Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

[TMS]

What does Sodom have to do with eternal punishment?

Eternal doesn't always mean eternal...., if it did there would be contradictions in the bible. Sodom didn't burn for eternity it's consequences are eternal. We should understand this when we read verses referring to the eternal hell. The fire of hell will be eternal not burning for eternity but the result will be for ever and ever.

Luk_17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Jud_1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[TMS]

can you burn when you are literally dead, Physically, mentally and spiritually dead? when there is nothing to burn Can you burn?

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Think about it. Who is saying? ...."Eternal life is given to everyone, some in heaven and some in hell." This is a Lie from Satan...

 

[Runningman]

Good night all

Good night.

 

[Magenta]

What does Sodom have to do with eternal punishment?

It was said it would burn forever, yet it no longer burns. The term forever has been discussed with many examples given over a number of posts PROVING that forever does NOT always mean without end. Go back and start with this post. Then read posts #348 and 349

Also it would be helpful if people excepted death as punishment. Obviously some do not.

The second death is eternal punishment because it lasts forever after.

 

[Magenta]

^^ *Accepted, not excepted

 

[ewq1938]

What does Sodom have to do with eternal punishment?

Eternal fire burned it yet that doesn't mean something burned in eternal fire will itself burn eternally. Also, we are discussing eternal torment as in being tormented/tortured eternally. Both sides agree the punishment is eternal but disagree on what that punishment is. One side says the eternal punishment or to be painfully burned forever where other side says the eternal punishment is death.

 

[ewq1938]

"
Verse 26
The last enemy that shall be abolished is death

Satan is destroyed before death is destroyed.

 

[TMS]

Eternal fire burned it yet that doesn't mean something burned in eternal fire will itself burn eternally. Also, we are discussing eternal torment as in being tormented/tortured eternally. Both sides agree the punishment is eternal but disagree on what that punishment is. One side says the eternal punishment or to be painfully burned forever where other side says the eternal punishment is death.

Death or eternal life in pain. what will it be?

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
......
Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

To say that you will not surely/ really/ completely die is to repeat the first lie of Satan, Death is the result of sin not eternal life in hell. Jesus has given a way out (Praise God), but if we choose death we will die for ever and ever.

 

[SteveEpperson]

Please explain without scripture

Why in Hell would I wanna do that?

 

[PaulChristensen]

Gosh. How many times must one enter? Do you believe you can lose your salvation?

Just praying the sinner's prayer is the start, but there is a race to be run and we are to be steadfast to the end. Paul knew this when he said that he makes sure that he continues to make progress in the faith lest after preaching to others he ends up being a castaway. Judas was one of the 12 disciples, and did miracles along with them when they went out into the towns and villages. But he didn't make because he turned against Christ. Demas was another one who fell by the wayside after being a close member of Paul's ministry team. So, it's not a matter of making a initial decision to profess Christianity and then stay on the couch and not make any further effort to allow Christ to do His work in us.

 

[Magenta]

Just praying the sinner's prayer is the start, but there is a race to be run and we are to be steadfast to the end. Paul knew this when he said that he makes sure that he continues to make progress in the faith lest after preaching to others he ends up being a castaway. Judas was one of the 12 disciples, and did miracles along with them when they went out into the towns and villages. But he didn't make because he turned against Christ. Demas was another one who fell by the wayside after being a close member of Paul's ministry team. So, it's not a matter of making a initial decision to profess Christianity and then stay on the couch and not make any further effort to allow Christ to do His work in us.

You did not answer my questions. You simply raise new ones. Judas was doomed; he was never saved.

Back to the original questions:

How many times must one enter the narrow gate?

Do you believe you can lose your salvation?

 

[PaulChristensen]

Do you think Jesus makes idle threats?

You know that answer already.
The problems with our modern "feel good" Christianity, is that people don't want to think about the wrath of God and the prospect of spending eternity in a place where nothing good is possible. Instead of "flee from the wrath to come", these days it is "come to Jesus your friend and He will give you a better life, prosperity, save your marriage and give you great meaning in life."

