Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[SophieT]

No one can snatch you from the Lord, but you can walk away on your own steam.

how does that work if no one is no one? it has been my experience that God does indeed come after you

how about that lost sheep parable?

I think you are just posting pat answers and not thinking things through

as I already stated, I used to be anti OSAS, but in order for me to veer away from that, I had study and think about things and not just post what I had been taught

there is no safety in repeating the same ole same ole like some kind of reflex action

 

[SophieT]

Yes, it is. Read Matthew 28:19-20.

please

you are not going to help yourself with this kind of answer

if you have a proper response to what I asked, then please share it

otherwise, it seems you are just dithering around and think respect is demanded rather than earned

Once we are saved, scripture is clear we must be observant to all that Jesus commands

you cannot, in the same breath, state we are to keep the commandments and then say salvation by grace/faith

for your information...salvation has ALWAYS been by offered grace and accepted faith. check out Abraham for that one

the other problematical item you seem to overlook, is that the Bible states plainly that the law is but a shadow of what was to come...that would be Jesus as the final sacrifice.

are you able to keep the commandments? if you say yes, then John says you are a liar because no one is without sin

 

[JerryInBoston]

how does that work if no one is no one? it has been my experience that God does indeed come after you

how about that lost sheep parable?

I think you are just posting pat answers and not thinking things through

as I already stated, I used to be anti OSAS, but in order for me to veer away from that, I had study and think about things and not just post what I had been taught

there is no safety in repeating the same ole same ole like some kind of reflex action

Dave Gass. Paul Maxwell. Joshua Harris.

They walked away, renounced their faith in Jesus. No one snatched them; they voluntarily left. Were they never Christ's? Is that what you're saying?

 

[BillG]

Do you believe someone can live an entire lifetime rejecting God, rejecting the gospel message, rejecting the gift of salvation, but on their deathbed come to faith and be saved in the moments before they die?

What does that have to do with the question I asked you?

Quote the post a I made responding to responding to the post you made.

Your response above has nothing to do with the discussion we have.

Your response above to me is talking about someone who never had faith in the first place.

But I will answer your question based on my assumption of the question you asked.
Yes deathbed confession of asking Jesus to forgive them of their sins will be saved.
Just like the thief on the cross was saved.

However I can't recall the thief on the cross asking for forgiveness.
He acknowledged that Jesus was dying for his sin

 

[JerryInBoston]

What does that have to do with the question I asked you?

Quote the post a I made responding to responding to the post you made.

Your response above has nothing to do with the discussion we have.

Your response above to me is talking about someone who never had faith in the first place.

But I will answer your question based on my assumption of the question you asked.
Yes deathbed confession of asking Jesus to forgive them of their sins will be saved.
Just like the thief on the cross was saved.

Yet professing Christian teachers and writers like Dave Gass, Joshua Harris, Paul Maxwell, who all claimed to be Christians for decades, preached, taught, evangelize, etc, and then renounced their faith in Christ, you claim were never in the Christian faith to begin with?

 

[BillG]

Yet professing Christian teachers and writers like Dave Gass, Joshua Harris, Paul Maxwell, who all claimed to be Christians for decades, preached, taught, evangelize, etc, and then renounced their faith in Christ, you claim were never in the Christian faith to begin with?

If Jesus promised that all the Father has given will not be lost what does that mean?

Surely he would have said
All you have given me is in fact not all because some I will lose.

Any chance you can answer other questions I have asked you as well please.

 

[SophieT]

Dave Gass. Paul Maxwell. Joshua Harris.

They walked away, renounced their faith in Jesus. No one snatched them; they voluntarily left. Were they never Christ's? Is that what you're saying?

I don't know those people. I do know me however AND Jesus

is it too hard to ask that you actually respond to what I wrote instead of attempting to draw people who are not posting here into it?

so how about that lost sheep parable? respond to what people write. that would should you are actually able to do so

I am certainly doing that

 

[SophieT]

so how about these verses that I previously posted? is God able or not able? how do we reconcile these verses with people 'leaving' God?

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. John 10: 27-29

For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8: 38-39

24 Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, 25 to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time[h] and now and forever. Amen. Jude 1

and there are others of course. I am quite familiar with Hebrews. here is one from Hebrews:

Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. Hebrews 7:25

some real answers, with thought behind them, would be appreciated

 

[BillG]

I don't know those people. I do know me however AND Jesus

is it too hard to ask that you actually respond to what I wrote instead of attempting to draw people who are not posting here into it?

so how about that lost sheep parable? respond to what people write. that would should you are actually able to do so

I am certainly doing that

https://churchleaders.com/news/3943...ul-maxwell-renounces-his-christian-faith.html

 

[SophieT]

https://churchleaders.com/news/3943...ul-maxwell-renounces-his-christian-faith.html

oh thanks. I am actually more familiar with him than I thought and the others mentioned as well, having read some of what they previously wrote and said they believed

I don't know what's going on there but they are not dead yet. who knows. the heart is a tricky thing. I have actually tried to not believe and I just can't. God IS and I have believed since the age of 5 when I first heard. it's a bit of a mystery to me.

are these people under severe spiritual attack and they gave up? anyone in leadership is a target and all these people are very well known

we do have Jesus saying basically that you cannot be lost and then we have these people. which is why I say that pat answers do not give anyone satisfying understanding. at least not honest or question asking people IMO

I have lost alot of respect for Christians quite honestly....through personal events and just your run of the mill hypocrisy you see every day. does not mean I am perfect or sinless or the best Christ follower ever...far far from it...but there is just this general blah Christianity around it seems, that is worse than baby forumula. Jesus does say in Revelation "I'll spit you out of my mouth"

just thinking out loud here...

