Why do Christians believe in a place of torment called Hell?

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Mark47Oz

Active member
Jun 4, 2021
233
86
28
#61
Without scripture, is still very easy to explain why a belief in hell is valid. Near Death Experiences.

People have been, seen, and come back to tell the story.

You need to understand that God's universe is run on love. Love for Him. Love for one another, love for the creatures who roam this planet and love for the planet itself.

The absence of love in one or more of these areas leads to wars, extinction, death, poverty, famine, destruction and divine wrath among other things. It all starts with selfishness and disregard for our human bothers and sisters.

The afterlife is the place we are separated into those who cared, loved each other and our God and those who turned our backs on Him and each other. And hell is where the latter go.

The choice is yours. Do you choose the higher path of selfless love for God and creation, or do you seek to fulfill your own selfish desires at any cost?
 

Webers.Home

Well-known member
May 28, 2018
5,893
1,084
113
Oregon
#62
.
ATHEIST: There is no fiery afterlife.

RESPONSE: You have attested to a fact. Therefore the burden of proof is upon
you.

CHRISTIAN: There is too a fiery afterlife.

RESPONSE: You have attested to a fact. Therefore the burden of proof is upon
you.

AGNOSTIC: I neither affirm nor deny the existence of a fiery afterlife.

RESPONSE: You have not attested to a fact. Therefore you have nothing to
prove.

Now, the thing is: the Christian and the Atheist would be thrown out of
court because neither has the slightest empirical and/or scientific evidence
to substantiate their statements. One would likely refer to their holy book,
which of course is inadmissible. The other would likely refer to reason, logic,
and common sense; which are also inadmissible.

It disturbs me sometimes that I believe things that are illogical,
unreasonable, contrary to common sense, and impossible to prove true. And
on top of that; my religion's holy book tells me, in so many words, it is what it is.

"Your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men" (1Cor 2:5)
_
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#65
.
ATHEIST: There is no fiery afterlife.

RESPONSE: You have attested to a fact. Therefore the burden of proof is upon
you.

CHRISTIAN: There is too a fiery afterlife.

RESPONSE: You have attested to a fact. Therefore the burden of proof is upon
you.

AGNOSTIC: I neither affirm nor deny the existence of a fiery afterlife.

RESPONSE: You have not attested to a fact. Therefore you have nothing to
prove.

Now, the thing is: the Christian and the Atheist would be thrown out of
court because neither has the slightest empirical and/or scientific evidence
to substantiate their statements. One would likely refer to their holy book,
which of course is inadmissible. The other would likely refer to reason, logic,
and common sense; which are also inadmissible.


It disturbs me sometimes that I believe things that are illogical,
unreasonable, contrary to common sense, and impossible to prove true. And
on top of that; my religion's holy book tells me, in so many words, it is what it is.


"Your faith should not rest on the wisdom of men" (1Cor 2:5)
_
If someone is deemed mentally competent to stand a trial then their personal testimony is always admissable.

After examining the moral character and integrity of someone, it helps to determine if their testimony credible.

Therefore, someone with a good reputation who speaks with sincerity and conviction about the personal testimony they firmly hold is a highly persuasive, credible, and valid speaker.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,133
30,266
113
#66
If someone is deemed mentally competent to stand a trial then their personal testimony is always admissible.

After examining the moral character and integrity of someone, it helps to determine if their testimony credible.

Therefore, someone with a good reputation who speaks with sincerity and conviction about
the personal testimony they firmly hold is a highly persuasive, credible, and valid speaker.
Amen :) The gospels are eye witness testimonies, refuting any claim that we believe without evidence, though Scripture is not the only evidence we have for our belief in God and faith in what He has provided for us through the shed righteous blood of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. As has been mentioned numerous times (perhaps on this thread as well), we have a relationship with God, being reconciled by grace through faith. For me it took divine revelation/intervention in the form of powerful personal encounters to shake the grip my rebellion against God had on me, and shake me such encounters did, for I was forced to face the lack of substance in what I had believed up until then, and relinquish my refusal to fully surrender to the God Who repeatedly revealed Himself to me. I would therefore not say I believe things that are illogical, unreasonable, and/or contrary to common sense, for my faith makes perfect sense to me even if it seems illogical, unreasonable, and contrary to common sense to others. That it may be impossible to prove true does not concern me, for it is the Holy Spirit's job to convict and convince :D I simply stand firm on the Rock of Ages, and testify to the goodness and grace of God and the love He has shown me, believing His promises because I know them, and Him. to be true to His Word :)

 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,133
30,266
113
#68
English language and grammar are a bit of a challenge for some folk.
This is true. And it is also true that some, when they disagree for whatever reason, deliberately twist what has been said in an attempt to make the other look bad. Please note I am not saying that this is necessarily the case. However, ending the post by insinuating that you are a scientist contrasted against them being a believer does cause me to question their motivation/intent.
 
