No, no, put "there is no defense for a pre trib rapture" in your signature line.
Could the tribulation start this year?
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Yes, and here are some of those commands from Jesus that we need to obey:
Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming.
Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning—
“But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly.
First we are commanded to watch, and even if you don't know the hour, that day should not come upon you unexpectedly.
To adress this first I would like to say that nothing Jesus said or pointed was ever just anything it always had meaning and purpose to it I would like to continue by saying that God uses numbers quite often and many times the same numbers such as three seven nine twelve ect. he never does anything without reason or purpose and he hides things in plain sight just because one does not accept what is hidden does not make it true.
Now whether age or generation both can mean the same thing and Israel was in fact restored to it's land in 1948 exactly as God said would happen anyone who studies bible prophecy knows to look to Israel and Israel has been used in every prophetic event in history so when it returned to it's land which fig trees have always represented Israel then that started the countdown to the end times
But I also sayy to you I am not superior to you I have just been where you are
This is *not* true. The book of Revelation does *not* say that *all* take the mark. Rather, it says that the policy of the False Prophet is to make all take the mark, whether they take it or not.
Rev 14.9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.” 12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the people of God who keep his commands and remain faithful to Jesus.
Rev 20.4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They[a] had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands.
You need to be careful when proclaiming what the book of Revelation "says," since we are warned not to tamper with what it means to say. We're not perfect, but we should certainly take warning when others try to correct your incorrect impression.
Clearly, we're told that we *do not know what hour our Lord is coming.* How then does staying alert meet our Lord's concern about our need to be "watchful?" It is not by expecting that he can come at any time--that is an exercise in futility, since people throughout the ages could've conceivably been waiting all their lives for an event that would never happen!
No, the idea is to stay alert by continuing in obedience to our Lord, to remain *righteous.* This is how we remain alert to his coming, and to his coming judgment, by living in righteousness, and by staying alert to deceivers who would sidetrack us in our walk with the Lord.
Would it be possible to briefly lay out the "math" for the start in 2023? Thanks.
One of my friends is a strong pretribber and believes the rapture will occur this year. I told him that if he is still around next year, to give me a call.
If you add 1260+1335 (the numbers in Daniel) to august 23, 2021 you get September 30, 2028 which is the day of atonement for 2028.Would it be possible to briefly lay out the "math" for the start in 2023? Thanks.
One of my friends is a strong pretribber and believes the rapture will occur this year. I told him that if he is still around next year, to give me a call.
I agree, He doesn't say anything that doesn't have a purpose. All I'm saying is too much concern with the "hidden" isn't healthy. They have a name for such a thing, it's called the occult.
Along those lines it seems you might want to rename this thread "that which may not be named"I agree, He doesn't say anything that doesn't have a purpose. All I'm saying is too much concern with the "hidden" isn't healthy. They have a name for such a thing, it's called the occult.
It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.I agree, He doesn't say anything that doesn't have a purpose. All I'm saying is too much concern with the "hidden" isn't healthy. They have a name for such a thing, it's called the occult.
Well here are a few reasons.
1. Tu B'AV is Aug 23 and it is the happiest day on the Jewish calendar, it is the most auspicious day to grab a bride, it is the day that the dead in Christ rose first out of the graves in the wilderness, so many think it is a very good day for the rapture.
2. The rapture is likened to when Jesus went up the mount of transfiguration with some of the disciples. This was 6 days after Peter told Jesus He didn't need to go and die on the cross and was rebuked "get thee behind me Satan". If you to put that day on the calendar it would have to be the 9th of AV when the spies returned from spying out the land. Jesus asked who He was and Peter said you are the Christ (that was the good report of Joshua and Caleb) and he also gave the evil report. 6 days after the 9th of AV is Tu B'AV, the 15th of AV.
