Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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You tell me if such statements as those by AandW are patently absurd or not. Easy decision.
I just showed Revelation 16:15 where God protects those from His Wrath and your Verses do not show pre-trib rapture!
The ENTIRE 16th chapter shows God's WRATH upon Earth during Tribulation.
Then we get to Verse 15 that shows Believers had obviously went through that period protected by God.
None of your Verses come out and say pre-trib rapture like Verse 15 shows going through God's Wrath and surviving!
Then we get to Verse 15 that shows Believers had obviously went through that period protected by God.
None of your Verses come out and say pre-trib rapture like Verse 15 shows going through God's Wrath and surviving!
That is not really what verse 15 says. Here are the exact words: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
What exactly does this mean? First of all it is a parenthetical statement. Secondly it is addressed to Christians to watch how they live and behave while they await His coming. But it has no reference to believers facing the wrath of God or being preserved from wrath (which is not even applicable to Christians).
When Christ says that He will "come as a thief" it means that His coming for His saints at the Rapture will be (1) unannounced and (2) unexpected. And that is what the Rapture is. It is imminent, and there are no signs before it occurs.
So please tell me if im understanding the tribulation and the rapture correctly. Befor the tribulation starts there will be a rapture, the dead who believed in christ will be raised up to meet jesus in the clouds, and the people who are alive and believe in christ they also will be raised up in the clouds to be with Jesus. there the believers will remain for seven years, whilst all the alive on earth who havent believed in christ will be tortured for seven years, and all the dead who havent believed in christ will be raised also and tortured for seven years on earth. then they will all be chucked in the lake of fire. ? have i got this right so far ?. at the end of the seven years there will be a new earth where all the believers get glorified new bodies ?
^ @de-emerald , We don't remain "in the clouds" (during the entire 7-yr Trib)...
The "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period (aka 7-yr Trib; per Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1) is when the following things take place (re: US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY), also:
--"...shall CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET *in quickness [noun]*" - Rom16:20 (note: 1Cor6:3[14] "know ye not that WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS?")
--Rev5:9 "has redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." (said by the "24 elders"... so note what they "do" / their role)
--much more, but this is enough for this post... for starters...
The "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" time period (aka 7-yr Trib; per Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1) is when the following things take place (re: US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY), also:
--"...shall CRUSH Satan UNDER YOUR FEET *in quickness [noun]*" - Rom16:20 (note: 1Cor6:3[14] "know ye not that WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS?")
--Rev5:9 "has redeemed US to God by thy blood out-of EVERY..." (said by the "24 elders"... so note what they "do" / their role)
--much more, but this is enough for this post... for starters...
Are you perhaps confusing "the dead [/unsaved]" who are only resurrected at the GWTj point in time (Rev20:11+), FOLLOWING the MK age (rather than, IN ORDER TO be raised to experience the [7]TRIB YRS, which years PRECEDE the MK age)??
I'll tell you plainly.
You are NOT understanding the "tribulation" (nor "rapture") CORRECTLY.
@Ahwatukee i would like you to anwser my post 871, as you seem pretty knowlegable on this subject, me personaly i have no idea. could you please just explain the rapture the tribulation, without mentioning any greek or hebrew to me and without quoting any scripture. Just explain it in a simple basic blunt explanation what happens to the believers who are alive and who are dead in the rapture, does the tribulation happen imeadiately after the rapture, what happens to none believers in the tribulation. , how long the tribulation is for. what happens after the tribulation. thanks would appreciate it.
Well for one thing you're missing a key point. In fact it is a critical point. ALL Christians will in fact be raptured before the start of the tribulation/70th week/DOTL.
There are those who WILL come to faith DURING the Tribulation due to the preaching efforts of the 144,000, Two Witnesses, and angelic messengers. And practically speaking probably other means as well. This specific peculiar group are known as Tribulation Saints. They are not Christians (the Bride)! But they will be redeemed out of the earth by faith and the blood of Christ, and they will be guests at the wedding feast.
Ok so that explains why the tribulation will last seven years. Does that also apply to the people who are a live ? or the dead or both as in died a physical death who didnt believe in christ. will they be raised from the grave and preached to. and will the alive who didnt believe in christ be preached to ?. so are you saying when the tribulation starts, everyone left on earth dead or a live will still be given a chance to be saved ?
Quite odd that people here are quite willing to tell us where wrong but not willing to explain, It a simple question, when the tribulation starts, and the only people left on earth are none believers, Will the dead be raised from the Grave and be preached to in order that they still might be saved.
Now in my estimation there will be billions of dead people who never herd of christ from thousand of years ago.
And billions of people who where miss led.
Then theres the billions of people who herd of christ and didnt know what to believe.
Then there will be the billions of people, who will be alive at the time of tribulation left on earth who herd of christ but where of diffrent faith. Then theres the billions of people who got addicted to drugs. and then theres the billions of people who where possesed there whole life and didnt know.
We have to ask our selfs seeing is believing, everyones a doubting thomas who doesnt propally believe. doubting thomas was given a chance to believe.
Now in my estimation there will be billions of dead people who never herd of christ from thousand of years ago.
And billions of people who where miss led.
Then theres the billions of people who herd of christ and didnt know what to believe.
Then there will be the billions of people, who will be alive at the time of tribulation left on earth who herd of christ but where of diffrent faith. Then theres the billions of people who got addicted to drugs. and then theres the billions of people who where possesed there whole life and didnt know.
We have to ask our selfs seeing is believing, everyones a doubting thomas who doesnt propally believe. doubting thomas was given a chance to believe.
Listen if you dont want to answer an honest question then dont. im tired of people like you, i dont know why im ressponding to you, as your probaly going to chuck another ignorant stone. unless of course you want to change your mind and see my responce as an honest question. seeing as your so devine and all that.
... make something else up, why don't ya...
Since it is important to understand this Verse completely, let's use the [OLDEST] known Greek Translation to which ALL New Testaments should follow.
From the Codex Sinaiticus:
Revelation 16:15
15 Behold, I come as a thief: blessed is he that watches, and keeps his garments, that he may not walk naked, and that men may not see his nakedness.
Nowhere can this Verse be described as a scene from Heaven.
And since it follows the Order of God's WRATH upon the Earth during the Tribulation, we know it is referring to Believers on Earth [who went through] the Tribulations since it's obvious Pre-Trib Rapture is pure BALONEY!
So we clearly understand that all throughout the Tribulation, Believers are to be looking for Christ's return and should be prepared because when He comes it will be like a Thief stealing the goods.
But more than anything, the ONLY people who would be looking for Christ's return during the Tribulation and the WRATH of God would be Believers in Christ [Christians]. So Verse 16 from the original Greek makes it even clearer Believers [will indeed] go through the Tribulation and the WRATH of God!