor]

then it is no longer us but the sin that dwells in us? what we do not lose are descendants? that is our seed?

 

[rayzor]

god tell us?
what sin is?

 

[Kidron]

Faith happens before your works...

God then accepts this Faith to give a person the "new Birth", in the SPIRIT.
No water, no works.

"faith is counted (accepted) as righteousness"........= born again.

Now, go and get in that water., after the new birth has happened.

 

[MalikB]

God then accepts this Faith to give a person the "new Birth", in the SPIRIT.
No water, no works.

"faith is counted (accepted) as righteousness"........= born again.

Now, go and get in that water., after the new birth has happened.

This is not evidence for the Sabbath or any of the law being done away with.

 

[Kidron]

This is not evidence for the Sabbath or any of the law being done away with.

Have you ever heard of the..........."New Testament'? How about this one.....>"the NEW Covenant"?

How about this....>"The Shabbat is made for man".........vs, as you teach, man is made for the Shabbat.

Did you notice that Jesus healed on the Shabbat, to show Pharisee law keepers, that Jesus is the Lord of the Shabbat?

So, if you want to keep the Shabbat, the keep it, but if you don't, then dont.
Makes no difference.

Here is what matters........Jesus said...."you must be born again", and water cant do that for you.

 

[MalikB]

Have you ever heard of the..........."New Testament'? How about this one.....>"the NEW Covenant"?

Do you know what a covenant is? Its a contract... like a lease. You can't sign a new lease on a house if you are 2 months in debt. The Messiah paid the debt so that the lease could be renewed. Having a new lease does not mean the "no dog", or "no drug" policy doesn't exist anymore.

How about this....>"The Shabbat is made for man".........vs, as you teach, man is made for the Shabbat.

Many of God's laws were made for man.... for our health, wellness, and survival as a species. Without laws, we have chaos... lawlessness leads to destruction.

Did you notice that Jesus healed on the Shabbat, to show Pharisee law keepers, that Jesus is the Lord of the Shabbat?

Like stated many times, God's work does not equal man's work. Healing, feeding the hungry, etc.... is not the same as buying and selling, work for personal gain, materialism, etc. The Pharisees were not keeping God's law how it was meant to be kept because they were adding and taking away from it... and missing the spiritual component of the law.

So, if you want to keep the Shabbat, the keep it, but if you don't, then dont.
Makes no difference.

The Messiah says in Mathew 5:18-19 that the law/commandments are until heaven and earth disappear and whether or not we do and teach them effects our place in heaven. It may not make a difference to you, but I trust him over a stranger on the internet.

Here is what matters........Jesus said...."you must be born again", and water cant do that for you.

You would have to show me where in scripture it says that water prevents you from having to keep the law/commandments.

 

[Kidron]

The Messiah says in Mathew 5:18-19 that the law/commandments are until heaven and earth disappear and whether or not we do and teach them effects our place in heaven. It may not make a difference to you, but I trust him over a stranger on the internet.
.

Interpret this............"Christ has redeemed the born again from the Curse of the Law", by explaining why the Law is a Curse and "the Law is the power of sin".

Interpret this.....>"you (the born again), are not under the Law, but under Grace".

Now, interpret all that as this......>"Christ having gained eternal redemption through His BLOOD, sat down on the Right Hand of the Father".
And use this verse in your interpretation.........>Jesus said before dying on the Cross....."it is Finished/Accomplished".....

 

[rstrats]

[QUOTE="Kidron, post: 4629541,


So, if you want to keep the Shabbat, the keep it, but if you don't, then don't.
Makes no difference.

[/QUOTE]

Any thoughts on the prophecy in Isaiah 66:22-23 which has the Lord saying that He will make new heavens and a new earth and that from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before Him?

 

[MalikB]

Interpret this............"Christ has redeemed the born again from the Curse of the Law", by explaining why the Law is a Curse and "the Law is the power of sin".

The phrase "curse of the law" is not referring to the entire law... It is specific to breaking the law (sin):


Deuteronomy 11:26-28

26 Look! I’m about to grant you a blessing and a curse— 27 a blessing if you obey the commands of the Lord your God that I’m giving you today, 28 or a curse if you don’t obey the commands of the Lord your God, by turning from the way that I’m commanding you today and following other gods whom you have not known.”

