What are the "Last Days?"

[randyk]

I heard the term "last days," and see a basic confusion with many who are trying to understand this term. What are the "last days," if they were designated as such in the apostles' time, and are also used for the end of the age?

Really, I think we need to understand that the term often reflects the fall of a civilization, such as when Israel declines as a nation of God, and is close to national judgment. It involves a state of apostasy from the true faith, and is accompanied by an imminent judgment of God against that nation. That is why it is termed "the last days," because a nation is close to coming to an end.

The entire NT era is, as I often point out, a period of "great tribulation" for the Jewish People. In Jesus time, Israel was coming to an end. It was the "last days" for Israel in the present era. They were engaged in the worst kind of apostasy--the rejection of their own Messiah, and the rejection of his eternal atonement for their sins. They were insistent in living in their own sin nature, independent of God, and covering it up with a facade of allegiance to the Law of Moses.

Their judgment would come about 40 years after Jesus was crucified by the Romans, in 70 AD. Clearly, those were the "last days" for Israel, even though there remains a future Hope for Israel, when Messiah returns.

So Israel came into a time of punishment called "the Great Tribulation." They were destroyed as a nation by the Romans, and sent into an age-long exile called the "Jewish Diaspora." Some like to identify the "Great Tribulation" as only 3.5 years at the end of the age, when Antichrist rules, persecutes the Church, and brings all kinds of calamities upon the earth from God.

But the truth is, the "Great Tribulation" began with Israel's "last days," when Israel fell into great apostasy and lawlessness, and came under an age-long period of judgment. During this same period, the Gospel message has been extended to non-Jewish nations, to enable them to learn the same lessons that Israel has learned, with the same results. Nations rise, become Christian, and then they backslide, sin, and come under judgment. Their "last days" ensue.

I hope this helps you understand why, biblically, the "last days" started back in the time of Israel's Roman judgment and continues until today? It isn't just the Rule of Antichrist, or an end-time period in which plagues are sent out into the earth. No, this is an age-long process in which nations hear the Gospel, respond, and then ultimately fall away, with few remaining to be faithful to the Lord.

 

[GaryA]

'last days' = the past ~2000 years

 

[Ahwatukee]

I heard the term "last days," and see a basic confusion with many who are trying to understand this term. What are the "last days," if they were designated as such in the apostles' time, and are also used for the end of the age?

Really, I think we need to understand that the term often reflects the fall of a civilization, such as when Israel declines as a nation of God, and is close to national judgment. It involves a state of apostasy from the true faith, and is accompanied by an imminent judgment of God against that nation. That is why it is termed "the last days," because a nation is close to coming to an end.

The entire NT era is, as I often point out, a period of "great tribulation" for the Jewish People. In Jesus time, Israel was coming to an end. It was the "last days" for Israel in the present era. They were engaged in the worst kind of apostasy--the rejection of their own Messiah, and the rejection of his eternal atonement for their sins. They were insistent in living in their own sin nature, independent of God, and covering it up with a facade of allegiance to the Law of Moses.

Their judgment would come about 40 years after Jesus was crucified by the Romans, in 70 AD. Clearly, those were the "last days" for Israel, even though there remains a future Hope for Israel, when Messiah returns.

So Israel came into a time of punishment called "the Great Tribulation." They were destroyed as a nation by the Romans, and sent into an age-long exile called the "Jewish Diaspora." Some like to identify the "Great Tribulation" as only 3.5 years at the end of the age, when Antichrist rules, persecutes the Church, and brings all kinds of calamities upon the earth from God.

But the truth is, the "Great Tribulation" began with Israel's "last days," when Israel fell into great apostasy and lawlessness, and came under an age-long period of judgment. During this same period, the Gospel message has been extended to non-Jewish nations, to enable them to learn the same lessons that Israel has learned, with the same results. Nations rise, become Christian, and then they backslide, sin, and come under judgment. Their "last days" ensue.

I hope this helps you understand why, biblically, the "last days" started back in the time of Israel's Roman judgment and continues until today? It isn't just the Rule of Antichrist, or an end-time period in which plagues are sent out into the earth. No, this is an age-long process in which nations hear the Gospel, respond, and then ultimately fall away, with few remaining to be faithful to the Lord.

The term "Last days" has to do with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and all of the events of wrath that precede it.

In order to understand what and when the "Great Tribulation" is we must go to Matt.24:15-22. Jesus said that GT begins when the abomination that causes desolation is set up in the holy place within the temple. In Daniel 9:27, he prophesies of that ruler, the antichrist, making a seven year covenant with Israel, where in the middle of that seven years, he causes the sacrifices and offerings to cease and sets up that abomination that causes the desolation, which is what Jesus was quoting from.

