Believing and Receiving the Holy Ghost

[SophieT]

I do understand that at times people will refuse to accept what others present from the word. But that doesn't hinder me from continuing to share it. Thankfully we are not tasked with making them believe one thing or another. According to Paul it is God who provides revelation. Our job is to continue to plant and at other times water the word that has already been planted in someone by another person.

Oh I agree.

Food for thought:
The word of God is alive. Once planted and watered like a natural seed it will bring forth fruit. We see this principle mentioned by Paul, "I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase."1 Cor 3:6

How a seed of truth is planted and watered, or by whom is not what's important. What is important is the Word of God has been implanted in a person’s soul. There can be no fruit without the planting and continual watering of a seed.

The Holy Ghost reveals truth to individuals by drawing the implanted word of God to the surface of one’s consciousness at appointed times.

I think it is important as to who plants. IMO, we have literally gangs of people who do not present the truth and the multitude of denoms attests to the fact that although there is just one truth, there are thousands of opinions. In principle, I agree with what you stated there

The Holy Ghost gives revelation or certainty of a truth by drawing one’s attention to scriptures that harmonize with one another. God’s truth will always be confirmed within His word. Erroneous ideas result from using isolated scriptures in an attempt to establish a particular truth.

It is important to remember that God's Word will never contradict itself. When scriptures seem to defy one another the problem is not the Word. The problem will always be found in an individual's personal interpretation.

Agreed. But I know that you believe a person MUST be baptized and I agree they should be, but if not, I do not believe they loose salvation or are not saved. so even there, we will see differences in the 'harmonization' people will do

The only way to be assured that a particular scripture pertains to a given subject is when the context of 2 or 3 other scriptures line up with the scripture in question. This principle is what confirms one's understanding is correct. (2 Cor 13:1) “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

agreed, with the caveat above.

 

[Wansvic]

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

Jesus then said to them go and wait to receive power from on High, Jesus did not say wait to be saved.
This is very much the same thing we see in the Old Testament when the Spirit of the Lord came upon Prophets, Judges, Kings, and priests. NOw Jesus is teaching in John14 and 15 what the Holy Spirit will do is 1. be in you and 2. come upon you to empower you to be a witness. We have a habit of limiting God as HE can't be in a person and not be upon them to do are all prophets? do all speak in tongues? can all who are saved? Yes, as long as the Holy Spirit comes upon the yielding person, or do you thing the Holy Spirit will just make you obey God? Force you to do it. No. That doesn't mean you are not saved it means you are not mature yet and God is working with you. Yet you are still saved.

To say receiving and being empowered by the Holy Ghost are distinct from one another is not in line with scripture. In all records depicting the actual spiritual rebirth experience people became empowered to witness when the Holy Ghost took up residence in their body. (Acts 2:1-4, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) As I have shown with scripture believing in the gospel message does not automatically cause the Holy Ghost to take up residence in an individual. (Acts 8:12-18, 19:1-6) Paul's experience indicates the Holy Ghost was received days after Paul's belief in Jesus as well. (Acts 9:17)

God’s truth will always be confirmed within His word. Erroneous ideas result from using isolated scriptures in an attempt to establish a particular truth. What occurred in John 20:22 was just that an isolated incident. Therefore it's purpose differed from what is clearly seen from other scriptures. Scholars indicate the record is one of a first fruits impartation that was later fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost.

It is important to remember that God's Word will never contradict itself. When scriptures seem to defy one another the problem is not the Word. The problem will always be found in an individual's personal interpretation.

The only way to be assured that a particular scripture pertains to a given subject is when the context of 2 or 3 other scriptures line up with the scripture in question. This principle is what confirms one's understanding is correct. (2 Cor 13:1) “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

 

[Wansvic]

This was the EXCEPTION and there was a good reason. However, believing is immediately followed by the gift of the Holy Spirit. And no one should be misleading others since this is clearly the case in Acts 2 and Acts 10.

I am not misleading. To mislead is to say one has the Holy Spirit the moment they believe in the gospel message. This is not backed up by scripture. The point I am making from scripture is that the experience of receiving the Holy Ghost is separate and distinct from one's belief in the message.

As mentioned in other posts God's truths will always be confirmed by 2-3 scriptures. For those interested please take the time to review the following:

Acts 2:1-4 (120 gathered) The people believed in Jesus well before receiving the Holy Ghost
Acts 8:12-18 Belief and water baptism days before receiving Holy Ghost
Acts 9:17-18 Paul believed days before receiving Holy Ghost afterward he was water baptized
Acts 10:44-48 Cornelius and others heard the message received the Holy Ghost and got water baptized afterward
Acts 19:1-6 People heard the message got water baptized and received the Holy Ghost afterward.

