How old is our creation really?

Rebelfortruth · Jul 26, 2021

In my opinion the Earth is as scientist has analyzed it, over 4.5 billion years old. Biblical minister have not equated in their assumptions of the creation _ one day to the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day - meaning God is Not subjected to timer. Is as gives leeway to one day is as a billion years, one day is as a million years, one day is as a zillion years. God subjected man men to the 24 hour day.
They did not add into their equations Satan walked in the Garden of God before his fall, and the war took place in heaven, and he and his angels were cast down to earth. Where is the Garden of God other than the Earth - the Earth is Eden. And God made a special Garden in the east of Eden and placed man there.
More importantly they did not calculate into the analysis of the age of the Earth before Adam sinned he was immortal. Adam was here hundreds of thousands if not millions of years (man's time) before he ate of the tree of knowledge. as it is written in Genesis 3:22 God put him out of the garden before he ate again of the Tree of Life and "live forever." The Tree of Life gave continual healing, it gave immortality, as it will once again as written in the Book of Revelation. As it is also written, by one man's sin death entered into the world and fell upon All men. They don't look at the fact that God told Adam the Day that he ate of the tree of knowledge he would surely die and Adam lived 930 years afterwards and no man has live to see a thousand years, equalling (one day).
Ministers mistakenly think Adam sinned just after he was created.
Time, which is death, started when Adam sinned and that was just over 6000 years ago.

cv5 · Jul 26, 2021

Rebelfortruth said:

No. God was marking time right from the beginning of creation......see Gen 1:14.
Age? Maximum 30,000 probably less. Definitely not 6000....minimum 10,000.
Read the geneologies properly....

www.biblemysteries.com/library/adam.htm

Scientific estimates (that depend upon "gravity") are totally useless. I mean absolutely totally worthless. They are utterly clueless. BTW......the electric plasma universe theory allows for a instantaneous solar system creation......where the sun lights up AFTER the planets are formed.

Gravity and magnetism are one and the same thing. The only difference is that magnetism is point source dielectric acceleration and gravity is nonpoint source dielectric acceleration.

You drank the Kool-Aid my friend you're going to have to go to Christian rehab for a long looooong time.

Rebelfortruth · Jul 26, 2021

cv5 said:

I have read the entire book of Genesis and the rest of the Bible throughout the years many times. And it does not say that the Earth is 6,000 years old 30,000 years old or how old the Earth is nor does it say how old Adam was before he sinned.
The chronological order Adams descendants starts after Adam sinned not before.
You have your opinion, your belief, your theology and I have mine and just as you can tell me I'm wrong I will tell you, you are wrong. and I am not one to tell anyone they're wrong - I just give my opinion but in your case.
And I don't need to go to anyone's interpretation of scripture.
That is why we have so many different denominations and denominations within denominations - because of difference in theology - no matter how small.
And I have did study in the scientific version of the origin of the universe. You have your opinion with science and I have mine.

In chronological order
1)Creation God said let there be light .... scientific theory the Big Bang singularity.
2) creation God formed the heavens and the Earth .... scientific Theory results of the Big Bang masses and gases forming
3) creation God called Earth to bring forth plants ... Scientific theory are the formation of the earth plants begin to form
4) creation God called the sea to bring forth living creatures scientific theory - life from space fell to Earth and begin to evolve and sea life was first
5) creation God called Belen to bring forth beast ... Scientific theory animals begin to live on and evolve on the land
6) God formed man from the dust of the earth and placed him, in a special made Garden in the East of Eden ... Scientific theory man evolved last.

Jesus is Lord God is my Savior my Redeemer - whether I believe the Earth is 4 billion years old there is no sin in it and I don't need to study someone else's interpretations of scripture.
In the Book of Revelations only two churches got a fairly good report. Scripture says the righteous scarcely makes it.
And I'll add you say it's been only 6 to 30 thousand years - where did the 30 come from? Churches teach the Earth is 6,000 years old. Seems you're drinking Kool-Aid too. Goodbye write what you want, I will not read or reply again.

mustaphadrink · Jul 28, 2021

Rebelfortruth said:

Do I presume you like telling fairy stories?

Nehemiah6 · Jul 28, 2021

Rebelfortruth said:

Carbon dating cannot go beyond about 6,000 years: "half the mass of carbon-14, an unstable isotope of carbon, will decay into nitrogen-14 over a period of 5,730 years." So that is where our focus should be.

