Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

[AandW]

ooooooooooooooh, is this a Preterist for/against discussion?


Are there any Ken Gentry Disciples here?

You know, claiming 70 A.D. fulfilled the events of Prophecy and we've been in the Mill Reign since then?


Cracks me up to think some believe Satan has been bound since 70 A.D., and then we jump ship to the first Century into the fourth Century under the debacle and abomination guised as the RCC, and all that [Evil] ammassed while Satan was bound during Christ's Reign.

 

[glen55]

I beg to differ with you glenn55! We know from a historical and Biblical accon scripplace that present male and females as allegories yhat does explain how you get your name changed by waking ups, that the prophecy of the seven 'sevens' (49 years) was fulfilled

Thats ok to disagree

We also know that the Anointed One was cut off (Christ crucified) at the end of the sixty two sevens for a total of 483 years.

I Have seen a lot of numbers that add to 9 meaning conscience from the right side they could catch fish now, 7 has a meaning as does 8 and many others that mean grace and other symbols

I'm bettin' that the last seven years will be fulfilled literally as well.

For the invisible, that is not seen by the first adam

I also beg to differ with you in that, the kingdom of God will come with observation:

Not to flesh and blood that is taking place in man not awake yet, and likely still in first covenant of judgment, Galatians hints alot with allegory that has male and females, jew and greeks......but not in Christ in them that woke up by spirit, even the greatest birth of a womb is least and not awake yet past the observation nature of mind

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

The Temple in revelation isn't outside, inside where spirit cleans up our flesh and blood fear and judgements against us that was a test, GOD IN US CAN DO ANYTHING, SATAN IS DOUBT FROM DAULISTIC CREATINED BY FEAR.

You have to understand what Jesus meant when He said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation."
What He did mean is that the kingdom of God was among them, meaning himself. Regarding this He said:

"But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Thats inside where flesh and blood birthed by wombs can't see the spiritual told by a story, when woke up then death is defeted by Christ awake in adam,

Jesus was in their midst and He was the way to the kingdom of God which will come with observation as well.

[QUOTE5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 6But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. NOT MIDST NOT EVEN OF LUKE 17:20-21][/QUOTE]

 

[OldSage]

Name any other time-prophecy that is WORDED LIKE "[from _____ unto _____] shall be SEVEN WEEKS [/SEVENS], *and* SIXTY-TWO WEEKS [/SEVENS]"... (though having NO gap of time here, at this point in the wording / timing).

Right off the bat one should notice this is no ordinary time-prophecy, but that there is something UNIQUE about it (that one should take note of).




[btw, the "490 years" total [i.e. "70 Weeks [/Sevens]"] will indeed be "fulfilled" exactly as measured--there are only "490 years" here, see... just not all in the same solid chunk of time, due to the SEQUENTIAL nature of this prophecy, as written... vv.24-27 written SEQUENTIALLY]

The most important thing to know is that this is a Messianic Prophecy - I would say the greatest Messianic Prophecy.
(Apparently the Rabbis try to shield Jews from Daniel - go figure)

It would seem that a large portion of professing Christians, since they believe the prophecy has not been fulfilled,
then also deny that Christ has come.

Of course they will say:
"No - he came in the 69th week"

But the prophecy tell us that 70 weeks are required in this Messianic Prophecy, not 69 weeks.

Sad really

 

[Pilgrimshope]

One of the key prophecies in the Bible is that of the 70 "weeks" in the book of Daniel. There are certain denominations and/or individuals who teach that the 70 weeks of Daniel (as prophesied by Gabriel) have already been fulfilled. But even a cursory reading of Daniel 9:24 will show that that is impossible. Here is what is stated in the King James Bible:

Seventy weeks are determined
[A] upon thy people (the Jews) and
upon thy holy city (Jerusalem):
[1] to finish the transgression, and
[2] to make an end of sins, and
[3] to make reconciliation for iniquity, and
[4] to bring in everlasting righteousness, and
[5] to seal up the vision and prophecy, and
[6] to anoint the most Holy.

The first question we must ask is this: "Has everlasting righteousness been established in (a) Jerusalem, (b) Israel, and (c) the whole world?" and the resounding answer is "NO!" That should settle the matter right there.

