Biblical Eternal Security vs 'Calvinistic Eternal Security' -by Gregg Jackson

[Evmur]

So now your saying that made is held responsible for things he has no control over. What kind of theology do you have. You have made God sound the same if not worse than satan. What is wrong with your logic. Step back form the edge and take a serious look at what you espouse.
Man has consequences just because he does have a free will.

Why don't you THINK about what is being said? you quote C. H. Spurgeon but you certainly do not understand him, I am not Calvinist but he decidedly was..

Man is held responsible because he rebelled against the command of God, was he free to do so? did he have freewill in the matter of partaking of the forbidden tree? danged if he did. God said don't do it.

This word from God cannot be interpreted as "behold I give unto you freewill in the matter of eating of the forbidden fruit"

What happened was the devil DECEIVED him into believing that there would be no consequences he is in effect saying "go ahead you may freely partake of the tree, you have freewill in the matter, you won't die"

The doctrine of human freewill is that selfsame deception, the devil uses it today to get christians to sin.

It's the devil's debate society

The temptation comes, you know God says there are consequences if you sin, the devil says "well maybe just this one time, it's just a little sin"
You say "I mustn't"
The devil says "go on"

And BANG you are doing it.

The devil wins this battle every single time

And christians are so confused and baffled by this, they thought they were strong, they thought they had gotten the victory, they cannot understand why they have done it. It's because they entered into unspoken dialogue with the devil and he will always win.

Adam and Eve's job was to say "begone Satan we obey our Creator" and that should be our answer to him today.

 

[Kidron]

It's either yes or no. You can't admit that you stumble and sin even a bit, because in your mind you are perfect.

You've been taught that you are supposed to sin, to expect it, and then you are supposed to run to 1st John 1:9 to make it all better.

That is actually devil designed religious heresy.


Notice this verse........"As many as be PERFECT"..........see that verse? That is Paul explaining real Christianity.

Notice this verse.....>The fullness of the Stature of Christ"......... see that verse? That is talking to the born again Christian, and is explaining how you are to exist on this earth.......while you are breathing.


See this verse that you have never read before i showed up? "" As Christ IS.....so are the born again ... IN THIS WORLD"....

And why are you hearing all this Real Christianity from some "alt" on a "forum", and not from your pastor, church, donomination?
Its Because man made cults that are not related to the Cross of Christ, can only teach you, NOTHING.

 

[Kidron]

We who are saved confess our sins

You confess your sin, because you have no understanding of the Blood of Jesus, or the Cross of Christ.
You're a pretender. A religious pretender, who believes you can lose your salvation, so you are trying to "stay saved" by works, confessing, repenting, and any other self effort you can try to perform.
See, if you actually trusted Christ you would BELIEVE that The blood of Jesus that saved you, keeps you saved.
But you dont.
So, you are confessing and trying to by self effort, do for yourself, (self saving) .... what only Christ has accomplished.
Paul defines this as "falling from Grace".

 

[FreeGrace2]

I know God is omniscient, and that we are dead in sin, and therefore unable to come to the cross unless God gifts us with faith.

But you have failed to quote any verse that says this. But you mistakenly think Eph 2:8 does. It doesn't. The gift is salvation.

The Bible says belief (faith) comes from the heart. Not from God. Rom 10:9

So Rom 10:9 refutes your misunderstanding of Eph 2:8. Paul wrote both verses.

 

[FreeGrace2]

it proves that man has a will ... I never doubted it, what I dispute is that it is free.

The problem is your misunderstanding of what free means. It means man's will is free to choose from among options.

iow, man has no ability to choose the kind of weather he wants. Man cannot "change his spots" either.

Man CAN, however, understand the gospel and either believe it or refuse to believe it. The Bible actually says people refuse to believe the gospel.

Now, if you believe that words mean things, you should understand that the word 'refuse' indicates a CHOICE.

So, since man CAN refuse to believe the gospel, man is also ABLE to believe the gospel. It goes both ways.

Man is a servant, Paul actually says slave, to whosoever we obey.

