Neither James (the Lord’s brother), Barnabas, Timothy or Silvanus were counted among The Twelve...
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Matthias , et al were included within the twelve in Acts 6:1-6
"Now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food. So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables."
"Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch. And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them."
"Now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food. So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, “It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables."
"Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.” The statement found approval with the whole congregation; and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, Prochorus, Nicanor, Timon, Parmenas and Nicolas, a proselyte from Antioch. And these they brought before the apostles; and after praying, they laid their hands on them."
5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
9 For I am the least of the apostles,
I've been curious about rev 21:14 for a while. I believe the 12th name will be Paul. The reason has to do with the Great Commission.
In all the passages that mentions the GC, there were only the 11 present. And Paul was given the same commission. Acts 9:15.
And Paul saw the Lord. Not only that, he was taken up to the 3rd heaven and taught directly by the Lord.
And Paul became the most prolific apostle (evangelist) in history.
If Mathias has his name of one of the foundations, I will give refunds.
In all the passages that mentions the GC, there were only the 11 present. And Paul was given the same commission. Acts 9:15.
And Paul saw the Lord. Not only that, he was taken up to the 3rd heaven and taught directly by the Lord.
And Paul became the most prolific apostle (evangelist) in history.
If Mathias has his name of one of the foundations, I will give refunds.
This article is claiming Judas saw the Resurrected Christ and then commits suicide sometime afterwards: It's about Paul saying Christ saw the [12]:
1 Corinthians 15:3-5
"For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve......."
For many, this scripture has been a stumbling block since, according to tradition, Judas’ death happened before the crucifixion and therefore, if this tradition was right, then here the Word of God should have written "eleven" instead of "twelve". The purpose of this article is, among others, to throw light to this misunderstood, due to traditional beliefs, scripture.
The investigation below starts by confirming that the "twelve" of the above passage are the well known "twelve" that included Judas. After that, we continue with a detailed analysis of the gospel records that refer to the post-resurrection appearance of Jesus that happened at the evening of the "first day of the week". Though this appearance is not the appearance to the twelve, it is very important to examine it since, as we will see, Judas was there when it happened. Apart from this, the examination of this appearance is necessary for a good understanding of the gospel record of the appearance to the twelve. After that, the investigation will continue with the examination of the traditional view concerning the timing of Judas’ death and the passage of Matthew 27:3-5 that is used to support it. As we will see from our investigation Judas’s death did not happen at the time that tradition puts it. Instead Judas was alive and saw the resurrected Lord, only to commit suicide sometime after this.
1 Corinthians 15:3-5
"For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve......."
For many, this scripture has been a stumbling block since, according to tradition, Judas’ death happened before the crucifixion and therefore, if this tradition was right, then here the Word of God should have written "eleven" instead of "twelve". The purpose of this article is, among others, to throw light to this misunderstood, due to traditional beliefs, scripture.
The investigation below starts by confirming that the "twelve" of the above passage are the well known "twelve" that included Judas. After that, we continue with a detailed analysis of the gospel records that refer to the post-resurrection appearance of Jesus that happened at the evening of the "first day of the week". Though this appearance is not the appearance to the twelve, it is very important to examine it since, as we will see, Judas was there when it happened. Apart from this, the examination of this appearance is necessary for a good understanding of the gospel record of the appearance to the twelve. After that, the investigation will continue with the examination of the traditional view concerning the timing of Judas’ death and the passage of Matthew 27:3-5 that is used to support it. As we will see from our investigation Judas’s death did not happen at the time that tradition puts it. Instead Judas was alive and saw the resurrected Lord, only to commit suicide sometime after this.
Nor did I say any such thing Jesus simply instructed them to wait. It was actually a command
On one occasion, while He was eating with them, He gave them this command: "Do not leave
Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about."
Jesus simply instructed them to wait. It was actually a command On one occasion, while He was eating with them, He gave them this command: "Do not leave
Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about."
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I don't think that witnessing Jesus' ascension is a prerequisite to apostleship. I think they are only describing what their experience was being with Jesus.
Seeing the resurrection Jesus is a pre-requisite for apostleship as far as I can tell. It doesn't mean being in the tomb with Jesus at the moment He resurrected because no one is said to have been in there with Him. It means seeing Jesus post-resurrection. Paul saw Jesus post-resurrection on the road to Damascus, just before he was temporarily blinded, and Paul was ordained by Jesus. This satisfies the requirement for apostleship.
Seeing the resurrection Jesus is a pre-requisite for apostleship as far as I can tell. It doesn't mean being in the tomb with Jesus at the moment He resurrected because no one is said to have been in there with Him. It means seeing Jesus post-resurrection. Paul saw Jesus post-resurrection on the road to Damascus, just before he was temporarily blinded, and Paul was ordained by Jesus. This satisfies the requirement for apostleship.
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Well, yes, they were commanded to wait There was no instruction to cast lots to replace Judas...
There was no instruction to cast lots to replace Judas...
The Lord simply commanded them not to depart Jerusalem but "wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
After they chose Matthias they were baptized with the Holy Spirit. From then on, the record of Acts and of Paul contain "the twelve" which could mean nothing other than the twelve apostles who came out of the upper room. This fulfilled the scriptures Peter noted and their number functioned to confirm that the proclamation (that Jesus was, in fact, the Son of God) was legally binding and true by Jewish standards.
There is so much resistance to this because of doctrinal tradition and, perhaps, because of our bias toward celebrity. Sure Paul was important, but he was not one the the twelve. Unlike us, God is no respecter of persons. I also think there is a bit of "God works in mysterious ways" mentality that gets in the way of our understanding. So we are apt to accept church doctrine without searching it out for ourselves. God is actually our Father, not an author of confusion, and He tells us plainly in scripture what is true. Certainly, "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter and the glory of kings to search it out" but our diligent search comes with a promise: God's reward.
Good Night Friends,
Aaron56
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Here is the full quote:
21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
Paul did not meet the standard. He was not even converted yet.
A witness has to actually be a witness of the event he or she confirms. The Apostles of the Lamb could only testify, truthfully, if they had witnessed what Peter proclaimed. The other apostles, Paul, Timothy, Barnabas, Titus, Silvanus... did not have those requirements. Certainly, they must have had the apostolic gift but they were not witnesses of Jesus' ministry or ascension.
21 “Therefore, of these men who have accompanied us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John to that day when He was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection.”
Paul did not meet the standard. He was not even converted yet.
A witness has to actually be a witness of the event he or she confirms. The Apostles of the Lamb could only testify, truthfully, if they had witnessed what Peter proclaimed. The other apostles, Paul, Timothy, Barnabas, Titus, Silvanus... did not have those requirements. Certainly, they must have had the apostolic gift but they were not witnesses of Jesus' ministry or ascension.
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You can’t just grab that verse and apply it to that particular lot, not every verse speak to every other verse that just happens to sound the same, 😬 there still has to be context so your pretext isn’t your proof text, the fact remains that the decision to cast a lot without the option for God to chose neither of the two put forward remains.
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