America in Prophecy

[Omegatime]

The greatest nation the world has ever known has to be involved in end time events at least by most scholars. My vision is America plays little influence in the tribulation to come. Most scriptures seem to be confined to Israel and the nations around the Mediterranean sea and later in the bowl judgement the Asian nations with the 200 million man army.

In conclusion and IMO America has been decimated most likely by war and natural disasters just before or early in the tribulation. Where Jesus spoke of nation against nation the meaning here is gentiles against gentiles.

Now for the panel to add their comments:

 

[JaumeJ]

It is very likely Nikita Kruschev was absolutely correct when he declared the US would devour itself.

 

[Omegatime]

It is very likely Nikita Kruschev was absolutely correct when he declared the US would devour itself.

Certainly a possibility Jaumej

 

[Radius]

The left ruined America. Plain and simple.

 

[crossnote]

America is only as vibrant as its Christians are.

 

[Omegatime]

Surely, this nation needs the lord more than ever

 

[Aaron56]

The United States represents the penultimate experiment in terrestrial government apart from the Lord. In a Christian Nation, the Living God would be the sovereign. In the US, the people are the sovereign. That's what the Preamble of the Constitution reads:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

The US arose out of rebellion against a monarchy and its laws were written to prevent the formation of another monarchy within the nation. It's governmental structure is, perhaps, the most unlike the Kingdom of God among all the nations of the earth.

What we are seeing in these last days, is the lawlessness that was promised; where people will decide what is right in their own eyes. That is why long-standing standards of law and reason are evaporating in US courts: marriage (the standard of tradition), biology (the standard of science), health care (the standard of compassion), immigration (the standard of sovereignty), business (the standard of commerce), etc. The boundaries of these standards have become fluid because US citizens, as sovereigns, are exercising their legal right to interpret their individual versions of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness".

In these last days, the policies of the US herald the arrival of the Beast more than anything else.

Aaron56

P.S. I'm fun at parties.

 

[Chester]

The greatest nation the world has ever known has to be involved in end time events at least by most scholars. My vision is America plays little influence in the tribulation to come. Most scriptures seem to be confined to Israel and the nations around the Mediterranean sea and later in the bowl judgement the Asian nations with the 200 million man army.

In conclusion and IMO America has been decimated most likely by war and natural disasters just before or early in the tribulation. Where Jesus spoke of nation against nation the meaning here is gentiles against gentiles.

Now for the panel to add their comments:

I think that likely what you say is mostly correct. The United States may still be today, in spite of our rapid deterioration, the greatest obstacle to the takeover of the world system by the Antichrist system. There are still many free-spirited individualistic patriots who will not just sit down when a socialistic system tries to take over. But it is coming, and the US seems likely to fall to the one-world govt. socialistic system.

 

[p_rehbein]

IMO:

The US will be here when Jesus returns. Nothing in Scripture says it will not. As well, I have never found any Scripture that speaks of the US specifically regarding "end times."

The US is struggling and is turning away from God because of the Leadership of the radical socialist extremist liberals in control of the Democrat Party. The erosion of morality in the US reminds me of what was happening in the times the Roman Empire fell.

However, the US has salvation available! It is up to the Church to keep the US whole. The Church has to repent and return to God. If the Church does this, it matters not what the unsaved do, for God promised He would heal our land IF we did repent and turn to Him.

End times prophecy does NOT hold the future of the US in it's hands, THE CHURCH DOES.

 

[Ahwatukee]

The greatest nation the world has ever known has to be involved in end time events at least by most scholars. My vision is America plays little influence in the tribulation to come. Most scriptures seem to be confined to Israel and the nations around the Mediterranean sea and later in the bowl judgement the Asian nations with the 200 million man army.

In conclusion and IMO America has been decimated most likely by war and natural disasters just before or early in the tribulation. Where Jesus spoke of nation against nation the meaning here is gentiles against gentiles.

Now for the panel to add their comments:

“But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with [h]carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly. For it will come as a snare on all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”

"Because you have kept the word of My patient endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling upon the earth."

Hello Omegatime,

The tribulation period will affect every person on the earth during the time of God's wrath. In the scriptures above, it states that the whole earth will be affected. Some attempt to interpret the 'whole world' as being restricted only to what was considered at those times to make up the known world. However, these scriptures and others are speaking about future end-time events which is the reason for the reference to "the whole world." The Lord certainly knew that the entire earth would be populated during that time.

In addition, when we read the about the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and their severity, we can see that these plagues of wrath will not and cannot be restricted to just certain nations. Their purpose after all is for God's wrath to poured out upon all mankind, as seen by the prophet Zephaniah:

"I will completely sweep away everything from the face of the earth,”

declares the LORD.

“I will sweep away man and beast; I will sweep away the birds of the air,

and the fish of the sea, and the idols with their wicked worshipers.

I will cut off mankind from the face of the earth,”

==================================================================

There will be no nation that is exempt from God's coming wrath!

Just as an example, when the fourth angel pours out his bowl upon the sun, it gives the sun power to scorch those on the earth with intense heat, searing them. This would affect everyone everywhere on the earth.