Thank you for noting that. Paul went on to show that man has a CHOICE in whom he will obey.

Rom 6:16 - Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

If you don't see a choice here, please ask and I will be happy to show it to you.

If man had freewill there would be no consequences, the consequences of his disobedience were immediate and they were huge.

I really don't understand how anyone could come up with this absurd conclusion.

Consequences are the result of choices. Duh. We find this principle all through the Bible.

One of my favorite verses:

Isa 1:18-20
18 “Come now, let us settle the matter,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.” For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

This passage proves freedom of the will clearly.

v.18 is the Lord asking humans to "settle the matter with Him".
v.19 is a conditional statement: IF IF IF you are WILLING and obedient, there are consequences; blessings.
v.20 is a conditional statement: IF IF IF you RESIST (refuse) and rebel, there are consequences; punishment.

Again, if you don't see a free choice here, please ask.

Adam's will was that he would be like God the reality was he was cast out of his beautiful home and must now earn his living by the sweat of his brow. So he did have a will but it was not free.

Of course it was free. Please explain who made the choice of eating the fruit???

 

[FreeGrace2]

Did you create yourself?

This is not an intelligent question. Everyone knows that no one did. And this has NO relevance to man's freedom of will.

did God come and consult with you as to whether you should be born? where you would be born to whom? how many toes would you like?

None of this has any relevance to freedom of the willl.

You are way off base in your confused thinking.

What then is God a tyrant?

How could He be when He gave man freedom to choose? That kind of question should be directed at Calvinists.

are we mere robots?

Pretty much what Calvinists describe.

why don't folks become angry about this, that God should create us out of His own good will?

It's NOT an issue regarding the freedom of man's will.

But when it comes to the much higher spiritual life, the new birth, suddenly God must play the gentleman, He must come and curtsy before us and ask us right nicely "please dear sir, may I save you today?"

This is just a very twisted and perverted misunderstanding of what "freedom of the will" means.

Why Calvinists persist in viewing the concept of free will as it having power to do things. That is ludicrous.

Opportunity (choice) has no power.

How much power did you exert when you chose the sox you CHOSE to wear this morning? Do you see how silly that sounds?

 

[Evmur]

This is not an intelligent question. Everyone knows that no one did. And this has NO relevance to man's freedom of will.


None of this has any relevance to freedom of the willl.

You are way off base in your confused thinking.


How could He be when He gave man freedom to choose? That kind of question should be directed at Calvinists.


Pretty much what Calvinists describe.


It's NOT an issue regarding the freedom of man's will.


This is just a very twisted and perverted misunderstanding of what "freedom of the will" means.

Why Calvinists persist in viewing the concept of free will as it having power to do things. That is ludicrous.

Opportunity (choice) has no power.

How much power did you exert when you chose the sox you CHOSE to wear this morning? Do you see how silly that sounds?

what a waste of time

 

[JerryInBoston]

Man had a choice from the beginning (whether to be obedient) and has a choice now, which choice is always dependant on God's will. God has a sovereign will which can and does cause man to do one thing and not another. Since man is completely dead spiritually and unable to believe by and through his own conscious volition, God's sovereign will, perfect righteousness, and perfect love will cause spiritually dead men to see and to hear all that God wants them to see and hear in order to quicken their spiritually dead souls into believing. When God arranged HIS creation, HE foreknew all that would believe, and those that God causes to believe are the elect to whom HE gifts persevering faith.

The Bible clearly supports the foregoing.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Free will is the reason a person makes a choice to believe in Jesus or not.

God does not choose that for you.........You choose it for yourself, and that is why you can't stand before God after you die and say....."you made me not choose Christ"....>"you forced me not to choose to be saved".

And God will say......"Liars are not permitted to stay here, just like Christ Rejectors are not permitted to stay here"..

= "DEPART !!!"

You've just condemned yourself because you are a liar and you preach a different gospel.

 

[Kidron]

You've just condemned yourself because you are a liar and you preach a different gospel.

Im a "Son of God"......>"Made Righteous". "One with God, In Christ".