In conclusion, according to presented scriptures believing in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus does not automatically cause the Holy Ghost to take up residence in an individual.

 

[Wansvic]

from what I understand, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit upon salvation,

Post #5 may be of interest. It addresses this.

The Acts account of Paul's interaction with the Ephesian disciples outlines the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation that he presented to them. Their belief and obedience to the message resulted in their being filled with the Holy Spirit of promise referenced in Ephesians 1:13.

 

[CS1]

To say receiving and being empowered by the Holy Ghost are distinct from one another is not in line with scripture. In all records depicting the actual spiritual rebirth experience people became empowered to witness when the Holy Ghost took up residence in their body. (Acts 2:1-4, 8:12-18, 9:17-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6) As I have shown with scripture believing in the gospel message does not automatically cause the Holy Ghost to take up residence in an individual. (Acts 8:12-18, 19:1-6) Paul's experience indicates the Holy Ghost was received days after Paul's belief in Jesus as well. (Acts 9:17)

God’s truth will always be confirmed within His word. Erroneous ideas result from using isolated scriptures in an attempt to establish a particular truth. What occurred in John 20:22 was just that an isolated incident. Therefore it's purpose differed from what is clearly seen from other scriptures. Scholars indicate the record is one of a first fruits impartation that was later fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost.

It is important to remember that God's Word will never contradict itself. When scriptures seem to defy one another the problem is not the Word. The problem will always be found in an individual's personal interpretation.

The only way to be assured that a particular scripture pertains to a given subject is when the context of 2 or 3 other scriptures line up with the scripture in question. This principle is what confirms one's understanding is correct. (2 Cor 13:1) “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

I disagree

you can see from the working of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament how the Spirit of the Lord came upon the Prophets, kings, judges, and priests. Yet when the Holy Spirit did not come upon them did they stop being kings, prophets, and priests? No.

The Holy Spirit does far more than convict the world of sin as John chapters 14-15 says HE does. John20:22 is an isolated incident which after Jesus said to go and wait until you receive power from on high. What was that power for?

Jesus said " you shall receive power to be a witness " of ME". Not for salvation which I might add is not an isolated incident but the very word of Jesus before HE was taken up was You are saved, no, it was you all receive power for the ability to witness.

that isolated INCIDENT was the first time they saw the Resurrected Lord, and He Breathed on them " received the Holy Spirt".

That was not just some prophet speaking it was God saying to them, so why would this be one time mentioned event be dismissed as an isolated incident?

Did the Holy Spirit coming upon David to kill the giant needing to be done more than once or the bear or lion,

did the Spirit of the Lord Come upon Samson have to be only when he had a jaw bone of a donkey? How many times Does it take for Jesus to "breathe" on someone for it? God did confirm HIS word,

John chapter one Jesus is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirt as John said. John 20:22 Jesus resurrected came to His disciples and they received the Holy Spirt then told them to wait until they receive empowerment Acts 1:8. They did. the word of God we see the Holy Spirt not conforming to methodology, he saved and empowered, He saved then later empowered He spoke of what was coming after saving them then they were after empowered. Acts show us this. Jesus said that in John chapter 14 and 15
in you and upon in context to the Holy Spirt as it was in the Old Testament but now to all men and women AND JEWS AND GENTILES.

 

[SophieT]

Post #5 may be of interest. It addresses this.

The Acts account of Paul's interaction with the Ephesian disciples outlines the word of truth, the gospel of their salvation that he presented to them. Their belief and obedience to the message resulted in their being filled with the Holy Spirit of promise referenced in Ephesians 1:13.

yes I read that and 'liked' it

but I am not sure what you are addressing exactly when you say to read it?

 

[SophieT]

I am not misleading. To mislead is to say one has the Holy Spirit the moment they believe in the gospel message. This is not backed up by scripture. The point I am making from scripture is that the experience of receiving the Holy Ghost is separate and distinct from one's belief in the message.

I'm not following you on this one

Paul states (verses below) that we are 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit and says we are included in Christ when we hear the message of truth...and then believed it. Says nothing about empowerment or gifts

It seems to me there are 2 steps. I was saved at 5, I think I was about 14 when water baptized, but did not ask God to fill me with the Holy Spirit until the age of 18...I had never been taught about that, but when I heard, I followed up. I spoke in tongues right away and do have a couple of spiritual gifts. I was definitely saved up until that point.

So, are you saying we do not have the Holy Spirit when we first believe? Do I misunderstand you?