It is generally accepted that the word "weeks" represents "sevens" or "heptads" and in this context it means 70 x 7 or 490 years. Out of those 490 years 483 years were fulfilled at the crucifixion of Christ (when Messiah was cut off, but not for Himself). Therefore seven years remain to be fulfilled, since none of the items mentioned above have been actually fulfilled.

1. To finish the transgression: the word "transgression" in Scripture generally applies to a violation or breaking of the Ten Commandments. Has the violation of the Ten Commandments stopped? Not if we look around us and see how sin and evil arfe growing by leaps and bounds.

2. To make an end of sins: Has sinning come to an end? Obviously not. But one day there will be no sinning on this earth which will be established in universal righteousness.

3. To make reconciliation for iniquity: this could apply to the finished work of Christ on the cross. But it could also apply to all sinners being reconciled to God. As we know that has not happened. But one day all the nations of the earth will be saved nations, all having been reconciled to God through Christ.

4. To bring in everlasting righteousness: this can only happen after the earth and its atmosphere have been thoroughly purified with supernatural fire and everything that is corrupt has been burned up. It is only after that that God will establish "New Heavens and a New Earth" wherein dwelleth righteousness.

5. To seal up the vision and prophecy: all visions and prophecies must be fulfilled, and once they are fulfilled there is no further need for this. Once again that can only happen when the New Heavens and the New Earth are firmly in place.

6. To anoint the most Holy: this can only be a reference to the final temple in Jerusalem as described in Ezekiel. God will see this temple as "most holy". And as we know from the tabernacle and temple in Jerusalem while the Old Covenant was in place, several items were anointed according to God's instructions: (a) the priests, (b) the tabernacle, (c) the altar for burnt offerings, (d) the laver, and (e) the king. What we are not shown in Ezekiel is how this temple fits into the New Covenant, since the New Covenant is definitely applicable at this time.

However, until all these things have been fulfilled that prophecy in Daniel remains unfulfilled. As to what happens within those last seven years is a topic for another thread.

There are two Jerusalem’s

“Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:7, 13‬ ‭

there is salvstion and everlasting righteousness in heavens Jerusalem already but not on earth that Jerusalem is doomed with all creation

“And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:10-12‬ ‭

But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12:22-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

in the end jerusalem is going to come from heaven not from earth

“And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what is being established in heaven is going to come with Christ back to earth


“If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[Nehemiah6]

There are two Jerusalem’s

Of course. But one does NOT cancel the other.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Punishment wasn't finished. Why? Because the people didn't turn back to Him so he punished them 7 times more than the 70 years.

That's possible but it should be put in the context of the Tribulation or the time of Jacob's trouble.

 

[Ahwatukee]

[QUOTE5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 6But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates. NOT MIDST NOT EVEN OF LUKE 17:20-21]

[/QUOTE]

"When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.

Jesus was speaking of himself as being in their midst. As for the kingdom of God, whether speaking about the millennial kingdom or the eternal state to come, there will be many signs.

=================================================================

Immediately after the tribulation of those days:

‘The sun will be darkened,

and the moon will not give its light;

the stars will fall from the sky,

and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’

At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.

=========================================================================

So, the sun and moon being darkened and the Lord arriving on the clouds of heaven, will be signs of the Lord's coming to end the age and establish the millennial kingdom. Is all that not observable especially by the words "They will see?"

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Of course. But one does NOT cancel the other.

they canceled themselves out brother when they crucified Jesus

“But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭21:37-43‬ ‭KJV‬‬


Thier promises of restoration on earth was dependent upon them receiving the seed of Abraham when he came they rejected and crucified him so the curse came instead of the blessing and Jerusalem was destroyed utterly almost 2000 years desolate with no temple now while the blessing was sent to the world from the remnant who believes and began to fill the heavenly Jerusalem

one was only temporary because of this

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17-18‬ ‭

do you see how it actually does cancel out the other ?