3. The account in Luke is a little different (no mention of Peter's evil report) and Luke says this day is "about eight days after". Eight days after in Luke refers to Jesus being circumcised and an offering to be made for the firstborn, it also refers to John the Baptist being circumcised and the offering for him as the firstborn, and the 15th of AV is always "the eighth day" (the sabbath is the 7th, 14th, etc).
4. This is also exactly 4 years after the 4 year warning given to the US with the solar eclipse over Washington DC. If you know the story where the Lord wants to cut down the fig tree after 3 years and the servant asks for one more year to dung it. This year in the Jewish calendar is "the dung year".
5. 2021 is exactly 1,335 years from when the mosque on the Dome of the rock was built, the abomination that makes desolation spoken of in Daniel.
6. Jeremiah indicates that the first rapture is in the summer with a prophecy that says "the summer is past and we are not saved".
7. Song of Songs chapter 2 indicates that the rapture is right as the figs are still green on the tree.
Interesting you say this. You see I recently got a girlfriend who like me sees visions but she has more vivid ones than I do and I told her today about when I was first saved about a week or two in how I have always wanted just one day with the Lord how I had the whole day planned out but sat in front of my bed and asked him can I even have this day with you and an angel sudden appeared to me and said yes you can and suddcenly I was asceneding upwards towards my ceiling I had never heard of nor did I know what the rapture was but I just knew I was going to Jesus.
She said she had chills when I told her this and said she had a vision of the rapture as well before and that she didn't know the day only that the number 23 was involved
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Ruby123
Guest
Would it be possible to briefly lay out the "math" for the start in 2023? Thanks.
One of my friends is a strong pretribber and believes the rapture will occur this year. I told him that if he is still around next year, to give me a call.
The maths is in the video I posted in post #226. I thought it was a great video.
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Ruby123
Guest
Okay, I just saw it, and found it very interesting, with some glaring deficiencies and errors.
1) There is no Pretrib Rapture of the Church.
2) Nowhere in the Scriptures are we told that Adam lived for 33.5 years before he sinned.
So, all of this prediction work is based on extra-Scriptural information, which should be rejected. Nevertheless, I also am an advocate of the Millennial Day theory. And I also think Christ died in 30 AD.
I would agree that God is precise. But He is also precise with His words, and said we cannot know the exact date of Christ's Return, which is the last day of the age.
So the Millennial "days" may be approximate millenniums, or there may be another adjustment in the formula. What I do know is that Christ will not come for his Church before the destruction of Antichrist. He will come for his Church at the same time he comes to destroy Antichrist. Paul says this in 2 Thes 2.
Everything else if very interesting. I appreciate you sharing it.
Incidentally, there are many other numerological coincidences in history, if you care to discuss them elsewhere? I've been studying them for decades!
Well we dont know whether pre trib rapture is wrong but we will find out for sure soon enough. I think all three theories have flaws.
Secondly the bible did not state that Adam lived without sin for 33 years but given Jesus undid perfectly the sin of Adam and its consequences it does give thought as to why Jesus died at the age of 33. I mean why else that particular age? So although we dont know for sure it certainly is plausible.
Also the death of Jesus - 30AD (made creation 4000 yrs old and 2030 would make it 6000 yrs old. God said man was to work for six days, then rest on the seventh. So when we reach 2030 (six thousand years or six days, could that mean then the beginning of the millenium for a thousand years or the one day of rest)
I have another video that I watched as well which was also very interesting that I can post to you if I can find it. This guy uses alot of scripture but unfortunately he teaches it like a history school lesson so you really have to fight
Nevertheless it was still interesting
Well we dont know whether pre trib rapture is wrong but we will find out for sure soon enough. I think all three theories have flaws.
Secondly the bible did not state that Adam lived without sin for 33 years but given Jesus undid perfectly the sin of Adam and its consequences it does give thought as to why Jesus died at the age of 33. I mean why else that particular age? So although we dont know for sure it certainly is plausible.