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1

 

[Wansvic]

I disagree

you can see from the working of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament how the Spirit of the Lord came upon the Prophets, kings, judges, and priests. Yet when the Holy Spirit did not come upon them did they stop being kings, prophets, and priests? No.

The Holy Spirit does far more than convict the world of sin as John chapters 14-15 says HE does. John20:22 is an isolated incident which after Jesus said to go and wait until you receive power from on high. What was that power for?

Jesus said " you shall receive power to be a witness " of ME". Not for salvation which I might add is not an isolated incident but the very word of Jesus before HE was taken up was You are saved, no, it was you all receive power for the ability to witness.

that isolated INCIDENT was the first time they saw the Resurrected Lord, and He Breathed on them " received the Holy Spirt".

That was not just some prophet speaking it was God saying to them, so why would this be one time mentioned event be dismissed as an isolated incident?

Did the Holy Spirit coming upon David to kill the giant needing to be done more than once or the bear or lion,

did the Spirit of the Lord Come upon Samson have to be only when he had a jaw bone of a donkey? How many times Does it take for Jesus to "breathe" on someone for it? God did confirm HIS word,

John chapter one Jesus is the Baptizer in the Holy Spirt as John said. John 20:22 Jesus resurrected came to His disciples and they received the Holy Spirt then told them to wait until they receive empowerment Acts 1:8. They did. the word of God we see the Holy Spirt not conforming to methodology, he saved and empowered, He saved then later empowered He spoke of what was coming after saving them then they were after empowered. Acts show us this. Jesus said that in John chapter 14 and 15
in you and upon in context to the Holy Spirt as it was in the Old Testament but now to all men and women AND JEWS AND GENTILES.

The NT mandate requires that all receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost in order to be reborn spiritually. (John 3:3-5)The indwelling Spirit is the empowerment.

Peter as well as Paul made it clear that the Holy Ghost was what people were receiving not a spiritual gift:

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 8:17
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2 & 6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 10:47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

 

[Wansvic]

I'm not following you on this one

Paul states (verses below) that we are 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit and says we are included in Christ when we hear the message of truth...and then believed it. Says nothing about empowerment or gifts

It seems to me there are 2 steps. I was saved at 5, I think I was about 14 when water baptized, but did not ask God to fill me with the Holy Spirit until the age of 18...I had never been taught about that, but when I heard, I followed up. I spoke in tongues right away and do have a couple of spiritual gifts. I was definitely saved up until that point.

So, are you saying we do not have the Holy Spirit when we first believe? Do I misunderstand you?

13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession-to the praise of his glory. Ephesians 1

After hearing the word of truth and believing it prompts obedience that results in one receiving the Holy Ghost. This truth is seen in the record of Paul's own experience. (Acts 9:17-18) Ananias told Paul that he must receive the Holy Ghost and get water baptized in connection to Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Paul believed in Jesus days before actually receiving the Holy Ghost; afterward he was water baptized.

Also notice the related scriptures below. The people were receiving God's gift of the Holy Ghost not spiritual gifts in the following scriptures:
Acts 2:1-4 (120 gathered) The people believed in Jesus well before receiving the Holy Ghost
Acts 8:12-18 Belief and water baptism days before receiving Holy Ghost
Acts 10:44-48 Cornelius and others heard the message received the Holy Ghost and got water baptized afterward
Acts 19:1-6 People heard the message got water baptized and received the Holy Ghost afterward.


After receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost imparts different gifts to individuals for ministry purposes.

1 Cor 12:1 & 4
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant...
4 Now there are diversities (different kinds) of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Cor 12:8-11
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

 

[Wansvic]

I think it is important as to who plants. IMO, we have literally gangs of people who do not present the truth and the multitude of denoms attests to the fact that although there is just one truth, there are thousands of opinions.

I agree with you. I should have stated what I meant more clearly. I meant point out/plant actual scripture references. Not one's opinion about them. The Holy Spirit leads people into all truth through the word.

Getting off for now. Will be happy to continue discussion later. God Bless!

 

[CS1]

The NT mandate requires that all receive the infilling of the Holy Ghost in order to be reborn spiritually. (John 3:3-5)The indwelling Spirit is the empowerment.

Peter as well as Paul made it clear that the Holy Ghost was what people were receiving not a spiritual gift:

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 8:17
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2 & 6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 10:47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Peter and Paul do not trump The Lord Jesus. Jesus breathed on them and said receive the Holy Spirit. This was the Resurrected Lord.
Jesus said the Holy Spirit will be In you and upon you and with you. John 14 & 15 chapters. Peter and Paul in no way said anything to change that truth. Salvation is a gift, the Gifts of the Holy Spirt are to the church as are the gifts of the Lord Listed in Eph 4: 6-8.