Here are my sins.... 2nd Corinthians 5:21.

Now, what you have to ask yourself, is ......>"why don't i know any of this"..

You have to solve that, and running from one cult to another is not the answer, Jerry.
Believe it.

 

[Mem]

Who's will are you following when you go against God's will? What logical somersaults have to be made to assert that those that go against God's will are going along with God's will?

 

[Kidron]

Jesus was a man., virgin born.
On His way to the Cross, He had a conversation with God, His Father.
He said......"not MY WILL.......but YOURS be done".

See that?
That's free will., as freewill will always involves a CHOICE.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Im a "Son of God"......>"Made Righteous". "One with God, In Christ".

Here are my sins.... 2nd Corinthians 5:21.

Now, what you have to ask yourself, is ......>"why don't i know any of this"..

You have to solve that, and running from one cult to another is not the answer, Jerry.
Believe it.

You follow not Jesus, but your own unbiblical antinomian understanding. I follow Jesus.

Paul also followed Jesus, and Jesus clearly said: Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

You have a deadly misunderstanding of God's word. Antinomiamism is lawlessness. Please repent and believe in what Jesus said.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Jesus was a man., virgin born.
On His way to the Cross, He had a conversation with God, His Father.
He said......"not MY WILL.......but YOURS be done".

See that?
That's free will., as freewill will always involves a CHOICE.

You are a heretic. Jesus was always God, not only in the flesh, and not only on HIS way to the cross, but in the timelessness of eternity.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
This is not an intelligent question. Everyone knows that no one did. And this has NO relevance to man's freedom of will.

what a waste of time

I agree. No point wasting any time on such questions.

 

[Kidron]

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Let me teach that verse to you.. Jerry

The question is...who are those who do the will of the Father?
Now, you dont know what this will is, so, let me show you..

its this....... ""that you believe on Jesus, whom God sent".

See that?
That's God's will for humanity. Its the same offer as found here.... John 3:16

Jesus, then defines it here.....>"You must be born again".

Ok then, im looking forward to your next question.

 

[Kidron]

You are a heretic. Jesus was always God, not only in the flesh, and not only on HIS way to the cross, but in the timelessness of eternity.

You are a proven fool, with zero understanding of the NT or anything related to Soteriology.
And you'll prove it again.

Here is the reality...

Jesus was/is "the 2nd Adam".
Who is the first? ....... A.) Its a "man"
Think on that..

Also, Jesus had to become One of us to save all of Us.'

Notice this verse.....>"God manifested in the FLESH".

God wrapped Himself in Human Flesh, and was born of a Virgin.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Let me teach that verse to you.. Jerry

The question is...who are those who do the will of the Father?
Now, you dont know what this will is, so, let me show you..

its this....... ""that you believe on Jesus, whom God sent".

See that?
That's God's will for humanity. Its the same offer as found here.... John 3:16

Jesus, then defines it here.....>"You must be born again".

Ok then, im looking forward to your next question.

The will of the Father is that you repent and believe, abstain from all sexual immorality, give thanks in all things, submit to governing authorities that are there to protect you, abide in Jesus, be obedient to all that Jesus commanded, folliw Him, lean not on your own understanding, etc.

You can't say you are doing the will of the Father if you reject the clear directives of HIS word.

 

[Kidron]

The will of the Father is that you repent and believe,

Thx.
I just wrote that to you.

Good job reposting it.


........next.

 

[JerryInBoston]

And you are a proven fool, with zero understanding of the NT or anything related to Soteriology.
And you'll prove it again.

Here is the reality...

Jesus was/is "the 2nd Adam".
Who is the first? ....... A.) Its a "man"
Think on that..

Also, Jesus had to become One of us to save all of Us.'

Notice this verse.....>"God manifested in the FLESH".

God wrapped Himself in Human Flesh, and was born of a Virgin.

If you agree that Jesus is the eternal Son of the eternal Godhead consisting of Father Son and Spirit, then I have misunderstood your messages. If you can't say you agree with that, you lack understanding and wisdom, and you teach a different Christ.