Ishmael was born first but he was cast out when Isaac was born and had no part in Abraham’s house

“For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:22-26, 28-31‬ ‭KJV‬‬


the ot promises were either restoration when the messiah came or destruction

“And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Well John the Baptist was beheaded and Jesus accused and crucified so we need to be saved from the curse now into kingdom in heaven where Jerusalem is the one here on earth is just part of the cursed earth like all nations because of what they did

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:5-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:21, 23-

 

[Dino246]

the fact Israel has not finished their transgression, they are still in sin, and the city and their is stil unfulfilled prophecy should lead us to see this is not yet fulfilled should it not

The text does not say, "To finish their transgression" but rather "to finish the transgression" or simply "to finish transgression".

When interpreting Scripture, we need to consider all possible meanings of key words. To "finish" something can mean to bring it to an end, or to bring it to completion. The completion of the Jews' transgression was their rejection of their Messiah.

My NIV has a footnote on the word "finish": "or restrain". That would also work for a first-century fulfillment, as Jesus' ministry did bring in restraint of transgression through the power of the Holy Spirit in believers.

 

[Dino246]

I wholeheartedly disagree with you here Dino! For the decree is specifically upon Daniel's people (Israel) and their holy city (Jerusalem).

"Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city"

At the end of 69 seventy year periods (483 years), Christ was cut off/crucified. At that time God paused that last seven years and began to build His church. Once the church has been gathered, then God will pick up right where He left off with the last seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, complete with temple and sacrifices and offerings.

I don't know why you would even claim what you did, when the scripture states that the entire seventy seven year periods were decreed upon Israel and their the holy city.

* Seven 'sevens' (49 years) to restore and rebuild Jerusalem

* Sixty Two sevens (434 years) at the end of which Messiah was cut off

* Seventieth seven to be fulfilled in the near future by that ruler/antichrist:

=== Seven year covenant established in part with Israel
=== Sacrifices and offerings ceased
=== Abomination set up in the holy place

It's all about Israel and Jerusalem!

I didn't say it wasn't. It appears that you misread what I wrote.

 

[GaryA]

@Nehemiah6 - brother - please read the following web page - it has an explanation that I sincerely hope will help you to better understand what Daniel 9:24-27 is actually saying:

http://mywebsite.us/BibleStudy/Seventy_Weeks.html

The passage is strictly about:

~ 'the time Israel has left'

~ the work of Christ during His First Coming

~ the events circa 70 A.D.

You must look at it in the context of the whole chapter.

There is no futuristic period.

(from Daniel's POV, yes; from our POV, no)

There is no antichrist figure.

The words 'he' (all three) in verse 27 are referring to Christ.

"I promise you - it is true."

The word 'covenant' is not referring to a treaty with Israel.

Christ was crucified in the middle of the 70th week.

The 490 years were unbroken.

The 490 years ended in 34 A.D.

It is 100% fulfilled.

Please read it brother.

See if the explanation helps you to understand it better.

 

[GaryA]

That is not what the passage is talking about

It is what the passage is talking about.

(that part of it)

 

[GaryA]

But the perfection of creation must wait until the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.

But, the things listed in verse 24 do not.

 

[GaryA]

Why are you trying to change the plain meaning of Scripture to fit your eschatology?

He is not; rather, he is trying to get you to see the plain meaning of the passage - what it actually says.

Everyone here is claiming that all this has been fulfilled.

Because, it has...

But since the reign of the Antichrist is in the future, that totally refutes this idea.

There is no antichrist in the passage.

 

[GaryA]

That's where I am getting it. And Daniel ties right into Revelation 13.

No it does not - not in the slightest.

No commonality.

Totally different.

 

[GaryA]

Since this is in the future, ...

This assumption is enough to drive you into permanent irreversable error...

You must not make such assumptions when studying the passage.

 

[GaryA]

The Antichrist will make a bogus covenant with the Jews in Israel to continue with their temple sacrifices in a future temple. But after 3 1/2 years he will shut down those sacrifices, install the Abomination of Desolation (the image of the Beast), sit in the temple claiming he is God, and trigger the Great Tribulation (called desolations in Daniel).

Absolutely none of this is true. Nor is any of it in the passage.

 

[GaryA]

I wish we were all in a room somewhere discussing this. Would make for an interesting time, I think.

A true test of self-control and restraint...

 

[GaryA]

The finishing of the transgression was the crucifixion of Christ.