Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?
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GotQuestions:
What is Amyraldism / Four-Point Calvinism?
Amyraldism seems to resolve a problem that a belief in limited atonement presents—namely, the difficulty of reconciling Calvinism with passages that teach Christ died for everyone (John 3:16; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 John 2:2). But Amyraldism is not without its own difficulty: if Christ died for all men, then, logically, there are people in hell right now whose sins have been atoned for. Those in hell are not the elect, according to Amyraldism, so did God pass over people for whom Christ died? This is the main theological question facing Amyraldians, who respond by saying God’s salvation (through the unlimited sacrifice of Christ) is offered to everyone equally. But this salvation has a condition: faith. In one sense, God’s grace is universal—He desires all to be saved (2 Peter 3:9)—but, in another sense, His grace is narrowed down and applied (through election) only to those who do not reject salvation.
Amyraldism, or four-point Calvinism, is popular today among many evangelicals, including independent Bible churches, Baptists, and some Presbyterians. Four-point Calvinism is also, essentially, the position of Got Questions Ministries, as we hold the view that the extent of the atonement was unlimited.
What is Amyraldism / Four-Point Calvinism?
Amyraldism seems to resolve a problem that a belief in limited atonement presents—namely, the difficulty of reconciling Calvinism with passages that teach Christ died for everyone (John 3:16; 2 Peter 3:9; 1 John 2:2). But Amyraldism is not without its own difficulty: if Christ died for all men, then, logically, there are people in hell right now whose sins have been atoned for. Those in hell are not the elect, according to Amyraldism, so did God pass over people for whom Christ died? This is the main theological question facing Amyraldians, who respond by saying God’s salvation (through the unlimited sacrifice of Christ) is offered to everyone equally. But this salvation has a condition: faith. In one sense, God’s grace is universal—He desires all to be saved (2 Peter 3:9)—but, in another sense, His grace is narrowed down and applied (through election) only to those who do not reject salvation.
Amyraldism, or four-point Calvinism, is popular today among many evangelicals, including independent Bible churches, Baptists, and some Presbyterians. Four-point Calvinism is also, essentially, the position of Got Questions Ministries, as we hold the view that the extent of the atonement was unlimited.
Nothing there remotely suggesting the eternal conscious torment that you're promoting.
A body/soul/spirit is either dead or alive. There are no logic errors in the Bible that you're proposing.
They can be called spirits but that doesn't mean they are bodiless spirits or ghosts like we tend to think of. Angels have bodies and they look like human men Just read the account of Lot.
Wow, I love this discussion. There are some information you need to put you through. Firstly, I will like to congratulate you for God loves you.
God designed the human Soul to live forever, He never anticipate there is going to be a day He will destroy mankind. His wishes for humanity are good. But we sinned. Let me tell you little about the implications of our sins.
When Adam and Eve disobeyed God and ate the forbidden fruit of evil, something remarkable happened which a know so many people didn't understand but let me explain that to you now. This will also help some people here.
The fruit of evil they ate gave them the knowledge of evil (mind). Their human body was only meant to be a vessel so that their Soul can manifest physically here on earth. The human flesh when created is without any form of life.
When they ate the forbidden fruit of evil, their human Soul was activated to life. Their flesh was given an evil mind through the forbidden fruit. Now our flesh can communicate with our Soul which wasn't the design of God for us.
Our disobedient to God's commandments had great implications and God is doing all things possible to redeem us. The trouble we get ourselves into is that it is in the knowledge of evil we have pains, sicknesses, sorrow, anger, poverty fear and all manners of horrible things you know is bad.
Funny enough, most people think it is God that caused all these things to happen to humanity just to punish us for our sins of disobeying Him. That is a lie from Satan the devil who caused it in the first place. God gave warnings to Adam and Eve when He planted the fruit and told them the implications.
If you are part of those who thought humanity began to die because God cursed them for disobeying Him then you need to have a rethink. It is in the evil fruit they ate death resides. You see, God never plan any evil for man.
I have you this little tutorials just for you to have an idea of where I'm going. Now I know the question in your mind is why eternal condemnation? An angel of God in heaven got full of himself and being jealous of humanity thought he also deserves a place of Lordship. He knew he have to contend with his creator of achieve that purpose and went ahead to take the risk.