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
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#69
Without scripture, is still very easy to explain why a belief in hell is valid. Near Death Experiences.

People have been, seen, and come back to tell the story.

You need to understand that God's universe is run on love. Love for Him. Love for one another, love for the creatures who roam this planet and love for the planet itself.

The absence of love in one or more of these areas leads to wars, extinction, death, poverty, famine, destruction and divine wrath among other things. It all starts with selfishness and disregard for our human bothers and sisters.

The afterlife is the place we are separated into those who cared, loved each other and our God and those who turned our backs on Him and each other. And hell is where the latter go.

The choice is yours. Do you choose the higher path of selfless love for God and creation, or do you seek to fulfill your own selfish desires at any cost?
Actually, the only way you will enter the Kingdom of God is if you repent, accept the sacrifice Jesus made for your sin, and are born again.
 

I_am_Canadian

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2014
2,468
835
113
#70
I have always been close to God my entire life and the God I know does not plan to torment people who reject him for all eternity. I know what is taught and the scriptures that those who teach this use, can you tell me how a wonderful and loving God would torment forever. Putting something bad to sleep forever and out of its misery, like a dog with rabies, is merciful. Please explain without scripture (because I know the verses well) ...explain by your experience and relationship with God what he revealed to you about this. I don't understand, the God I know is not like this. I do believe there is a judgment and evil people who reject him will not have a good end, but not that way.
First of all the bible does talk about a place of hell fire and brimstone, a lake of fire, torment day and night for eternity, read your bible and you will find hell does exist for the wicked and those that die in their sins.

Gods not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance
That is why Jesus died on the cross his blood is the only thing that can wash away our sins, he had to pay for our sins so we could be forgiven.
 
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
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#71
I have always been close to God my entire life and the God I know does not plan to torment people who reject him for all eternity. I know what is taught and the scriptures that those who teach this use, can you tell me how a wonderful and loving God would torment forever. Putting something bad to sleep forever and out of its misery, like a dog with rabies, is merciful. Please explain without scripture (because I know the verses well) ...explain by your experience and relationship with God what he revealed to you about this. I don't understand, the God I know is not like this. I do believe there is a judgment and evil people who reject him will not have a good end, but not that way.
God is loving and is also just.
 

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#72
Actually, the only way you will enter the Kingdom of God is if you repent, accept the sacrifice Jesus made for your sin, and are born again.

You forgot the most important keyword BELIEVE in Him. John 3:16

For if you believe there is no need for proof or science or any sort of wisdom of this world which is merely foolishness to God.
 
Jul 28, 2021
1,226
406
83
#73
You forgot the most important keyword BELIEVE in Him. John 3:16

For if you believe there is no need for proof or science or any sort of wisdom of this world which is merely foolishness to God.
The belief part goes without saying as you must believe you are a sinner and believe Jesus died for your sin in order to repent and be born again.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#74
I have always been close to God my entire life and the God I know does not plan to torment people who reject him for all eternity. I know what is taught and the scriptures that those who teach this use, can you tell me how a wonderful and loving God would torment forever. Putting something bad to sleep forever and out of its misery, like a dog with rabies, is merciful. Please explain without scripture (because I know the verses well) ...explain by your experience and relationship with God what he revealed to you about this. I don't understand, the God I know is not like this. I do believe there is a judgment and evil people who reject him will not have a good end, but not that way.
Hello Sakla!

First of all, the word of God is where we get our information from. Therefore, we quote scripture. No matter how anyone wants to attempt to distort or circumvent, the teaching of everlasting fire is what the word of God teaches for those who die in their sins. All sin is against God and He has proclaimed the punishment.

And second, by your claim "the God I know is not like this" you are ignoring His word. You are only looking at Him as only a gracious and loving God, a cosmic teddy bear. However, He is also a God of justice, mercy and vengeance to His enemies. The time of grace and mercy will not be applied to those who die in their sins nor is it God's intention to do so. You've heard of that saying where the judge throws the book at someone, meaning that every infraction will be accounted for? Well, that is what God is going to do at the great white throne judgment. You and others can't just change or circumvent God's word just because you don't like what it says. Regarding your merciful and loving only God, consider the following:

"And a third angel followed them, calling out in a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. Day and night there is no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

The above is why we must seek God's word on every Biblical subject and not go by our own emotions. Notice that it states above that those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark will experience God's wrath undiluted, i.e. no mercy mixed in. And that they will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the angels and the Lamb/Jesus. And they will have no rest day or night, which would infer no intermission of said torment. God isn't looking to let those who sin against Him off easy, He's going to throw the book at them!