"The curse of the law" is breaking it (sinning).... The blessing of law is keeping it. Why? Because breaking the law comes with "curses" (penalties). Under the first covenant, these were earthly penalties. We were saved from "the curse of the law" from the first covenant because the Messiah's body paid the earthly penalties associated with it (E.G. animal sacrifice.)

Interpret this.....>"you (the born again), are not under the Law, but under Grace".

You would have to supply the verse for this.

Now, interpret all that as this......>"Christ having gained eternal redemption through His BLOOD, sat down on the Right Hand of the Father".

I don't get what your point is here and how its related to whether or not the law and commandments are still in effect.

And use this verse in your interpretation.........>Jesus said before dying on the Cross....."it is Finished/Accomplished".....

"It is finished" is a very vague statement. I personally believe he was speaking about what he came to do on this trip here:

1. His body paid for our earthly debt required from the first covenant.

2. He retaught man how the law was always meant to be kept, so that that we had a second chance under the renewed covenant.

3. Him being the Passover lamb was the fulfillment of the first holy day.....

His burial later fulfilled Unleavened Bread, Him rising fulfilled First Fruits, and the Holy spirit entering the men in Jerusalem fulfilled Pentecost.

The Spring feasts were fulfilled, and the Autumn feasts will be fulfilled when He returns.

 

[gb9]

[QUOTE="Kidron, post: 4629541,


So, if you want to keep the Shabbat, the keep it, but if you don't, then don't.
Makes no difference.

Any thoughts on the prophecy in Isaiah 66:22-23 which has the Lord saying that He will make new heavens and a new earth and that from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before Him?[/QUOTE]

are wolves and sheep eating together? have lions began to eat grass like an ox?

learn the difference between instructive Scripture and symbolism...

 

[gb9]

The phrase "curse of the law" is not referring to the entire law... It is specific to breaking the law (sin):


Deuteronomy 11:26-28

26 Look! I’m about to grant you a blessing and a curse— 27 a blessing if you obey the commands of the Lord your God that I’m giving you today, 28 or a curse if you don’t obey the commands of the Lord your God, by turning from the way that I’m commanding you today and following other gods whom you have not known.”

"The curse of the law" is breaking it (sinning).... The blessing of law is keeping it. Why? Because breaking the law comes with "curses" (penalties). Under the first covenant, these were earthly penalties. We were saved from "the curse of the law" from the first covenant because the Messiah's body paid the earthly penalties associated with it (E.G. animal sacrifice.)





You would have to supply the verse for this.




I don't get what your point is here and how its related to whether or not the law and commandments are still in effect.



"It is finished" is a very vague statement. I personally believe he was speaking about what he came to do on this trip here:

1. His body paid for our earthly debt required from the first covenant.

2. He retaught man how the law was always meant to be kept, so that that we had a second chance under the renewed covenant.

3. Him being the Passover lamb was the fulfillment of the first holy day.....

His burial later fulfilled Unleavened Bread, Him rising fulfilled First Fruits, and the Holy spirit entering the men in Jerusalem fulfilled Pentecost.

The Spring feasts were fulfilled, and the Autumn feasts will be fulfilled when He returns.

the Law of Moses was for Israel only.

 

[Kidron]

The phrase "curse of the law" is not referring to the entire law...

Thats true.
Its referring to every human being who is not "redeemed from the Curse of the Law"....by becoming BORN AGAIN.

Water can't do that for you.

 

[MalikB]

the Law of Moses was for Israel only.

No it was not. If you wanted to live in the Father's house you had to follow His rules. If you did, you were considered part of Israel:



Leviticus 24:22

Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: for I am the Lord your God.


Exodus 12:49

A single law exists for the native and the alien who resides among you.



Exodus 20:8-10

“Remember the Sabbath day, maintaining its holiness. 9 Six days you are to labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. You are not to do any work—neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your livestock, nor any foreigner who lives among you.


Romans 2:6-11

6 For he will repay everyone according to what that person has done: 7 eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing good; 8 but wrath and fury for those who in their selfish pride refuse to believe the truth and practice wickedness instead. 9 There will be suffering and anguish for every human being who practices doing evil, for Jews first and for Greeks as well. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who practices doing good, initially for Jews but also for Greeks as well, 11 because God does not show partiality.