Gideon300 · Jul 28, 2021

Fundamental said:

God did not start creation 6,000 years ago, if you subscribe to the pre-Adamic creation theory. The reality is that no one knows but God.

The Pre-Adamic or gap theory, supposes a time period between God creating heavens and earth and the time of the creation described in Genesis. It is just as possible to interpret "was" as "became" referring to the "formless and empty" state of the earth. The same word describes the state of Lot's wife. She did not start out a pillar of salt.

If the theory is correct, it explains a great deal, and makes more sense of geology. I believe that the reason waters covered the earth is because there was a universal flood prior to Noah. It was a consequence of Satan's fall. His name originally was Lucifer, which means light bearer. It seems that he was the light of the earth. He fell like lightning, and lost his high position.

Science claims that humanity has been on the earth 200,000 years or so. Yet organised society only began about 6,000 years ago - which matches the Genesis account of Adam and Eve. I read recently an interesting take on this. Humanity has achieved amazing advancement in just 6,000 years. This begs the question - what were men doing for the previous 194,000 years? How come so little progress in so much time?

It's informed conjecture at best, but I find it most interesting. The "gap theory" has been around for a very long time. Until Darwin started casting doubt on the Genesis account, it was a non-issue for most people. Satan has used it to darken the minds of many and turn them away from God.

Watchman Nee goes into great detail in "The Mystery of Creation". It's well worth reading. He also goes into the spiritual significance and typology of the Genesis account.

Gideon300 · Jul 28, 2021

https://crev.info/

Rebelfortruth said:

In my opinion the Earth is as scientist has analyzed it, over 4.5 billion years old. Biblical minister have not equated in their assumptions of the creation _ one day to the Lord is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as one day - meaning God is Not subjected to timer. Is as gives leeway to one day is as a billion years, one day is as a million years, one day is as a zillion years. God subjected man men to the 24 hour day.
They did not add into their equations Satan walked in the Garden of God before his fall, and the war took place in heaven, and he and his angels were cast down to earth. Where is the Garden of God other than the Earth - the Earth is Eden. And God made a special Garden in the east of Eden and placed man there.
More importantly they did not calculate into the analysis of the age of the Earth before Adam sinned he was immortal. Adam was here hundreds of thousands if not millions of years (man's time) before he ate of the tree of knowledge. as it is written in Genesis 3:22 God put him out of the garden before he ate again of the Tree of Life and "live forever." The Tree of Life gave continual healing, it gave immortality, as it will once again as written in the Book of Revelation. As it is also written, by one man's sin death entered into the world and fell upon All men. They don't look at the fact that God told Adam the Day that he ate of the tree of knowledge he would surely die and Adam lived 930 years afterwards and no man has live to see a thousand years, equalling (one day).
Ministers mistakenly think Adam sinned just after he was created.
Time, which is death, started when Adam sinned and that was just over 6000 years ago.

There are very many reasons why the earth cannot be that old. Rather than bumble my way through what I remember of my studies, there are many web sites devoted to the subject. A link to one that I refer to often follows. I can point you to others if you are interested.

https://crev.info/

Jocund · Jul 28, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

The time it takes for half of C14 to decay into N14 is about 5730 years. That's a halflife, meaning that after 11460 years, 25% of the original content remains. Every 5730 years the content gets halved. 100%, 50%, 25%, 12.5%, 6.25%, 3.125%, 1.5625%, etc. The effectiveness of carbon dating isn't limited due to the length of its halflife.

The potential error in the method isn't the halflife, but that carbon dating assumes the natural production of C14 in the upper atmosphere and other sources has been constant.

Events like nuclear weapons testing have skewed the modern levels of C14 relative to stable C12. There have been discoveries of naturally occurring nuclear reactors which would also change that assumed ratio in nature.

Omegatime · Jul 28, 2021

I have spent considerable time adding up the years from Adam and it is easy for the most part and have come up with a little less than 6000 years. I also would like to mention one of the greatest errors is the 430 years the Masorectic scriptures say Israel were in Egypt, the Septuagint says 430 yeas in Cannan and Egypt. And time keeping on our calendar should have started at the Lord's death not at his birth. A covenant or a man's will begins at the death of someone.

cv5 · Jul 28, 2021

Gideon300 said:

6000 years itself is an error that comes with the Masoretic text. The Alexandrian LXX correctly adds something like 1800 years or so.

www.barrysetterfield.org/Septuagint_History.html

Another thing very very few people understand is the correct formula for counting the geneologies/chronologies. The creation of Adam goes way back to about 10,000 BC.
The Bible clearly states FOUR generations from entry to Egypt and the Exodus. And that is the correct formula!

www.biblemysteries.com/library/adam.htm

Furthermore I have read some very compelling commentaries that there are very likely gaps in the genesis genealogies. Creation could go back to 20-30,000 years. But not much more than that.