The modern emphasis is coming to Christ for God to do something in us. What has been forgotten is that is not the Gospel of Christ. It is another Gospel and those who subscribe to it may get a horrible shock at the judgment. Oh yes, modern Christians don't want to think about a day of judgment either.

The real Gospel involves what Jesus has done for us, and that is what genuine converts to Christ are putting their trust in.

 

[Magenta]

You know that answer already.
The problems with our modern "feel good" Christianity, is that people don't want to think about the wrath of God and the prospect of spending eternity in a place where nothing good is possible. Instead of "flee from the wrath to come", these days it is "come to Jesus your friend and He will give you a better life, prosperity, save your marriage and give you great meaning in life."

The modern emphasis is coming to Christ for God to do something in us. What has been forgotten is that is not the Gospel of Christ. It is another Gospel and those who subscribe to it may get a horrible shock at the judgment. Oh yes, modern Christians don't want to think about a day of judgment either.

The real Gospel involves what Jesus has done for us, and that is what genuine converts to Christ are putting their trust in.

I do not assume to know what you think.

Your track record is becoming one of not answering questions.

 

[PaulChristensen]

You did not answer my questions. You simply raise new ones. Judas was doomed; he was never saved.

Back to the original questions:

How many times must one enter the narrow gate?

Do you believe you can lose your salvation?

The Scripture says that those who persevere to the end shall be saved. What does that say to you?

Anyone can walk up to the front at church and say, I am saved now." But if they don't carry on to show the fruit of repentance and just carry on with the live they lived before, then they may end up falling short.

 

[PaulChristensen]

I do not assume to know what you think.

Your track record is becoming one of not answering questions.

We all need to examine ourselves to ensure that we are really in the faith. As I said, Demas was a close supporter of Paul and in his ministry team. But he did not keep running the race, but dropped out back into the world. There is a reasonable doubt that Demas will make it all the way through the narrow gate, and when he seeks to enter into to heaven, he may find the door shut against him.

 

[Magenta]

The Scripture says that those who persevere to the end shall be saved. What does that say to you?

Anyone can walk up to the front at church and say, I am saved now." But if they don't carry on to show the fruit of repentance and just carry on with the live they lived before, then they may end up falling short.

How many times must one enter the narrow gate? Well, I entered once. I was born again, and sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory."

God promised that that He would never forsake me, that Jesus would allow no one to snatch me out of His hand.

John 10:27-28
Scripture also states that those who leave, never belonged in the first place.

1 John 2:19

 

[CS1]

can you burn when you are literally dead, Physically, mentally and spiritually dead? when there is nothing to burn Can you burn?

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Think about it. Who is saying? ...."Eternal life is given to everyone, some in heaven and some in hell." This is a Lie from Satan...

that rationale is not what Jesus said about hell. Yes, you can burn when you are literally dead people burn bodies every day. Jesus said that the torment will never end. Conditionalists error they believe the wicked will eventually cease to be.

The problem with this teaching is it reduced the words of Christ who is the Supreme authority on the topic because HE is the One who said most about hell and the context of it. it was not some well-versed theologian who holds to a Conditionalist or Annihilationist viewpoint.

The Lord Jesus said :


Matthew 13: And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 24:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Matthew 24:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Mark 9:48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’

Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

None of the Apostles in their writings contradicted what Jesus said about Hell's eternal punishment.

Jude 1:7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,


Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”


Hell is a place prepared by God who is Eternal, therefore He made hell to be such a place. In contrast, God also made an Eternal way to not go to that PLACE. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only eternal way.

 

[Runningman]

that rationale is not what Jesus said about hell. Yes, you can burn when you are literally dead people burn bodies every day. Jesus said that the torment will never end. Conditionalists error they believe the wicked will eventually cease to be.

The problem with this teaching is it reduced the words of Christ who is the Supreme authority on the topic because HE is the One who said most about hell and the context of it. it was not some well-versed theologian who holds to a Conditionalist or Annihilationist viewpoint.

The Lord Jesus said :


Matthew 13: And throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 24:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Matthew 24:41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Mark 9:48 ‘where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’

Mark 9:43 And if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than with two hands to go to hell, to the unquenchable fire.

None of the Apostles in their writings contradicted what Jesus said about Hell's eternal punishment.