Understand then that after the death of the body, grace and mercy are off the table for those who die in their sins.
 
Mar 4, 2020
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#75
First of all the bible does talk about a place of hell fire and brimstone, a lake of fire, torment day and night for eternity, read your bible and you will find hell does exist for the wicked and those that die in their sins.
Which verse(s)?
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
5,439
3,218
113
#76
I have always been close to God my entire life and the God I know does not plan to torment people who reject him for all eternity. I know what is taught and the scriptures that those who teach this use, can you tell me how a wonderful and loving God would torment forever. Putting something bad to sleep forever and out of its misery, like a dog with rabies, is merciful. Please explain without scripture (because I know the verses well) ...explain by your experience and relationship with God what he revealed to you about this. I don't understand, the God I know is not like this. I do believe there is a judgment and evil people who reject him will not have a good end, but not that way.
The big issue is not sin. Lord Jesus paid the price for all the sin of all mankind. The problem is that all who are descended from Adam are born dead. God could, I suppose, waive the sin issue. What He will not do is make people alive automatically. Even to Israel, He said to them "choose life". The final end of death and hell and all of God's enemies is the lake of fire. I suggest that this is spiritual, not physical - our God is a consuming fire.

Is God unfair or unjust? Would you tolerate a dead body in your house for the rest of your life? Personally, I would not. What is unfair and unjust is that God punished Lord Jesus for the sins of the world. No one is entitled to be saved. God's love is such that He found a way to save those who would accept His way of doing things. After all, those who are saved have to live with God for eternity. There is no room for the proud and rebellious.

I do not pretend to know why some accept Christ while others do not. My brother (2 years younger) took me to a church meeting. At the time I despised what I knew of church. I went because I was curious. He seemed to be engrossed in the proceedings. A few years later, he lost his best friend to suicide. He never forgave God. He has suffered much, virtually all of it self inflicted. About the same time as he was thumbing his nose at God, I was convicted of my sin, I accepted Christ and I was born again. By that time we lived in different countries, so I knew little of his personal battles. Why did I get saved and my brother not? I don't know. I witnessed to my sister. She and her husband were saved about a year later. Why her and not my brother? I don't know. I trust in the unfailing love, mercy, grace, righteousness and holiness of my God.

The wickedness of man knows few bounds. People watched Lord Jesus heal the sick, raise the dead, feed thousands, give to the poor, do many miracles and that for 3-1/2 years. When He came back after the resurrection, He found nothing but doubt and unbelief, even with His disciples. It's not clear how many believers there were. He appeared to the disciples and to a meeting of 500. There were 120 in the Upper Room. It's not a lot considering His 3-1/2 years of ministry. Human nature is to love sin and hate God. It should not surprise anyone if a relative few get saved. It's a miracle that anyone is saved.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
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#77
Amen :) The gospels are eye witness testimonies, refuting any claim that we believe without evidence, though Scripture is not the only evidence we have for our belief in God and faith in what He has provided for us through the shed righteous blood of His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ. As has been mentioned numerous times (perhaps on this thread as well), we have a relationship with God, being reconciled by grace through faith. For me it took divine revelation/intervention in the form of powerful personal encounters to shake the grip my rebellion against God had on me, and shake me such encounters did, for I was forced to face the lack of substance in what I had believed up until then, and relinquish my refusal to fully surrender to the God Who repeatedly revealed Himself to me. I would therefore not say I believe things that are illogical, unreasonable, and/or contrary to common sense, for my faith makes perfect sense to me even if it seems illogical, unreasonable, and contrary to common sense to others. That it may be impossible to prove true does not concern me, for it is the Holy Spirit's job to convict and convince :D I simply stand firm on the Rock of Ages, and testify to the goodness and grace of God and the love He has shown me, believing His promises because I know them, and Him. to be true to His Word :)

Amen.

The Bible, our faith, and our testimonies are all evidences. Our faith, testimonies of divine encounters, confirm the Bible and give it more credibility. Our faith helps the blind to see that this isn't some sort of myth, but the truth of reality itself.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
11,159
2,376
113
#78
For your consideration: God is very clear that until this day of Judgment, we are all in the grave asleep or sheowl... Daniel 12:2 "and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt".

The is referring to the body only! The reference to them awaking, is referring to the resurrection of their bodies. We have other scriptures that demonstrate that at the time of death the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of the Lord. Once the church has been completed, the Lord will descend and will call up the dead and then those still alive will be transformed immortal and glorified and will be caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air.