Catastrophism is the way the world actually works. ALL geology and life can easily squeeze into
15-20,000 years. For example icecaps can be built in two hundred years in the right conditions (hot oceans and axial tilt). All of the massive mountain ranges are post flood and could easily be built in literally a matter of days and weeks (they literally slid and piled up instantaneously).

The supposed Geologic column of fossils can easily be explained by fossil sorting in and many other good reasons such as large animals fleeing to higher ground.

Also check out "Is Genesis History" on YouTube. Absolutely superb scientific analysis on the geology of the flood. Their commentators are unquestionably correct in their assertions.

This billions of years theory is absolute BUNK. The electric/plasma universe theory allows for a near instantaneous creation. And rest assured that electric/plasma universe theory is undeniably correct.

Omegatime · Jul 28, 2021

We will have to agree to disagree on the time from creation. I am firm on the 6000 year number. Yes you are correct four generations in Egypt. But two went in and one came out. levi was longest living at 137 years. We can elimate the first generation by saying the 2nd generation were all newborns and the fourth generation spent 40 years outside Egypt. So it was impossible for Israel to be in Egypt for 430 years
Now the jews use the same text we do but they dont believe they were in Egypt for 430 years. Most say 215 in Cannan and 215 in Egypt. I believe they are counting time from the offering of the pieces by Abraham when he was 75 years old. I say 315 years in Egypt and 115 years in Cannan. IMO Many miss out on prophecies in NT

cv5 · Jul 28, 2021

Omegatime said:

No. The 430 years is a hard number. READ THE LINKS! It explains everything. The SUM of the four generations equals precisely 430 years. You can't do better than that. Bull's-eye.

Don't make the mistake of the liberal rabbis who specified a "short sojourn". They simply didn't get it.....and rabbi Akiba changed the text to suit that principle.

cv5 · Jul 28, 2021

Omegatime said:

"So it was impossible for Israel to be in Egypt for 430 years"

Levi 77 years in Egypt
Kohath 133 years in Egypt
Amram 137 years in Egypt
Aaron 83 years in Egypt
==========================
430 years total time (FOUR GENERATIONS!)

"God gives additional evidence to support this reasoning. In Exodus 6 God gives genealogical information concerning some of the descendants of Jacob. The information given does not appear very meaningful to our present day and age, but hidden among these verses are three numbers. The first is found in verse 16 where it is stated that Levi's three sons were Gershon, Kohath, and Merari, and the years of Levi's life were 137. The second is in verse 18, where it says Kohath's four sons were Amram, Izhar, Hebron, and Uzziel, and the years of Kohath's life were 133. The third is in verse 20, where it says Amram was married to Jochebed, and she bore him Moses and Aaron, and the years of Amram's life were 137. At first reading, it appears that Levi was the great-grandfather, Kohath the grandfather, Amram the father, and Moses and Aaron the sons. But is this so? There is no other Biblical evidence that indicates this is the case, and there is no use anywhere in the Bible of the phrase "called his name" in reference to these men that would point to an immediate father-son relationship. Why would God give the life spans of only three individuals among so many?

To solve this puzzle, let us assume that God is giving us the calendar for the Israelitish sojourn in Egypt. One might recall that Jacob came to Egypt with his sons including Levi, and that the Israelites went out of Egypt under the leadership of Moses and Aaron. Both Levi and Aaron are mentioned in Exodus 6 and the age of Aaron at the time of Israel's departure from Egypt is given as 83 (Exodus 7:7). It can be shown from the Biblical references that when Levi entered Egypt he was 60 to 63 years of age, with the burden of the evidence pointing to 60 years.5 Since he died at the age of 137, he lived 77 years in Egypt. If this is a calendar giving the names of the reference patriarchs or generations, we would expect that Kohath was a descendant of Levi and was born the year of Levi's death; and that Amram was a descendant of Kohath, and that he was born the year of Kohath's death. Aaron in turn was born the year of Amram's death, and was descended from Amram."

The sojourn lasted PRECISELY 430 years according to infallible SCRIPTURE. Not guesswork.

cv5 · Jul 28, 2021

Gal 3:17
And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God

Ex 12:40
Now the sojourn of the children of Israel who lived in Egypt was four hundred and thirty years.