The empowering of the Holy Spirit is not to save it is for those who are already saved. This is also very clear in the Home of Cornelious in Acts and with the saints in Ehephus where Paul asked " Have you received the Holy Spirit Since you believed ( were saved) Also shown in Acts.

Peter said Believe and be baptized and you will receive the Gift of the Holy Spirt. That gift was salvation and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[SophieT]

After hearing the word of truth and believing it prompts obedience that results in one receiving the Holy Ghost. This truth is seen in the record of Paul's own experience. (Acts 9:17-18) Ananias told Paul that he must receive the Holy Ghost and get water baptized in connection to Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Paul believed in Jesus days before actually receiving the Holy Ghost; afterward he was water baptized.

Also notice the related scriptures below. The people were receiving God's gift of the Holy Ghost not spiritual gifts in the following scriptures:
Acts 2:1-4 (120 gathered) The people believed in Jesus well before receiving the Holy Ghost
Acts 8:12-18 Belief and water baptism days before receiving Holy Ghost
Acts 10:44-48 Cornelius and others heard the message received the Holy Ghost and got water baptized afterward
Acts 19:1-6 People heard the message got water baptized and received the Holy Ghost afterward.


After receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost imparts different gifts to individuals for ministry purposes.

1 Cor 12:1 & 4
Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant...
4 Now there are diversities (different kinds) of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1 Cor 12:8-11
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

I'm honestly not seeing just what you seem to be seeing in the above passages with regards to the book of Acts. it seems to me you might be splitting hairs?

I understand scripture as stating we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ. Full Stop. we should be water baptized; but what some call the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not the same as being sealed when we first believed. I wrote how things happened for me and if someone says I was not actually saved until 18? I would just have to marvel that they would think such a thing because I KNOW I was saved at 5 until 18 and until now. And again, we do read that baptism, or the norm, in the NT believers, does appear to be close to belief...but that is not always possible now and frankly I have yet to hear a church where that is taught...which does not make it right or wrong I'm thinking

When I decided to be baptized as a young teen ager, it was MY decision. No one talked me into it.

I already acknowledged the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I hope you are not saying a person is not really saved unless they speak in tongues or some such thing. I do not believe that is taught in scripture.

So, let me ask then. Is that what you believe? You can add all the scripture you like, but also answer yes or no please.

 

[Wansvic]

I'm honestly not seeing just what you seem to be seeing in the above passages with regards to the book of Acts. it seems to me you might be splitting hairs?

I understand scripture as stating we are sealed with the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ. Full Stop. we should be water baptized; but what some call the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not the same as being sealed when we first believed. I wrote how things happened for me and if someone says I was not actually saved until 18? I would just have to marvel that they would think such a thing because I KNOW I was saved at 5 until 18 and until now. And again, we do read that baptism, or the norm, in the NT believers, does appear to be close to belief...but that is not always possible now and frankly I have yet to hear a church where that is taught...which does not make it right or wrong I'm thinking

When I decided to be baptized as a young teen ager, it was MY decision. No one talked me into it.

I already acknowledged the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I hope you are not saying a person is not really saved unless they speak in tongues or some such thing. I do not believe that is taught in scripture.

So, let me ask then. Is that what you believe? You can add all the scripture you like, but also answer yes or no please.

The bible does state that a person must have the Spirit to be a child of God. (Rom. 8:9) I know that many believe there is no outward evidence that accompanies the infilling of the Holy Ghost. However, I am only aware of biblical records that directly or indirectly indicate that speaking in tongues flows from an individual when they are initially filled with the Spirit. I shared those in the previous post. Considering the scripture I am aware of I don't see one having been indwelt without there being outward evidence.

As I mentioned previously, I just share scripture. Each of us has to come to our own conclusions. We are all on a journey of learning.

 

[SophieT]

Considering the scripture I am aware of I don't see one having been indwelt without there being outward evidence.

a changed life is outward evidence. I became well aware of God and prayed and wanted to please Him as a child. Again, we are told we are sealed with the Holy Spirit...in other words, God agrees we are His through this sealing, if you will. Of course there should be outward evidence but the thing is, we are not new to belief as people were back when the accounts of that belief were witnessed and written about

we have myriads of denominations now and I am sure I don't have to tell you that some are quite anti speaking in tongues and or the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Pretty sure God knows about this

Frankly, God led me to understanding that the gifts are real and 'not for back then but not now' as so many sadly teach and believe

As I mentioned previously, I just share scripture. Each of us has to come to our own conclusions. We are all on a journey of learning.

again, churches have got in the way and while some may experience a 'book of Acts' conversion, pretty sure that is no longer the norm

I know what scripture states but I also know that even as you yourself say, we are all on a journey of learning. God deals with us as individuals. would you not agree?