From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27 until the destruction of the temple, no seven year covenant was made and no abomination was set up in the holy place. Therefore, since these events being the word of God must take place, then they are still future events.

At some point after the church has been gathered, that antichrist which is represented by the first seal rider on the white horse, will establish his covenant with Israel allowing them to rebuild their temple and begin to offer sacrifices. In the middle of that seven years--3 1/2 years later--will stop the offerings and sacrifices and will set up that abomination in the holy place, which I believe is synonymous with the image that the false prophet has the inhabitants of the earth make, as described in Rev.13:14-15. Israel's fleeing described in Matt.24:15-22 is synonymous with the woman/Israel fleeing out into the wilderness as described in Rev.12:6, 14

The great tribulation will take place within the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period leading to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. During that time the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will also be taking place.

 

[GaryA]

Somebody show Ahwatukee the words 'last days' in Acts 2:17 and Hebrews 1:2 - both of which illustrate clearly that the first century was/is part of the 'last days'.

(He said recently that he has had me on ignore "for years" - so...)

 

[JaumeJ]

Thinking in terms of a thousand years is like a day when it has passed, a thousand years is like a day to our Father, think in terms of the figures provided by the Bible and you will need to consult the lunar calendar used until the Romans replaced it with a solar version for the church.

According to the lunar calendar which goes back to Adam , almost, we are coming to the close of the sixth millennium. After all counting in this manner there are only seven days of time. Jesus Yeshua came on the beginning of fourth day leaving the creation with two days remaining before the thousand years of peace, rest.

This understood, we are at the portal of the seventh millennium. Sabbath.

 

[iamsoandso]

Thinking in terms of a thousand years is like a day when it has passed, a thousand years is like a day to our Father, think in terms of the figures provided by the Bible and you will need to consult the lunar calendar used until the Romans replaced it with a solar version for the church.

According to the lunar calendar which goes back to Adam , almost, we are coming to the close of the sixth millennium. After all counting in this manner there are only seven days of time. Jesus Yeshua came on the beginning of fourth day leaving the creation with two days remaining before the thousand years of peace, rest.

This understood, we are at the portal of the seventh millennium. Sabbath.

Yes the toledot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledot the generations of the heavens and the earth https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/2-4.htm https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8435.htm

 

[Blade]

The term "Last days" has to do with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and all of the events of wrath that precede it.

In order to understand what and when the "Great Tribulation" is we must go to Matt.24:15-22. Jesus said that GT begins when the abomination that causes desolation is set up in the holy place within the temple. In Daniel 9:27, he prophesies of that ruler, the antichrist, making a seven year covenant with Israel, where in the middle of that seven years, he causes the sacrifices and offerings to cease and sets up that abomination that causes the desolation, which is what Jesus was quoting from.

From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27 until the destruction of the temple, no seven year covenant was made and no abomination was set up in the holy place. Therefore, since these events being the word of God must take place, then they are still future events.

At some point after the church has been gathered, that antichrist which is represented by the first seal rider on the white horse, will establish his covenant with Israel allowing them to rebuild their temple and begin to offer sacrifices. In the middle of that seven years--3 1/2 years later--will stop the offerings and sacrifices and will set up that abomination in the holy place, which I believe is synonymous with the image that the false prophet has the inhabitants of the earth make, as described in Rev.13:14-15. Israel's fleeing described in Matt.24:15-22 is synonymous with the woman/Israel fleeing out into the wilderness as described in Rev.12:6, 14

The great tribulation will take place within the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period leading to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. During that time the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will also be taking place.

Gonna have to agree.. something like Ahwatukee said. Great tribulation has not happened. Whats coming is worse then anything in history.. the Church is still here.. well we have all power all authority over the enemy.. kinda difficult for him to pop up and do lying wonders with us still here that have ALL power all authority over him. I will say I read as we all do all the things that must happen and for me it seemed as if 30-80 years left for some of these things yet.. look what happen in a moment COVID and how the world is using it. Now we here more variants are coming.. far worse then the one before.. almost time for someone to step up with all the answers lol

 

[ewq1938]

Gen_49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

Isa_2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Mic_4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

2Ti_3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Heb_1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

2Pe_3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

[GaryA]

Gonna have to agree.. something like Ahwatukee said. Great tribulation has not happened. Whats coming is worse then anything in history.. the Church is still here.. well we have all power all authority over the enemy.. kinda difficult for him to pop up and do lying wonders with us still here that have ALL power all authority over him. I will say I read as we all do all the things that must happen and for me it seemed as if 30-80 years left for some of these things yet.. look what happen in a moment COVID and how the world is using it. Now we here more variants are coming.. far worse then the one before.. almost time for someone to step up with all the answers lol

So - let me see if I have this straight - we have ALL power and authority over our enemy "the Antichrist" - who can do [absolutely] nothing if we are merely present on the earth - but/yet - we are completely helpless and powerless against a bunch of kooks who have managed to perpetrate COVID upon the whole world...

