Jesus comes immediately AFTER the tribulation, there is no Left Behind Secret Rapture=Stop causing fear.
- Thread starter HatedForNoReason
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Postribbers are single word based out of context.Well, I would just suggest (and I can't tell coz I'm not reading your "RWP" text in the context of where it was given), to consider carefully that his quote is not saying specifically that "'such and such' IS THE CASE in 2Th2:2" [<--I don't read the writer to be saying that]; and rather that he may just be saying "sometimes, in some cases, it's 'such-and-such, while at other times, in other cases, it's 'thus-and-such [depending on the word in whatever context/verse it is used, and whether or not the sentence HAS AN 'OBJECT' [or, a 'DIRECT OBJECT']; to ascertain whether the verb is transitive [in just such a way], or INtransitive [which would be 'thus-and-such' other way]"... IOW, I don't hear the writer in your quote ('RWP') to be making a specific statement ABOUT the verb IN 2TH2:2 specifically, but rather is making a general GRAMMAR statement (re: this verb, wherever used... and depending on its context / where used)
That's how I'm seeing it.
Because 2Th2:2's verb "G1764" (under discussion) DOES have an "object" in this particular sentence. That's just regular ol' grammar, not requiring "expert" credentials... it's something any ordinary ol' fella can check out for himself.
They do it with " trumpet"
"Day"
" after"
" last trump"
But this new one , where "out of" become " in it" gets a chuckle out of me.
They need the bible changed.
Our Job is so easy.
Just show up with a bible and make them oppose it.
Most of the church has already died and are in heaven. Those alive are still on earth. Awaiting Jesus' Second Advent.
2 Thess 2:1 proves it.
amen to that.
They come with Jesus at the rapture.
Pretrib or right at the start of the trib.
Solid bible.
Thanks for reminding me
If you postribbers would look at the bride/wedding/ wife/ supper/ betrothal/groom/ grooms father/ brides chamber......and more, you would be amazed at your new insight.
It is the core of end times.
The heartbeat of heaven.
The last parting words of the bible.
.....and missing.....totally missing ....in your teachers.
You guys have been robbed.
It is the core of end times.
The heartbeat of heaven.
The last parting words of the bible.
.....and missing.....totally missing ....in your teachers.
You guys have been robbed.
The only one not corrupted in the KJV all modern Bible are corrupted. Sorry Mr Kettle<>Pot
I was being sarcastic. Pretrib beleivers twist the scriptures... it's not rocket science
Yes, at the Second Advent, as 2 Thess 2:1 clearly says.
Uh, no. 2 Thess 2:1 says the "gathering to Him" is WITH the Second Advent.
Yes, the Bible is extremely solid.
LOL.
btw, I have Henry Morris' commentary on Revelation, entitled "Revelation Record". He's very thorough, quite the scholar, and believes in a pretrib rapture.
However, as I was reviewing some of it today, he made a point that actually proves a post trib rapture and receiving immortal bodies!!
So I'd like to share this information with you. And whoever else reads this thread.
On page 203 at the bottom, he quotes Rev 11:12, concerning the Two Witnesses.
"Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on."
This is his commentary on v.12:
"But not only did the viewers see the spirits of the prophets return from God into their bodies. They also head a thunderous voice roar from heaven, speaking to the risen saints. Having finally died, (he believes the 2W are Enoch and Elijah, with good reason), Christ's two witnesses are now alive forevermore, like He is. Their service on earth is done, and they now can return to His presence."
The bolded phrase is the key. Morris sees their rising from the dead to be their resurrection where they receive their new immortal bodies. However, that would mean that Jesus would have had to keep those 2 in heaven while taking all the rest of the dead saints to a pretrib rapture.
But the pretrib rapture theory has ALL the dead believers in heaven coming with Jesus to receive their new resurrection bodies, all before the Trib.
Do you believe that the 2 W were kept back from the rest of the heavenly saints when they went to get their new bodies?
Now, if they did accompany all the dead saints to meet the living saints in the clouds before the trib, that would mean they already HAVE their new bodies BEFORE their ministry even begins. And that means they CANNOT DIE every again.
So, please explain how the beast who ascends from the bottomless pit would be able to kill a resurrection body.
You have 2 choices here. Either the 2W received their resurrection bodies pretrib, which means they CANNOT die again, or they get their new bodies, just the two of them, between the pretrib rapture theory, or when all the martyred trib saints get theirs at the end of the Trib, per Rev 20:4.
More accurately, if all the pretribbers would consider the 2W and how they would have gotten their resurrection bodies before their ministry YET were killed by the beast at the end of their ministry.
Now, that would be an amazing insight.
We bring no dead men of the early church.
Postribs have their center there.
Just read your teachers literature.
Neither enoch or elijah ever died.
Yes, at the Second Advent, as 2 Thess 2:1 clearly says.
Uh, no. 2 Thess 2:1 says the "gathering to Him" is WITH the Second Advent.
Yes, the Bible is extremely solid.
LOL.
btw, I have Henry Morris' commentary on Revelation, entitled "Revelation Record". He's very thorough, quite the scholar, and believes in a pretrib rapture.
However, as I was reviewing some of it today, he made a point that actually proves a post trib rapture and receiving immortal bodies!!
So I'd like to share this information with you. And whoever else reads this thread.
On page 203 at the bottom, he quotes Rev 11:12, concerning the Two Witnesses.
"Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on."
This is his commentary on v.12:
"But not only did the viewers see the spirits of the prophets return from God into their bodies. They also head a thunderous voice roar from heaven, speaking to the risen saints. Having finally died, (he believes the 2W are Enoch and Elijah, with good reason), Christ's two witnesses are now alive forevermore, like He is. Their service on earth is done, and they now can return to His presence."
The bolded phrase is the key. Morris sees their rising from the dead to be their resurrection where they receive their new immortal bodies. However, that would mean that Jesus would have had to keep those 2 in heaven while taking all the rest of the dead saints to a pretrib rapture.
But the pretrib rapture theory has ALL the dead believers in heaven coming with Jesus to receive their new resurrection bodies, all before the Trib.
Do you believe that the 2 W were kept back from the rest of the heavenly saints when they went to get their new bodies?
Now, if they did accompany all the dead saints to meet the living saints in the clouds before the trib, that would mean they already HAVE their new bodies BEFORE their ministry even begins. And that means they CANNOT DIE every again.
So, please explain how the beast who ascends from the bottomless pit would be able to kill a resurrection body.
You have 2 choices here. Either the 2W received their resurrection bodies pretrib, which means they CANNOT die again, or they get their new bodies, just the two of them, between the pretrib rapture theory, or when all the martyred trib saints get theirs at the end of the Trib, per Rev 20:4.
Back to the drawing board.
Know the bible.
No dead men needed to straighten out the bible.