Why Daniel's 70th week must be in the future

[GRACE_ambassador]

What has been fulfilled is the first 483 years which ended with the crucifixion of Christ.

Precious friend, appreciate your Excellent presentation of this Important Information, for our continued learning of God's Word Of Truth. I was just wondering about:

Luke 13:6-9
"He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then
said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I
come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why
cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let
it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it
bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down."

Q: Could this possibly refer to "one year of Daniel's 70th week passing"
after The Cross, before Israel fell in Acts 7, when the leaders committed
the Unpardonable sin, rejecting The Holy Spirit {through Stephen}, and
His Last Call to Israel for repentance?

Q2: Because of this didn't God Interrupt His prophetic program, in
order to usher in His Current parenthetical (Age Of GRACE), with His
Revelation of the MYSTERY, to Paul, our apostle "to the Gentiles,"
leaving the remaining 6 years of the man of sin, abomination of
desolation, judgment, and wrath, to be resumed when He "Closes
His Age Of GRACE with our Great GRACE Departure" to heaven?

Making "484 years which have ended"? Of course if I am mistaken,
then All "7 years" would still be future, Correct?

Thanks for all your prophetic Expert assistance with my wandering,
er, wondering questions.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

like the spring showers that water the earth [/like the former/early/spring rains unto the earth]."

EDIT to correct: should read... [/like the LATTER/early/spring rains unto the earth]." (LATTER rains are the "spring" rains, sry... typed too hastily)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with obsnervation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Now many want it to say midst so they can look outside for flesh and blood beliefs,

2COR 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? or midst is a fake translation unless your waiting for a return.

Dan is allegory thats not midst or secular history thats observational for flesh and blood man.

No prophecy should be taken as an allegory. God uses it for a purpose. Making an allegory of it destroys the purpose

The first 69 weeks of Daniel 9 are literally fulfilled. As are most of Dan 2 and Dan 7.

We also use prophecy to interpret prophesy. Uf part of the prophecy is fulfilled literall;y. It all should be fulfilled literally.

 

[Yahshua]

I wish we were all in a room somewhere discussing this. Would make for an interesting time, I think.

 

[Ahwatukee]

That is not what you think the passage is talking about. Please be humble enough to recognize the difference.


Actually, that is not what the passage says. Here it is again...

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

The first section establishes the object for the seventy weeks, not the object of the events.

The rest establishes the purpose(s) for the seventy weeks. The phrasing does not require that these events are wholly effective upon the Jews and/or Jerusalem.

I wholeheartedly disagree with you here Dino! For the decree is specifically upon Daniel's people (Israel) and their holy city (Jerusalem).

"Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city"

At the end of 69 seventy year periods (483 years), Christ was cut off/crucified. At that time God paused that last seven years and began to build His church. Once the church has been gathered, then God will pick up right where He left off with the last seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and Jerusalem, complete with temple and sacrifices and offerings.

I don't know why you would even claim what you did, when the scripture states that the entire seventy seven year periods were decreed upon Israel and their the holy city.

* Seven 'sevens' (49 years) to restore and rebuild Jerusalem

* Sixty Two sevens (434 years) at the end of which Messiah was cut off

* Seventieth seven to be fulfilled in the near future by that ruler/antichrist:

=== Seven year covenant established in part with Israel
=== Sacrifices and offerings ceased
=== Abomination set up in the holy place

It's all about Israel and Jerusalem!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

About the phrase "THE ANTICHRIST"...


Consider also:

1 John 2:18 -
"Little children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard [G191] that antichrist is coming, even now many [...]"


This phrase [/word] "ye have heard [G191]" is used, to be speaking of things already having been spoken of in the OT... for example, as used here:


[G191]

Matthew 5:21 V-AIA-2P
GRK: Ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἐρρέθη
NAS: You have heard that the ancients
KJV: Ye have heard that it was said
INT: You have heard that it was said

Matthew 5:27 V-AIA-2P
GRK: Ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἐρρέθη
NAS: You have heard that it was said,
KJV: Ye have heard that it was said
INT: You have heard that it was said

Matthew 5:33 V-AIA-2P
GRK: Πάλιν ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἐρρέθη
NAS: Again, you have heard that the ancients
KJV: Again, ye have heard that
INT: Again you have heard that it was said

Matthew 5:38 V-AIA-2P
GRK: Ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἐρρέθη
NAS: You have heard that it was said,
KJV: Ye have heard that it hath been said,
INT: You have heard that it was said

Matthew 5:43 V-AIA-2P
GRK: Ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἐρρέθη
NAS: You have heard that it was said,
KJV: Ye have heard that it hath been said,
INT: You have heard that it was said


...thus, one should consider just where in OT Scriptures this particular thing in 1Jn2:18 ("[as] ye have heard") has already been referenced [I've posted on this Subject in past posts]...