 

[p_rehbein]

Regarding the Title of this OP:

These are the "last days."

 

[randyk]

Gen_49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.

Isa_2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Mic_4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

2Ti_3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Heb_1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

2Pe_3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh_6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh_11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Yes, thanks for posting them. I looked all of them up last night. I also wrote my brother, who raised 2 issues that had him concerned with my views. We were discussing the meaning of "Last Days" and "Great Tribulation." Here is what I said to him:


Good points. These are two of the major sticking points I get when I share my view on the forums. The "Tribulation," if depicted as a "punishment," doesn't seem to fit the Church. And the "Tribulation" seems to fit a particularly terrible event, as opposed to a long exile.

I had the same issues, I'm sure. What prompted me to take the position I do now is simply Jesus' exact wording, that this is a severe tribulation and it is a Jewish punishment. So regardless of whether it is a punishment to the Church, it is in fact a punishment to the Jews. And even though the Tribulation is severe, the severity can be looked at not just as an isolated event, but also as the severity associated with the longest punishment in Israel's history, a severity associated with the danger of eternal abandonment by God.

What made this so difficult for me is that nobody seemed to share my view, and that's a red flag. Normally, I find a major stream in Christian history that carries a belief that I will embrace, because it is nonsensical to think God will establish a doctrine and nobody understand it or embrace it!

It's either that or what is believed can be viewed as of minor importance, and can be explained as being eclipsed by other more important agendas at different historical moments. In this case, I couldn't deny what Jesus said, and that is all important. So I figured that importance of the doctrine was likely eclipsed by other more important emphases in history until later. (I can explain this later. It has to do with the historical dominance of Amillennialism and with Premillennial Dispensationalism.)

Fact #1: Jesus called this a Jewish punishment.

Luke 21.22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people.

It may be that we have falsely applied this Tribulation to the Church in the same way that it is applied to the Jewish People. It may be that the Tribulation has one kind of application to the unbelieving Jews, and a different kind of application to believing Jews? (This period, after all, is still focused only on the Jewish People.)

Jesus said the unbelieving Jews would be punished with the destruction of their city, the destruction of their temple, and with exile. The believing Jews would suffer in the same way that Jeremiah suffered when Babylon defeated Jerusalem. He was not the object of God's wrath, but rather, a victim of the sin of his society--a "martyr," as you will.

So, the "Tribulation" has a different effect on the believing Jews, as opposed to the unbelieving Jews. And yet they are all one people, suffering the destruction of their nation due to what the majority of the nation has done in rejecting Messiah. This would explain the difference between how unbelieving Jews and the Church should view this. One is a warning to repent to avoid judgment, and the other is warning to expect opposition to righteous living.

It is all Tribulation designed to afflict a society, whose majority has turned against God. As such, it may apply equally to Christian nations that backslide as to Israel, as it backslid in the time of Jesus. Although Jesus said this at a time when Israel still was the only chosen nation, Matthew, Mark, and Luke wrote the account for the Church, to learn from Jesus' message to Israel, which at the time had included both believing and unbelieving Jews.

As to the matter of the severity of the Tribulation, whether it was a limited episode or severe because of its long duration we have to look at more scattered facts, as well as fact #2.

Fact #2: Jesus said this Jewish Tribulation included the destruction of Jerusalem, the temple, a dispersion, and an age-long exile.

Since this Tribulation seems to encompass the entire NT age, the severity seems to have to due with the duration of Israel's exile, and the danger of extinction associated with it. Earlier exiles had been specifically counted for length of time, eg the 40 years in the Wilderness and the 70 years of Babylonian Captivity. Here, we have Jesus expressing this exile as *age-long.*

(Since this is Israel's final punishment in history, I call this exile the "Last Days." And it would mean that the "Last Days" incorporates both the time of Israel's fall and the entire age-long exile of Israel. Since these terms, "Last Days" and "Tribulation" were used by Jesus in the OT era, they had a particular emphasis on Israel's history. They apply to the Church by way of *example,* and not directly, in my view.)

Luke 21.24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Although Jerusalem seemed to stop being trampled in 1967, as indicated by Hal Lindsey, in reality Jerusalem is still divided and therefore "trampled." I think Jesus was referring to the end of the age as the date when Jerusalem's "trampling" will be ended.