Ex 12:41
And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years—on that very same day—it came to pass that all the armies of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.

Also...if you truly understand Acts 13.....it lays out a complete timeline and fills in ALL gaps. It solves the out of fellowship years not accounted for in 1Ki 6:1 (480 years is idealized and missing the "out of fellowship years").

https://barrysetterfield.org/Egypt_and_Exodus.html

"much is made of the fact that 1Kings 6:1 gives us accurate information. There is an unfortunate aspect to this. That time-listing actually drops over 100 years (113 years IMO!) from the record of Israelite history in the time of the Judges when Israel was under the control of foreign kings and out of fellowship with God. The early church recognised this and it is actually hinted at in Stephen's speech to the Sanhedrin in Acts 7. This passage has posed a problem for those who ignore what has been called the "Omission Principle" whereby years out of fellowship with God are omitted from the record. When these things are factored in, a much earlier date for the exodus is obtained.

Fourth, the date which results from the study in the URL gives a date for the entry into Canaan under Joshua which disagrees with most of the archaeological data. As a result, many Christian archaeologists try to find "problems" with the archaeology that has been done by "unbelievers".

Fifth, the use of Jubilee cycles has been shown to be notoriously unreliable. The Talmud and its suggestions for these cycles was written after the Babylonian captivity and they were making guesses based on tradition.

Finally, Josephus actually gives us information about the Exodus as does Artapanus, the Egyptian historian. The story is actually amazing. Moses had been the Commander in charge of the Egyptian military, and had led an expedition south and extended Egypt's territory 200 miles into Nubia. This was a unique event, and the troops sought to make him pharaoh instead of Khaneferre (Sobekhotep IV) who had married Merris (the daughter of Pharaoh Palmonothes who rescued him from the river).
For this reason, Khaneferre sought an excuse to get rid of Moses, so that when Moses killed the Egyptian, Pharaoh had an excuse, and Moses went into exile.

The Exodus was then in the reign of Dudimose II (Djedneferre), and what followed immediately was the 2nd Intermediate Period in Egyptian history when the Asian Hyksos marched into Egypt and took the country "without a single battle" as Manetho records. The escaping Israelites also met these "Hyksos", and the Bible calls them the Amalekites. The date of the Exodus then becomes 1603 BC from all these considersations, not 1440 BC or thereabouts as these other authors suggest. Furthermore, we have the history of Egypt to agree with that since the Ipuwer Papyrus tells of the 10 plagues suffered by Egypr just before the Hyksos came in."

Omegatime · Jul 28, 2021

The promise to Abraham. Galations 3;15 To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man’s will,[b] or adds to it, once it has been ratified. 16 Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many; but, referring to one, “And to your offspring,” which is Christ. 17 This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18 For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

Rebelfortruth · Jul 28, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/how-do-we-know-earth-46-billion-years-old-180951483/
🎥 How Do We Know the Earth Is 4.6 Billion Years Old? | Smart News ...
https://www.nationalgeographic.org/article/how-did-scientists-calculate-age-earth/
How Did Scientists Calculate the Age of Earth? | National Geographic ...

https://whatisnuclear.com/geology.html
Measuring the Age of the Earth - Learn about nuclear energy

oyster67 · Jul 28, 2021

Fundamental said:

Easy-peesy, my silly brother!

. We are, even now, living in eternity past.

Eternity future still lies ahead.

Fundamental said:

Maybe you should stand fast on the Word of God, which says that the Universe is the age of Human life plus several day-night cycles, which still turns out to be about 6,000 years.

oyster67 · Jul 28, 2021

Rebelfortruth said:

And learn about the fact that Jesus created a mature Heaven and Earth 6,000 years ago. God can create decayed Phartonium just as easily as He can create brand-spanking new Phartonium. He can also create dry dino-bones in the ground for a sign of things to come (not just things that were past).

Rebelfortruth · Jul 28, 2021

oyster67 said:

Show me where the Word of God says that the age of the universe is the age of human life - which still turns out to be about six thousand years. Know where in the Bible is the age of the universe mentioned nor the age of mankind it is men misinterpretation of time that has calculated six thousand years.

Dino246 · Jul 28, 2021

Rebelfortruth said:

You made an error which undermines your argument: you injected the word "again" into the text. It isn't there. Nothing in the text suggests that Adam ate of the tree of life prior to eating of the tree of knowledge.

You also ignored the clear text that states Adam's age. Time does not equal death; again, your argument is deeply flawed.

How old is our creation really?

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