Also the death of Jesus - 30AD (made creation 4000 yrs old and 2030 would make it 6000 yrs old. God said man was to work for six days, then rest on the seventh. So when we reach 2030 (six thousand years or six days, could that mean then the beginning of the millenium for a thousand years or the one day of rest)
I have another video that I watched as well which was also very interesting that I can post to you if I can find it. This guy uses alot of scripture but unfortunately he teaches it like a history school lesson so you really have to fight
Yea, I'm interested in anything the Lord brings my way for whatever reason. I could suggest a reason why 33.5 years for Jesus? It's because 30 years is the age one under the Law enters into priesthood. Jesus was, however, a different kind of priest, and not in the line of Aaronic, nor Levitical, priests.
Jesus served for perhaps 3.5 years, since Dan 9 indicates that the midst of a "week" offerings are terminated. I take this, and the Church Fathers took this, as Christ's death brought about the end of offerings under the Law in the eyes of God. The veil was ripped from heaven to earth, destroying in a "half a week" of Christ's ministry the full "week" of God's work in redeeming mankind. That is, Jesus died in the midst of historical redemption, 4000 years after the creation of Man, and 3000 years before the New Creation.
It may or may not be true that Jesus, in his 33.5 years replaced the 33.5 years of Adam's innocence--we're just not told. I don't know that the thousand years "Millennial days" are precise, or approximate. What I do know is that biblically, we don't know the last day of the age.
I see nothing wrong with Postrib doctrine, since I believe Paul teaches it in 2 Thes 2. And it is based on Dan 7, which is the only passage that lays out the doctrine of the coming of the Son of Man to destroy Antichrist. He comes from the clouds, after receiving a mandate from heaven, to save the saints and to destroy the enemies of the saints. And he comes to establish the Kingdom of God. All doctrine of Christ's 2nd Coming in the NT is based on this pattern, and uses the same exact language.
The problem of knowing exact time periods is not a problem with me, since I don' t believe we know any of these dates with precision. And I do recognize that we do see patterns of times and seasons, and can recognize the season that we are in. It's just that we are exhorted not to focus on trying to establish prophetic calendars, but to rather focus on what God is showing us in our own time. Obviously, as we get closer to the end, what we see before us does concern the time of the end, and the pattern does emerge more clearly, apparently.
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pottersclay
Guest
Well there is a time line . Very sorry you can't see it. Your pretty insulting which would suggest one who thinks they have arrived.
The appointed times that jesus fulfills are the time line.
Jesus fulfilled the first 4 appointed times. There are 7 in all.
The age of grace is the present time better known as the time of the gentiles. Soon to end.
Study the parable of the fig tree and what it means...not for me but jesus points to it.
No our God does not talk in riddles but to some it's taken as foolishness.
Your stop in daniel by the way refers to the suffering servant cut short. In other words Christ crucifixion. .....thought you should know o wise one.
Don't mean to be insulting. I talk like I know things because I've been discussing them for 50 years. If you've been talking about something for 50 years, you might sound like you know what you're talking about too!
But I'm as weak as the next guy, and am aware of my deficiencies. I try to remain open even when I'm convinced I'm right. At the very least, I don't wish to lose friendship with brothers and sisters in Christ. So let's not let "who's right" becomes an obstacle to that?
I don't see the "Age of the Gentiles" the way Dispensationalists typically do, as if Israel is the center of the universe. They were just the 1st nation God began to work with to set a model for the rest of the nations. God is impartial, and does not have a favorite nation anymore.
The end of the "age of the Gentiles" refers to the end of world hostility to Israel as a nation called of God. But in reality, there are many nations who have been called of God--Christian nations who, like Israel, have stumbled. I believe they also will be recovered in the Millennium when Christ comes again.
Have you heard that the second coming of Jesus is only a generation away? This was said on the basis that every generation may be the one that will herald his coming or in other words every generation has the opportunity to bring back the King. Once a generation passes, that privilege is passed onto the next generation.