Another example would be the 5th trumpet, where those demonic beings resembling locusts are released from the Abyss. These are ordered to torment the inhabitants of the earth with stings like that of a scorpion. The only group that is exempt from this, are those who will have been sealed with the seal of God in their foreheads, which will only be the 144,000. Otherwise, everyone else on the planet will be exposed to this torment.

I could go on with the 4th seal where Death and Hades are give power to kill a fourth of the earths population. Likewise, at the sounding of the 6th trumpet a third of the earth's population will be killed. With just those two, that would equal over half the earth's population and that's not including the fatalities that will result from trumpets 1, 2 and 3 nor the fatalities from the bowl judgments. When we look at the total percentage of destruction, it becomes very apparent that the entire earth will be involved.

 

[Aaron56]

The Democrats/Liberals do not pretend to represent the saints (and they clearly do not). It's the Republican Evangelicals who recently supported (and many still do) a 5-time philanderer and unscrupulous business man as their representative. They use trite and empty phrases like "He's my president not my pastor" to assuage their collective conscience of supporting a man with such a vile reputation. It's the Evangelical Christians who, since the 1970's, have thrown in with the politicians to get a seat at the political table. It's by their own hand they became part of the political machine that seeks to impose their will upon the people. They'll gladly sell their votes to anyone who will promise them lower taxes and more wealth, who esteem "founding fathers" regardless of their agnosticism, and an increase in "righteous influence" over the nation. These things (and others) were the same promises Constantine and Theodocius, in 325 AD and later in 380 AD, gave to the church in exchange for their support. The church, then, abandoned their mandate to represent the Lord in the earth and took up a position of subservience to the governmental rulers. Today, like a prostitute, they say "Do this for us and we will give you our vote!". The enemy spins the same yarn and the people make the same clothes.

Saints, it's time to come out of the political machine.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

The Bible is Middle East Centric. The main focus is not America, Europe, China or Russia.
It's how God chose to frame his message.
It doesn't mean America will be wiped off the planet or decimated.
It's just that The USA is on the periphery of the story not the centre. One nation among many others.

The Epicentre is Jerusalem, then Israel, then the wider Middle East then the other nations of the world.
We look forward to Zion's King ruling from Jerusalem.

 

[Aaron56]

Literal vs Figurative Language in Revelation

There’s a lot of figurative language in Revelation. Perhaps, there is more figurative language than literal language.

One such example is in Revelation 5:5,6 where it reads “But one of the elders said to me, ‘Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.’” And then immediately following “And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.”

So, in the beginning, the elders say “Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah…”. When someone says “Look, a lion!” we should turn and expect to see a lion. But what does John see? “..a Lamb as though it had been slain…”

So, we can discern that “lion” and “lamb”, words that refer to the Lord, have something to do with the character and attributes of the Lord. (I won’t flesh that out now as it is not my point.)

In another example, and this is for you Ahwatukee, in Revelation 7:14 we read “And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:” and then it lists 12,000 from twelve tribes. Notice that the names of the tribes do not line up with Jacob’s sons: Dan and Ephraim are omitted and Levi and Joseph are added. So, this means something other than “Jews being sealed”. But again, not my point so I won’t unpack that here.

So the number John heard was 144,000. You would expect, that when John turns to look, he would see 144,000. But Revelation 7:9 records this: “After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages…” So 144,000 is not a literal number. It is meant to discribe something about the multitude. We also know that the multitude does not correlate to the Jewish people but, just to emphasize the point, it reads “from every nation…tribes, people, and languages”.

So, to my point, look for the word clues to help you discern when the scriptures are literal or figurative especially in the Book of Revelation.

 

[Aaron56]

The Bible is Middle East Centric. The main focus is not America, Europe, China or Russia.
It's how God chose to frame his message.
It doesn't mean America will be wiped off the planet or decimated.
It's just that The USA is on the periphery of the story not the centre. One nation among many others.

The Epicentre is Jerusalem, then Israel, then the wider Middle East then the other nations of the world.
We look forward to Zion's King ruling from Jerusalem.

True. However, for your consideration, when God deals with the world, He works where the world is looking.

 

[ResidentAlien]

America's in prophecy. Here it is:

"But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. For among them are those who creep into households and capture weak women, burdened with sins and led astray by various passions, always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men corrupted in mind and disqualified regarding the faith. But they will not get very far, for their folly will be plain to all, as was that of those two men."—2 Timothy 3:1-5​

 

[Ahwatukee]

Literal vs Figurative Language in Revelation

There’s a lot of figurative language in Revelation. Perhaps, there is more figurative language than literal language.

One such example is in Revelation 5:5,6 where it reads “But one of the elders said to me, ‘Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.’” And then immediately following “And I looked, and behold, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent out into all the earth.”

So, in the beginning, the elders say “Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah…”. When someone says “Look, a lion!” we should turn and expect to see a lion. But what does John see? “..a Lamb as though it had been slain…”

So, we can discern that “lion” and “lamb”, words that refer to the Lord, have something to do with the character and attributes of the Lord. (I won’t flesh that out now as it is not my point.)