So these are my reasons, and they are based strictly on what Jesus said. I realize that everybody bases their beliefs on what Jesus said! But nevertheless, without trying to coerce agreement from anybody, I'm just trying to satisfy my own conscience, regardless of whether anybody agrees, until God corrects me.

 

[randyk]

The term "Last days" has to do with the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and all of the events of wrath that precede it.

In order to understand what and when the "Great Tribulation" is we must go to Matt.24:15-22. Jesus said that GT begins when the abomination that causes desolation is set up in the holy place within the temple. In Daniel 9:27, he prophesies of that ruler, the antichrist, making a seven year covenant with Israel, where in the middle of that seven years, he causes the sacrifices and offerings to cease and sets up that abomination that causes the desolation, which is what Jesus was quoting from.

From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27 until the destruction of the temple, no seven year covenant was made and no abomination was set up in the holy place. Therefore, since these events being the word of God must take place, then they are still future events.

At some point after the church has been gathered, that antichrist which is represented by the first seal rider on the white horse, will establish his covenant with Israel allowing them to rebuild their temple and begin to offer sacrifices. In the middle of that seven years--3 1/2 years later--will stop the offerings and sacrifices and will set up that abomination in the holy place, which I believe is synonymous with the image that the false prophet has the inhabitants of the earth make, as described in Rev.13:14-15. Israel's fleeing described in Matt.24:15-22 is synonymous with the woman/Israel fleeing out into the wilderness as described in Rev.12:6, 14

The great tribulation will take place within the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period leading to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. During that time the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will also be taking place.

Please read post #11, where I explain my position in more detail. Where we disagree here is that the AoD refers to Antichrist--I see it referring to the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Discussing the 70th Week of Daniel and the 7 Seals of Revelation are peripheral to the focus I have here. We can discuss that elsewhere.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Please read post #11, where I explain my position in more detail. Where we disagree here is that the AoD refers to Antichrist--I see it referring to the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the temple. Discussing the 70th Week of Daniel and the 7 Seals of Revelation are peripheral to the focus I have here. We can discuss that elsewhere.

First of all, I never said that the AOD was the antichrist. Likewise, the AOD cannot be the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. And the reason why is that it is described as an object of idolatry, a detestable stench that goes up before God. Gabriel describes the AOD in the following manner:

"And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days.

The AOD is an object that is going to be set up in the holy place, which is the room just outside of the holy of holies.

These are events that are going to take place within the last seven years leading up the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and therefore cannot be events of 70 AD.

From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel in Matt.24:15 until the destruction of the temple, no seven year covenant was made and no abomination was set up. These are future events.

The seven seals will take place in chronological order, followed by the Trumpets and then the bowl judgments, which Jesus returning to the earth to end the age after the 7th bowl has been poured out.

 

[randyk]

First of all, I never said that the AOD was the antichrist. Likewise, the AOD cannot be the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. And the reason why is that it is described as an object of idolatry, a detestable stench that goes up before God. Gabriel describes the AOD in the following manner:

"And from the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation set up, there will be 1,290 days.

The AOD is an object that is going to be set up in the holy place, which is the room just outside of the holy of holies.

These are events that are going to take place within the last seven years leading up the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and therefore cannot be events of 70 AD.

From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel in Matt.24:15 until the destruction of the temple, no seven year covenant was made and no abomination was set up. These are future events.

The seven seals will take place in chronological order, followed by the Trumpets and then the bowl judgments, which Jesus returning to the earth to end the age after the 7th bowl has been poured out.

As I told you, the 70th Week of Daniel and details in Revelation, such as the 7 Seals, are of less interest to me here. And you are showing exactly what I meant to say, that you are connecting the AoD with the *history* of Antichrist. It isn't of concern to me whether you think the AoD is a thing or a person--my point was that I don't believe it has to do with Antichrist in any respect whatsoever, since I believe the AoD to be the Roman Army surrounding Jerusalem and ultimately destroying the city and the sanctuary. We read this in Dan 9.26-27.

Luke 21.20 correlates to Matt 24 and Mark 13, where the AoD is mentioned. If you look at the verses directly before and after mention of the AoD in both Matthew and Mark, and compare them with the verses before and after the surrounding of Jerusalem by the Romans in Luke 21, you can make a likely correlation between them. That's why I believe the AoD is the surrounding of Jerusalem by the Roman Army 66-70 AD.

Luke 21.17 Everyone will hate you because of me. 18 But not a hair of your head will perish. 19 Stand firm, and you will win life.
20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Matt 24.12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

Mark 13.12 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child. Children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 13 Everyone will hate you because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
14 “When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains."

1) Believers will be hated.
2) The AoD, or the surrounding of Jerusalem by Roman armies.
3) Believers flee to the mountains.