Jude 1:7
Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,


Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest, day or night, these worshipers of the beast and its image, and whoever receives the mark of its name.”


Hell is a place prepared by God who is Eternal, therefore He made hell to be such a place. In contrast, God also made an Eternal way to not go to that PLACE. The Lord Jesus Christ is the only eternal way.

I don't think those verses mean what you say they mean for a variety of reasons.

1. Matthew 13 doesn't say it's eternal.

2. Matthew 24:46 speaks of 'eternal punishment." Death is an eternal punishment. Everyone else gets life.

3. Matthew 24:41 just says the fire is eternal.

4. Mark 9:48 does not speak of eternal conscious torment.

5. Mark 9:43, again only says the fire is forever, not the suffering.

6. Jude 1:7, but Sodom and Gomorrah is not still burning. It's not that they are burning eternally.

7. 2 Thessalonians 1:9 supports eternal destruction. Eternal destruction is death.

8. Revelation 14:11 speaks only of the smoke going up forever. It doesn't say they have no rest day or night forever.

Really read these verses carefully. We have a duty to not inject our biases into the scriptures.

 

[1ofthem]

Eternal doesn't always mean eternal...., if it did there would be contradictions in the bible. Sodom didn't burn for eternity it's consequences are eternal. We should understand this when we read verses referring to the eternal hell. The fire of hell will be eternal not burning for eternity but the result will be for ever and ever.

Luk_17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Jud_1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

I don't understand what is so hard about those verses.

We know it's not talking about the actually "cities" of Sodom and Gomorrha. Buildings are not going to rise up in judgment. They burned up, are done away with, never to rise again.

So it has to be talking about the people or "souls" of the cities.

They were set on fire on the earth (killed the body) and their souls were sent to Hell, and they are still there awaiting judgement.

The earthly fire burned out...but the "eternal fire" is still burning. Their bodies died long ago, but their souls are still being destroyed in torment in Hell.

The next step for them is the Lake of Fire which scripture refers to as the "eternal fire" or "unquenchable fire",

They are still suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[TheLearner]

Eternal doesn't always mean eternal...., if it did there would be contradictions in the bible. Sodom didn't burn for eternity it's consequences are eternal. We should understand this when we read verses referring to the eternal hell. The fire of hell will be eternal not burning for eternity but the result will be for ever and ever.

Luk_17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Jud_1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

It is my understanding from my Hebrew NT is the they are experiencing the eternal fire now and more after the judgement.

Robertson Word Pictures:
Suffering (upexousai). Present active participle of upexw, old compound, to hold under, often with dikhn (right, justice, sentence II Thessalonians 1:9) to suffer sentence (punishment), here only in N.T.

Of eternal fire (purov aiwniou). Like desmoiv aidioiv in verse Judges 1:7. Cf. the hell of fire (Matthew 5:22) and also Matthew 25:46. Jude has no mention of Lot.


Jude 7

Expanded Bible



7 Also remember the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah [C destroyed by God for their evil; Gen. 19; 2 Pet. 2:6] and the other towns around them. In the same way they were full of sexual sin and people who ·desired sexual relations that God does not allow [pursued sexual perversion; L departed after different flesh]. They suffer the punishment of eternal fire, as an ·example [warning] for all to see.

They suffer the punishment of eternal fire, is present tense.

Jude
5 I want to help you remember some things you already know: Remember that the Lord[a] saved his people by bringing them out of the land of Egypt. But later he destroyed all those who did not believe. 6 And remember the angels who lost their authority to rule. They left their proper home. So the Lord has kept them in darkness, bound with everlasting chains, to be judged on the great day. 7 Also, remember the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah and the other towns around them. Like those angels they were full of sexual sin and involved themselves in sexual relations that are wrong. And they suffer the punishment of eternal fire, an example for us to see.

Both the angels being held and suffering the punishment are present tense.

Are you aware of any passages in the OT that says God used eternal fire to destroy Sodom?

Gen 19
24 and the Lord began to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. He caused fire and burning sulfur to fall from the sky. 25 He destroyed the whole valley—all the cities, the people living in the cities, and all the plants in the valley.

As you can see Genesis does NOT say it was eternal fire.