In another example, and this is for you Ahwatukee, in Revelation 7:14 we read “And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:” and then it lists 12,000 from twelve tribes. Notice that the names of the tribes do not line up with Jacob’s sons: Dan and Ephraim are omitted and Levi and Joseph are added. So, this means something other than “Jews being sealed”. But again, not my point so I won’t unpack that here.

Good day, Aaron56,

This is the error that people make by referencing the fact that Dan does not appear in the list, which is replaced by Manasseh. Ephraim was Joseph's son and was not a member of the original 12 tribes. So, the only difference is that Dan is missing and is replaced by Manasseh and that for God's purpose. Joseph and Levi are a part of the original 12 tribes and are not replacing anyone. This does not and should not lead the reader to cast aside the literal meaning and apply a symbolic meaning.

So the number John heard was 144,000. You would expect, that when John turns to look, he would see 144,000. But Revelation 7:9 records this: “After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages…” So 144,000 is not a literal number. It is meant to discribe something about the multitude. We also know that the multitude does not correlate to the Jewish people but, just to emphasize the point, it reads “from every nation…tribes, people, and languages”.

So, to my point, look for the word clues to help you discern when the scriptures are literal or figurative especially in the Book of Revelation.

Sir, when the Lord first called me at age 14, He immediately led me into the study of end-time events, which I continue to do to this very day. Therefore, I do not need any lectures about clues or figurative language within Revelation. Therefore there is nothing that you can tell me that I have not already studied or experienced. I continue to live in the book of Revelation till this day.

That said, what you mention above, I have already encountered and contended against with many others before you for many years now, which is an on-going false teaching.

There are two groups listed in Revelation chapter 7 just as is stated:

* The 144,000 from each of the twelve tribes of literal Israel

* The great number of white robed saints too large to count from every nation, tribe, people and language (Gentiles)

The fact that the there is a specific number of 144,000 mentioned from the twelve tribes and that they are then listed in detail 12,000 per tribe, should be understood as being a literal number and as the literal people of Israel. In fact, it is because one group is referred to by a specific number and the other as a group too large to count, should tell the reader that these are two different groups.

The Male Child of Chapter 12, is a collective name representing the 144,000, which is a group of Israelites chosen by God to believe in His Son, they being the first fruits out of Israel. The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars, is figuratively representing the unbelieving nation of Israel who will give figurative birth to these 144,000 believing Israelites, ergo, 144,000 believing Israelites come out of the unbelieving nation of Israel (gives birth to).

The other group which is in opposition to the 144,000, is too large to count and are identified as Gentile believers. These are the saints referred to who will become believers in Christ after the church has been gathered and during the period of God's wrath. This is also the same group that the beast will make war against and conquer during that last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. - Rev.13:5-7

There is no reason to symbolize these two groups as being the same, especially when the scripture lists them as two individual groups and with different numbers and as Israelite's and Gentile's. It is you and others who ignore this, and make both groups as being the same. To make both groups as being the same, would be to ignore the details of the entire chapter.

 

[Aaron56]

Good day, Aaron56...

You missed the "Look there's a Lion" but it is really a lamb, example.

But, it sounds like you know a lot, so what can I say?

 

[CS1]

The greatest nation the world has ever known has to be involved in end time events at least by most scholars. My vision is America plays little influence in the tribulation to come. Most scriptures seem to be confined to Israel and the nations around the Mediterranean sea and later in the bowl judgement the Asian nations with the 200 million man army.

In conclusion and IMO America has been decimated most likely by war and natural disasters just before or early in the tribulation. Where Jesus spoke of nation against nation the meaning here is gentiles against gentiles.

Now for the panel to add their comments:

BUT God.

 

[Ahwatukee]

You missed the "Look there's a Lion" but it is really a lamb, example.

But, it sounds like you know a lot, so what can I say?

No, I didn't miss that. The Lamb looking as it was slain and the Lion of the tribe of Judah, are descriptive of the Lord Jesus. That however, does not constitute of how you interpreted the two groups in chapter 7 as being the same, when they are listed as two separate groups and identified as such.

As I said, I have been studying end-time events ever since Christ called me and continue to do so till this very day. It is the teachings of men that have distorted and circumvented the truth regarding the information in Revelation. And there is a lot of them!

No literal 144,000

No literal thousand years

No literal period of God's wrath to come

No literal eternal punishment in the lake of fire, but instead annihilation

And on and on it goes!

 

[Aaron56]

That however, does not constitute of how you interpreted the two groups in chapter 7

Sure it does.

What if I said I studied prophesy since I was 12 (true story)? I made paper bag covers for my books about prophesy so my classmates would stop making fun of me. Yeah, you're not impressed either, are you? I mean, it doesn't mean much when you consider that Peter, one who was with the Lord from the beginning of His ministry, had to be corrected by Paul who was converted at least 3 years after Peter. Otherwise, Peter could have just pulled out his "Founding Member" card, flashed it to Paul, and watch Paul walk away kicking the dirt.

I mean, with that attitude, Peter wouldn't have learned anything new, am I right?