 

[Nehemiah6]

I am not misleading. To mislead is to say one has the Holy Spirit the moment they believe in the gospel message. This is not backed up by scripture.

Why is it not backed up with Scripture? Have you not read Acts 2-4? If not read those chapters over and over again until you get it.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I'm honestly not seeing just what you seem to be seeing in the above passages with regards to the book of Acts. it seems to me you might be splitting hairs?

No he is not splitting hairs. He is promoting baptismal regeneration. Which is false doctrine.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

...the fact that the Holy Ghost is not automatically received when a person believes the gospel message.

Precious friend, how can one's "faith be counted for righteousness" IF he/she
DOES NOT "receive The Holy Ghost WHEN a person believes The Gospel Message?:

Under "The Gospel Of GRACE" Message, for Gentiles, Today, God Plainly Said:

Rom_3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ
unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

"the righteousness of God" is automatic upon belief, But, "The fact is that
The Holy Spirit, coming and Indwelling" said believer, "is NOT automatic."

Then, is their belief "dead And Non-existent," because:

5 chapters later, God, Through "the apostle to the Gentiles,"
Teaches us, In The Body Of CHRIST:

Rom_8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but In The Spirit, IF so be that The Spirit Of God
Dwell In you. Now IF any man have not The Spirit of CHRIST, he is none of His.

A person has "the righteousness of God" upon belief, But, "he is NONE Of His"?
Because, YOUR fact is "that The Holy Spirit, coming and Indwelling" said
believer, "is NOT automatic." Doesn't make sense, correct?

to be continued?...

 

[CS1]

The bible does state that a person must have the Spirit to be a child of God. (Rom. 8:9) I know that many believe there is no outward evidence that accompanies the infilling of the Holy Ghost. However, I am only aware of biblical records that directly or indirectly indicate that speaking in tongues flows from an individual when they are initially filled with the Spirit. I shared those in the previous post. Considering the scripture I am aware of I don't see one having been indwelt without there being outward evidence.

As I mentioned previously, I just share scripture. Each of us has to come to our own conclusions. We are all on a journey of learning.

The Bible doesn't state that a person must have the Holy Spirit to be a child of God? I don't want to misunderstand you but there is a difference in the infilling of the Holy Spirit on a believer over one who has the Holy Spirit in them to be saved.

Your opening comment I hope you can clarify because the bible most definitely tells us we must have the Holy Spirit to be a child of God.


John chapter 14 and 15 tell us
Eph 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Wansvic]

The Bible doesn't state that a person must have the Holy Spirit to be a child of God? I don't want to misunderstand you but there is a difference in the infilling of the Holy Spirit on a believer over one who has the Holy Spirit in them to be saved.

Your opening comment I hope you can clarify because the bible most definitely tells us we must have the Holy Spirit to be a child of God.


John chapter 14 and 15 tell us
Eph 1:13
In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

You thought you saw something different than what I wrote. My comment was: "The bible does state that a person must have the Spirit to be a child of God. (Rom. 8:9)" (Post #33)

I disagree with your belief that the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from one having the Holy Spirit in side of them. It is the same thing.

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 8:17
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2 & 6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 10:47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

 

[CS1]

You thought you saw something different than what I wrote. My comment was: "The bible does state that a person must have the Spirit to be a child of God. (Rom. 8:9)" (Post #33)

I disagree with your belief that the infilling of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from one having the Holy Spirit in side of them. It is the same thing.

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Acts 8:17
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 19:2 & 6
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed?
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 10:47
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

he why I see the Holy Spirit can be in a person and not empower them at the same time very simple: God is not limited to do then and later as we see in scripture as Paul in the book of Acts asked " have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed "?

in addition, the Gospel of John chapter one says that Jesus is the one who Baptizes with the Holy Spirit and Jesus said to His disciples you will receive power after the Holy Spirit comes upon them. Acts 1:8 The disciples were saved before the day of Pentecost they were not saved on that day they had the Holy Spirit in them just not upon them.

John 14 & 15 tells us the Holy Spirit will be in you and come upon you.

The Holy Spirt in us Rom 8:16 "The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"

Yet the Holy Spirit comes into person HE doesn't empower all for the same thing at the same time. The Five-Fold Ministry according to Eph 4 is a gift of Christ from the Holy Spirt yet not all have that gift do they? But all Christians have the Holy Spirit in them not all have the Holy Spirit come upon them. the coming upon is to empower not to save the person this is throughout the whole Bible both old and new.