Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

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ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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How convenient, its speaking of totally different things. You guys are something else, just dodging the truth in every possible way. No scripture is safe.
How convenient! It's speaking of totally different things. You guys are something else, just dodging the truth in every possible way. No scripture is safe.
 

CS1

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May 23, 2012
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If you want to do that then why not take an average of the verses that support eternal torment versus the number that support destruction? There's one verse that literally says anyone gets tormented forever and it's precisely three persons: the devil, beast, and false prophet, but that comes with a plot twist. The devil is/will be destroyed in Hebrews 2:14.

The ratio of eternal torment verses to annihilation verses is something like 1:~15-20. (I'm taking my best guess, I haven't counted... yet) So the odds of eternal torment being scriptural are slim even if we factor in a few of the verses that seem to be borderline pro-eternal torment.

I fully believe the Bible is complete and without contradiction. The case for annihilation is 100% biblical in my view.

And no I am not a Jehovah's Witness or anywhere close to that. I'm a humble Bible scholar with nothing but sincerity in my pursuit of truth.
the problem is annihilation is not contextual with an eternal torment Jesus spoke about in context to hell. it's just not there :)
 

ewq1938

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Oct 18, 2018
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I know some may say.... what about Sodom and Gomorrah? The scripture says that their fire will burn forever. So it couldn't really mean forever could it?

Well, I think that is evident that it does mean forever. The souls that were in Sodom and Gomorrah are still in hell awaiting judgment, and when judgment comes they will be thrown in the Lake of Fire forever. So yeah, God set them on fire, they are still burning, and will burn forever.

Jude 1:7
Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

So yeah, It seems their fire will burn forever and never be extinguished.
Sodom stopped burning thousands of years ago. The fire God used against Sodom was eternal fire but the target of that eternal fire only burned for a short time. God is a consuming fire and that fire is eternal and that is the fire God sent down upon Sodom.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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You keep saying devil WILL be, it says of a past event in Hebrews 2:14.

Its talking about what Jesus did on the cross
The devil isn't destroyed yet. The devil is alive and well and working in the world. The devil is the one with the power over death and the last enemy to be destroyed is death.

1 Corinthians 15:26
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

You're saying the devil is already destroyed. If that's the case then it would be impossible to die spiritually and we wouldn't need to do anything because eternal life would be the only remaining option.

Spiritual life and spiritual rebirth come through Christ alone and they require our faith.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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At death the spirit goes back to God. The body decays and the soul is somewhere awaiting judgment.

At judgment God gives the spirit of the dead back and even their bodies will be resurrected. At this time, if spirit was not regenerated because they did not accept the sacrifice of Christ, then it will die again for the 2nd and last time = separated from God forever. This 2nd time the spirit will remain dead or separated from God forever because there remains no more sacrifice. Jesus is not coming back to sacrifice and die again. The next time He comes, He is coming for judgement.

If 2nd death follows along the same lines of the first death then the consciousness of man will still exist, but separated from God forever... eternal damnation and punishment. They will have no rest day or night because Jesus is our only rest and they rejected him. So they will live on forever with the knowledge of this.
Pease excuse me for editing your post to just these points, as they are what I wish to address/focus on. I can certainly appreciate that you are open minded enough to re-examine your beliefs and maybe even assumptions, particularly since you are doing it line by line and precept by precept which is a Biblically prescribed manner :)

I have bolded a couple of statements you made above and in the spirit of being consistent I would like to see where this first one is stated in Scripture. Likewise for the second statement I bolded above. The fact is the dead know nothing (explicitly stated in Scripture), so saying the second death is like the first and the consciousness man is retained actually contradicts what Scripture explicitly states.
 
Mar 17, 2021
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The outer darkness is not described as hell. That is where those who are not allowed at the wedding supper are.

The outer darkness you refer to is three times mentioned in Matthew:

But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the
darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 6:12


Then the king told the attendants, 'Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside,
into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 22:13


And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness,
where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 25:30


So please follow your recommendation of quoting Scripture correctly;):)

Imagine being tossed outside to await your fate knowing those inside are
feasting and preparing for their life ever after, while you await your doom.


Weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth aplenty, I would think.

Hell gets tossed into the lake of fire.
Regardless, we should all continue to strive to enter into the narrow gate and remain steadfast in the faith so that we are not shut out and end up separated from God and all the good things He created.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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Regardless, we should all continue to strive to enter into the narrow gate and remain steadfast in the faith so that we are not shut out and end up separated from God and all the good things He created.
Gosh. How many times must one enter? Do you believe you can lose your salvation?
 

1ofthem

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Mar 30, 2016
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Sodom stopped burning thousands of years ago. The fire God used against Sodom was eternal fire but the target of that eternal fire only burned for a short time. God is a consuming fire and that fire is eternal and that is the fire God sent down upon Sodom.
Where are the souls of the people from Sodom and Gomorrah? Are they not in hell awaiting judgment?

Matthew 10
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

It sounds like the "people" of Sodom and Gomorrha will be in judgment. So it doesn't sound like they have been annihilated.