He was armed with the deep misery he had about his creator and was also able to draw third part of God's angles to his side. Smart enough, he went and Insured his life in the love God had for Adam and Eve before going for the dangerous battle. How?
Satan was a good angle serving his purpose but transformed and possessed God's abandoned evil darkness just to achieve his aim. He possessed the evil and made sure Adam and his wife had a part of him before he left for the mission.
He knew it will be impossible for God to destroy him without destroying Adam and Eve together because he had implanted himself in their human flesh through the evil they ate.
He was absolutely right, God couldn't destroy him immediately after the failed in his mission because of us. He now create an opportunity for us to be saved. Since it is through disobedient we enter into evil, our obedience will get us out of it.
He send us over to our earth and gave us commandments to obey but ironically, no one was found worthy of keeping the laws. All Men is to be doomed with Satan but God in His unending mercies, came by Himself to do that which is difficult for Man. He saved us from condemnation and made salvation free.
He paid dearly. I relegated Himself and equal Himself with us, He paid a risky price to save us and in appreciation, we rejected Him and gave Him a horrible death for doing nothing wrong. We even prefer a notorious criminal than Him. Yet He went ahead to save us because He knew when the time comes to destroy the devil, we will also be condemned for he have implanted himself in our flesh.
Now my question to you is this; what do you want God to still do for sinners? The wages of sin is death. Sinners will die not because God choose to let them die but because their choice of obeying the evil mind of the flesh is death.
God had designed the Soul to live forever and the ones that doesn't want to go with God to live eternal life have planned to stay with the devil and be condemned. God cannot leave a sinful Soul in heaven, it is equal to allowing Satan to live with the saints then trouble continues.
Love you all
Scripture describes man as mortal. Scripture also makes plain that life is in Jesus Christ alone.
Someone now is saying that those who are dead to Christ are transformed into eternal beings by Satan.
Wherever did this reaching came from??? It is not Biblical.
Also, I believe I have already told you that as a Christian, I have never denied the Deity of Christ.
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Luke 20:36 KJV
God is not weak He just made spirits and angels that cannot die.
God cast out the devil, and the devil reign in hell. Whatever he does there has nothing to do with God. People have free will and a choice where to go. They can beg to come in, and be taken to heaven, or they get grabbed by the devil. Either you are marked by the holy spirit or demons. If you are marked by a demon, you need help from a priest to come back.
Regarding the difference between sheep and goats, I did not see a verser, but I will take a stab. Sheep are equated to us people, because we are blind and cannot see, we act emotional and dum, stubmle and fall all the time, poor choices made. Sheeps need shepharrds, they fall over, tumble into streams, get caught in mud and branches, all the time. The sheepfarmers lose like 15% of the sheeps when they are at the mountains grazing the 3 summermonths. Not designed for nature at all. While the goat can fend for itself better. Not as dumb and clumsy. I had a sheep in my yard this summer, and it started eating my flowers, I tried to shoo it away, and it charged me. It had two lambs with it. Was that smart of a mother? Plenty of grass to eat, but it just risked the lives of the children because it wanted my flowers instead. And never giving up, we battled for the turf for 2 hours.
God is not only merciful, He is just and righteous and decided His plan with an understanding so far beyond ours, to claim what He calls justice anything other than perfect would be pretty silly of a man or woman to do.
Kinda like a little kid who keeps stealing telling his parents what his punishment should be.
I trust God and His inspiried written word and I don't question His righteousness.
My relationship with God is that of a wonderful Father and a slightly thick headed son who constantly needs correction. I love Him so much. (and I know I need Him even more)
I'm so grateful for our Lord and Savior. Some people may not see a need for Him and think His words were just fluff. I take them serious.
If you can not trust the church fathers, then you can not trust the Bible because they were the ones who made copies of it to send to other churches.
It is your poor interpretation. James 2:26 speaks of death as separation of body and spirit-soul. That indicates that the spirit soul is alive after death as does Isaiah 14
Psalm 104:4
Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Hebrews 1:7
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
2 Corinthians 11:14
Good News Translation
14 Well, no wonder! Even Satan can disguise himself to look like an angel of light!
Matthew 22:30
For when the dead rise to life, they will be like the angels in heaven and will not marry.
Angels simply take on the appearance of being human.