Likewise, for those who die in their sins, their bodies are buried in the earth and their spirits depart down into Sheol/Hades where they begin the punishment in torment in flame, just as the rich man of Lazarus fame did and is still in torment. At the end of the thousand years, they unsaved dead throughout all of history will receive resurrected bodies, albeit mete for their eternal punishment.

When evil people die, they leave a memorial of there actions or everlasting contempt. It doesn't say everlasting torment. God will take these memories from us, We will forget them, but God will not. The idea of lethal injection I believe came from God, because he states in Matthew through Jesus , that both their body and soul will be destroyed. Daniel 12:2 is clear that all who have died, will be awakened AGAIN for the judgment. Isaiah 43:4 is clear that everything that is evil and this creation will roll up like a scroll, including the host of them that rejected him and they will dissolve and disappear forever.
This current heaven and earth will be rolled up like a scroll, not the unsaved.

That is Gehenna or the lake of fire, what we called Hell. It is a very fast action, with forever results...not forever torment. I'm sure they will see there actions and rejection of God and his gift of Jesus as they dissolve away into non existence.
On the contrary, scripture states they will exist forever in torment. What would be the point of giving them a resurrected body if God was just going to annihilate them? Consider the following:

"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

The word 'aionios' translated as 'eternal' is used for both the righteous and the wicked in the verse above. Therefore, the word has to mean the same for both groups. Since we know that eternal life is never ending existence in the kingdom of God, then eternal punishment would have to mean never ending existence in punishment, i.e. in never ending punishment in separation from God in the lake of fire.

Furthermore, the words that are translated as 'destroyed' (olethros, Apoleia, apollumi) none of them infer annihilation, but rather to be completely cut off, complete loss of well being, eternal ruination.

Whatever you interpret the word to mean, it has to mean the same for both groups.

When the little girl died, the people were crying and Jesus kindly rebuked them when he said in Matthew 9:24- "Go away, the girl isn't dead, she is sleeping." This lines up with Daniel 12:2, which states again, "many who sleep in the dust of the earth, awake." .
"But Jesus took her by the hand and called out, “Child, get up!” Her spirit returned, and at once she got up."

The fact that the scripture states that her spirit returned to her body, demonstrates that her body was asleep and her spirit would have had to be somewhere else. This is a good example of why it is important to read all related scriptures on any given Biblical subject.

Obviously, for the judgment. No one is in heaven yet and hades was for the demons, not us. We die or "sleep" as Jesus said
Wrong on both counts!

Hades is where the spirit of the rich man of Lazarus fame went. For it states that he died and "In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham from afar, with Lazarus by his side." The Abyss is where demons are located, not Hades. The Abyss is the same place where the beast currently resides and will be released from at the 5th trumpet. Hades is reserved for the unrighteous dead. And they are pouring in there 24/7.

Regarding Hades, Jesus also said, "And you Capernaum, do yo think that you will be lifted up to heaven? No, but you will be brought down to Hades," demonstrating that Hades is under the earth

Everyone who has died throughout all of history, their spirits are conscious and aware. For the spirits of the righteous in heaven, they are awaiting the resurrection from heaven side. While we who are looking for His imminent appearing are looking to be changed immortal and glorified and caught up to meet Him in the air.

My advise to you is, trust in the word of God and not your own feelings. To King David, God's word was a Lamp unto him. It should be the same for all who believe.
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
1,304
183
63
#79
I have always been close to God my entire life and the God I know does not plan to torment people who reject him for all eternity. I know what is taught and the scriptures that those who teach this use, can you tell me how a wonderful and loving God would torment forever. Putting something bad to sleep forever and out of its misery, like a dog with rabies, is merciful. Please explain without scripture (because I know the verses well) ...explain by your experience and relationship with God what he revealed to you about this. I don't understand, the God I know is not like this. I do believe there is a judgment and evil people who reject him will not have a good end, but not that way.

Then God's a Liar, OR you are the truth bearer. I trust God over you.

God created our Souls and they are everlasting beings. Some chose to separate themselves from God by rejecting His free gift of Salvation, thus they are separated from God forevermore, that is HELL. That is THEIR CHOICE. You dn;t seem to understand that Separation from God is hell.
 

BonnieClaire

Well-known member
Jul 1, 2021
385
403
63
#80
Weber did not say science had disproved the deity of Jesus Christ :rolleyes::oops::rolleyes:
Okay Magenta, perhaps you would be so gracious as to explain why Webers.Home felt the need to interrupt a conversion between Sakla and I with a completely irrelevant comment about scientific reason?

...and may the Lord richly bless you