Yes, the earthly fire ceased thousands of years ago. Their body and their city was burned. However, their souls are still in hell awaiting judgment. The fire still has not ceased.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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It sounds like the "people" of Sodom and Gomorrha will be in judgment. So it doesn't sound like they have been annihilated.
Of course not. The second death follows the resurrection and judgment of all at the end of this age...
 

Tinkerbell725

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Jul 19, 2014
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Philippines Age 40
Sodom stopped burning thousands of years ago. The fire God used against Sodom was eternal fire but the target of that eternal fire only burned for a short time. God is a consuming fire and that fire is eternal and that is the fire God sent down upon Sodom.

Did you not read the verse? Sodom and Gomorrah was a glimpse of the eternal fire. A sample to be continued after judgement day. Their souls are in hell right now burning and they will be transferred to the lake of fire in the end.
 

Aaron56

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Jul 12, 2021
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There is no rest for anyone not under the blood as the wrath of God is poured out. After God’s wrath is poured out (Aaron56 skips a ton of scripture here) the demons and the damned are destroyed in the Lake of fire. The lake is contained in one of the initial heavens. Why? Because the initial heavens and earth encompass the whole of creation! BUT, those heavens and this earth will pass away before the advent of the new heaven and new earth.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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Pease excuse me for editing your post to just these points, as they are what I wish to address/focus on. I can certainly appreciate that you are open minded enough to re-examine your beliefs and maybe even assumptions, particularly since you are doing it line by line and precept by precept which is a Biblically prescribed manner :)

I have bolded a couple of statements you made above and in the spirit of being consistent I would like to see where this first one is stated in Scripture. Likewise for the second statement I bolded above. The fact is the dead know nothing (explicitly stated in Scripture), so saying the second death is like the first and the consciousness man is retained actually contradicts what Scripture explicitly states.
I'm not sure if this is addressed to me or not. It is quotes from my post, but has someone else's name on it.

If it is addressed to me, thanks for the reply. I am trying to take this point by point, line by line, and precept upon percept. I do want to make sure that I am following Biblically prescribed manner.

I'm a little pressed for time at the moment, but would like to discuss these points with you.

I will try get back to you on it shortly.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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I'm not sure if this is addressed to me or not. It is quotes from my post, but has someone else's name on it.

If it is addressed to me, thanks for the reply. I am trying to take this point by point, line by line, and precept upon percept. I do want to make sure that I am following Biblically prescribed manner.

I'm a little pressed for time at the moment, but would like to discuss these points with you.

I will try get back to you on it shortly.
Thank you, yes, I thought I was quoting you but when I saw the other name I thought I had simply been mistaken and did not go back to check (it was on a different page)... I look forward to your considerations, with my apologies to Hakawaka :)
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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How do you have the devil literally tormented day and night forever if he is also destroyed?

The word for destroyed (G2673) can be used in numerous ways based on context, but the translators of the KJV chose to render Hebrews 2:14 as the devil being destroyed. So that's what I am going to go with.

Now you see the devil is/was destroyed. It makes no difference when the devil is destroyed, only that Hebrews 2:14 says his destruction is sure.
14 These children are people with physical bodies. So Jesus himself became like them and had the same experiences they have. Jesus did this so that, by dying, he could destroy the one who has the power of death—the devil. 15 Jesus became like these people and died so that he could free them. They were like slaves all their lives because of their fear of death. 16 Clearly, it is not angels that Jesus helps. He helps the people who are from Abraham. 17 For this reason, Jesus had to be made like us, his brothers and sisters, in every way. He became like people so that he could be their merciful and faithful high priest in service to God. Then he could bring forgiveness for the people’s sins. 18 And now he can help those who are tempted. He is able to help because he himself suffered and was tempted.


Colossians 2:15

Easy-to-Read Version



15 He defeated the rulers and powers of the spiritual world. With the cross he won the victory over them and led them away, as defeated and powerless prisoners for the whole world to see

Revelation 1:18
I am the one who lives. I was dead, but look, I am alive forever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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Sodom stopped burning thousands of years ago. The fire God used against Sodom was eternal fire but the target of that eternal fire only burned for a short time. God is a consuming fire and that fire is eternal and that is the fire God sent down upon Sodom.
What does Sodom have to do with eternal punishment?
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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Brighton, MI
The devil isn't destroyed yet. The devil is alive and well and working in the world. The devil is the one with the power over death and the last enemy to be destroyed is death.

1 Corinthians 15:26
26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

You're saying the devil is already destroyed. If that's the case then it would be impossible to die spiritually and we wouldn't need to do anything because eternal life would be the only remaining option.

Spiritual life and spiritual rebirth come through Christ alone and they require our faith.
"
Verse 26
The last enemy that shall be abolished is death (εσχατος εχθρος καταργειτα ο θανατος). A rather free translation. Literally, "death (note article, and so subject) is done away (prophetic or futuristic use of present tense of same verb as in verse 1 Corinthians 15:24 (NAS)

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/rwp/1-corinthians-15.html