 

[SophieT]

and we have this also: (same site you linked to) and I actually did read about that also

In 2019 after Josh Harris and Marty Simpson made the announcement they were no longer Christians, lead singer for Christian Rock band Skillet’s John Cooper asked, “What is happening in Christianity?”

Cooper said that he is shocked by how unashamed these leaders seem to be as they announce they are no longer Christians. He observed that essentially they are saying, “I’ve been living and preaching boldly something for 20 years and led generations of people with my teachings and now I no longer believe it…therefore I’m going to boldly and loudly tell people it was all wrong while I boldly and loudly lead people in to my next truth…Why be so eager to continue leading people when you clearly don’t know where you are headed?”

is there something to that question just above I highlighted? and something is happening in Christianity. it is getting harder IMO

if we are going to ask about those people leaving what they said they believed, then we can also examine all the immorality that has been revealed in well known people and personalities who say they are Christian and can preach and sin like crazy at the same time

I can reconcile some of that but not all of it

 

[SophieT]

Do you believe someone can live an entire lifetime rejecting God, rejecting the gospel message, rejecting the gift of salvation, but on their deathbed come to faith and be saved in the moments before they die?

for sure if it is genuine

that is the equivalent of you asking if God is actually able to save to the uttermost IMO

 

[JerryInBoston]

If Jesus promised that all the Father has given will not be lost what does that mean?

Surely he would have said
All you have given me is in fact not all because some I will lose.

Any chance you can answer other questions I have asked you as well please.

On the one hand you say a man can live his entire life running with the devil and be saved in the last moments of his life. On the other hand you say a man following Christ his entire life who renounces his faith in the last moments of his life was never saved.

Or are you saying that atonement is indeed limited, as John Calvin put it?

 

[SophieT]

On the one hand you say a man can live his entire life running with the devil and be saved in the last moments of his life. On the other hand you say a man following Christ his entire life who renounces his faith in the last moments of his life was never saved.

Or are you saying that atonement is indeed limited, as John Calvin put it?

John Calvin? really? oh that fits LOL!

are you suggesting rather than asking?

and will that be your next evasion maneuver so as to avoid answering questions?

 

[JerryInBoston]

John Calvin? really? oh that fits LOL!

are you suggesting rather than asking?

and will that be your next evasion maneuver so as to avoid answering questions?

Is atonement limited?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes thank God that we have the gift of eternal and all we have to do is say yes.

But one has to ask on what basis has this gift been given?

Then one has to ask on what basis will this gift be rescinded if we don't hold on to it.

Is eternal life based on faith?
What is this faith?

How does this relate to what Jesus said "All you have given me I will not lose any of them?

If that is true then has not God renaged on the promise that Jesus said?

And I would ask

What is eternal

we understand what life is, it s being made alive in christ

what what does the eternal aspect have

if it can end is it eternal? If it is temporary, is it eternal? If it is conditional, is it eternal

jesus said in john 3 and john 6 they will never perish, the will never die, they will live forever.

does eternal NOT mean eternal? Does NEVER not mean never, does FOREVER not mean forever?

its God who made this promise did God lie?

 

[Mark47Oz]

Yes, the true gospel as told by Jesus: "baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you." Matthew 28:19-20

So you do teach we are saved by works thank you

I do not believe a Christian can fall away and renounce their faith. John calls these people Antichrist. Because in renouncing their faith they deny Christ

John said they were never if us

I Am saddened you think God will give a person eternal life knowing in the end they will deny Christ. That’s sad

I'm just going to chime in on this one.

Remember when Jesus told Peter that he would deny him?

Peter was shocked and all like 'I would NEVER do that Lord'

And then he did.

Does that make Peter an Antichrist? Obviously not. He was the one whom Jesus said 'You are my rock' to and the one whom he said 'This is your mother' (in reference to Mary) from the cross.

So yes. Jesus himself experienced betrayal from his own apostles. Judas also sold him out for a few Silver coins. And then realising the gravity of what he'd just fine I took his own life. Peter in that other hand repented and went on to become one of great apostles in the Bible post resurrection.

And yes I agree with Jerry, you absolutely CAN lose your salvation. Being baptized is only the beginning of your walk. If you follow Christ and the law of love in the Bible you'll be saved as is the promise. But nowhere in there does it say that you can't lose your salvation. In fact Paul went around telling the early churches there were Jesusing wrong and some of them would not inherit God's kingdom.

One thing God is revealing to me at the moment is an why sin is bad. It's not solely because we're breaking rules. It's because we are violating the laws of true love. And when you are not acting in love it has ripple effects that send shockwaves through humanity and time itself. One little thoughtless indiscretion can affect so many people and set into motion chains of events that cause a soul to become lost.

I truly wish I could show you the vision God has given me. If you saw it you'd never want to sin again and you'd become the most loving person on this earth it's that awful.

There is a reason why Jesus said 'Love thy neighbour' is the greatest commandment of them all. It's because if you do this above all else you'll be walking in love and spreading God's light.

So strict rule following without love achieves nothing. Loving your neighbours and forgiving achieves everything.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No doubt some will come to faith and never depart. However, many will and do depart and return to the darkside and give up the gift; Christian pastors do it, Christian musicians do it, run-of-the-mill Christians like yourself do it all the time, for "wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby." Matthew 7:13

many will CLAIM to have faith

that does not mean they are saved

once again, our life is eternal not conditional

he who began a good work will complete it, why do you lack faith?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jesus doesn't lose any, but some will walk away on their own steam for their o

then he lost some

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dave Gass. Paul Maxwell. Joshua Harris.

They walked away, renounced their faith in Jesus. No one snatched them; they voluntarily left. Were they never Christ's? Is that what you're saying?

John said they were never of us

do we listen to John or Jerry?