 

[MalikB]

Thats true.
Its referring to every human being who is not "redeemed from the Curse of the Law"....by becoming BORN AGAIN.

Water can't do that for you.

You are going to believe whatever you want... I showed you in scripture what the "the curse of the law" is. If you limit your understanding to mainstream Christian interpretations of Paul's writings you will remain in lawlessness. There are tons of scriptures that warn about lawlessness and how we need to keep the laws/commandments.


Mathew 24:11-12

11 Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people, 12 and because lawlessness will increase, the love of many people will grow cold.


1 John 5:1-3

5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born from God, and everyone who loves the parent also loves the child. 2 This is how we know that we love God’s children: we love God and keep his commandments. 3 For this demonstrates our love for God: We keep his commandments, and his commandments are not difficult


Romans 2:6-11

6 For he will repay everyone according to what that person has done: 7 eternal life to those who strive for glory, honor, and immortality by patiently doing good; 8 but wrath and fury for those who in their selfish pride refuse to believe the truth and practice wickedness instead. 9 There will be suffering and anguish for every human being who practices doing evil, for Jews first and for Greeks as well. 10 But there will be glory, honor, and peace for everyone who practices doing good, initially for Jews but also for Greeks as well, 11 because God does not show partiality.

13 For it is not merely those who hear the Law who are righteous in God’s sight. No, it is those who follow the Law, who will be justified.


Revelation 22:14

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Matthew 5:18-19


18 because I tell all of you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished. 19 So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom from heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom from heaven


When will “heaven and earth disappear”?


Revelation 21:1
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, because the first heaven and the first earth had disappeared, and the sea was gone.



Despite all the evidence presented in other scriptures, people would rather stick to their interpretations of Paul. Why? Because people love sin. They love to do what they want, when they want, and not be held accountable for it.

 

[posthuman]

If we follow Him, we will be following the law.

He does not stop working on sabbath.
He gives to who asks of Him.
He goes two miles with whoever compels Him to go one.
everything He does, He does as to God not to earthly masters.

 

[MalikB]

Any thoughts on the prophecy in Isaiah 66:22-23 which has the Lord saying that He will make new heavens and a new earth and that from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before Him?

are wolves and sheep eating together? have lions began to eat grass like an ox?

learn the difference between instructive Scripture and symbolism...[/QUOTE]



Notice the phrase "new heavens and new earth"........ The time Isiah is referring to is the same time the Messiah is saying that until then, nothing will change in the law and commandments:


Matthew 5:18-19


18 because I tell all of you with certainty that until heaven and earth disappear, not one letter or one stroke of a letter will disappear from the Law until everything has been accomplished. 19 So whoever sets aside one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom from heaven. But whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom from heaven



Luke 16:17

17 However, it is easier for heaven and earth to disappear than for one stroke of a letter in the Law to be dropped.



Both Isiah and the Messiah are referring to this time in revelation:


Revelation 21:1
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, because the first heaven and the first earth had disappeared, and the sea was gone.

 

[MalikB]

He does not stop working on sabbath.
He gives to who asks of Him.
He goes two miles with whoever compels Him to go one.
everything He does, He does as to God not to earthly masters.

I've already addressed all of these with scripture. Bottom line is some people are just too attached/invested in their sin to let it go.

 

[Kidron]

11 Many false prophets will appear and deceive many people, 12 and because lawlessness will increase, the love of many people will grow cold.

There are "water cults" that replace the Spiritual Baptism with "water saves", and these same deceivers, will obsess on "commandments and law".

Do you know any like this?
I do.
They theologically pollute Christian forums.

 

[MalikB]

There are "water cults" that replace the Spiritual Baptism with "water saves", and these same deceivers, will obsess on "commandments and law".

Do you know any like this?
I do.
They theologically pollute Christian forums.

1 John 5:1-3

5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Messiah has been born from God, and everyone who loves the parent also loves the child. 2 This is how we know that we love God’s children: we love God and keep his commandments. 3 For this demonstrates our love for God: We keep his commandments, and his commandments are not difficult