The "[as] ye have heard [G191]" (1Jn2:18) is not speaking merely of what we call "hearsay" or "rumors," or even in the sense of "the word around town is...".

 

[Ahwatukee]

Luke 17:20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with obsnervation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Now many want it to say midst so they can look outside for flesh and blood beliefs,

2COR 13:5Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? or midst is a fake translation unless your waiting for a return.

Dan is allegory thats not midst or secular history thats observational for flesh and blood man.

I beg to differ with you glenn55! We know from a historical and Biblical accounts, that the prophecy of the seven 'sevens' (49 years) was fulfilled

We also know that the Anointed One was cut off (Christ crucified) at the end of the sixty two sevens for a total of 483 years.

I'm bettin' that the last seven years will be fulfilled literally as well.

I also beg to differ with you in that, the kingdom of God will come with observation:

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

You have to understand what Jesus meant when He said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation."
What He did mean is that the kingdom of God was among them, meaning himself. Regarding this He said:

"But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

Jesus was in their midst and He was the way to the kingdom of God which will come with observation as well.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Q: Could this possibly refer to "one year of Daniel's 70th week passing" after The Cross, before Israel fell in Acts 7, when the leaders committed the Unpardonable sin, rejecting The Holy Spirit {through Stephen}, and His Last Call to Israel for repentance?

I do not believe this can be brought into Daniel's prophecy, which stops at the crucifixion of Christ, then speaks of the reign of the Antichrist.

So to go back to Daniel 9:25,25 here is what is stated: Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself...

A. "From the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem"
1. This commandment was given in the first year of the reign of Cyrus, king of Persia, which is dated as 539 BC (according to Ptolemy's chronology). https://www.livius.org/sources/content/bible/ezra-on-cyrus/
2. However Martin Anstey (who wrote the Chronology of the Old Testament) recalculated Ptolemy's chronology strictly on the basis of the Bible, and concluded that it was off (higher) by 86 years.
3. So 539-86 = 453 BC would be the correct date.

B. Shall be seven weeks"
1. Seven weeks = 7 x 7 = 49 years
2. 453 - 49 = 404 BC when "the street [was] built again, and the wall".

C. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself...
1. Threescore = 3 x 20 = 60 weeks x 7 = 420 years
2. Two weeks = 2 x 7 = 14 years
3. Seven weeks = 7 x 7 = 49 years
4. 420 + 14 + 49 = 483 years.

D. Christ was crucified on the 14th of Nisan in 30 AD
453 BC + 30 AD = 483 years

E. Daniel's 70th week (Dan 9:26,27) will be in the future
... and the people of the prince that shall come [the Antichrist] shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Ahwatukee]

All wrong N6.

What Nehemiah said is all correct. It is the same conclusion that I have garnered from my studies.

 

[Ahwatukee]

No prophecy should be taken as an allegory. God uses it for a purpose. Making an allegory of it destroys the purpose

The first 69 weeks of Daniel 9 are literally fulfilled. As are most of Dan 2 and Dan 7.

We also use prophecy to interpret prophesy. Uf part of the prophecy is fulfilled literall;y. It all should be fulfilled literally.

Pretty difficult for them to make it an allegory when we have historical proof of the literal restoring and rebuilding of Israel and the Messiah being cut off. As I said earlier, I'm bettin' that since the first to stages of that prophecy was fulfilled literally, then I'm 100% sure that the last seven years will also be fulfilled literally.

 

[Yahshua]

Are there any other visions or prophecies in scripture, where time-frames are specifically given, that have not be completely fulfilled exactly as measured? If so it would establish a precedent for there being a break, pause, or gap in the specific time-frame of 70 "sevens" given to Daniel.

Now there IS a precedent for the Almighty multiplying a time-frame of punishment by "7" (as explained in Leviticus 26:18 & 28) which appears to be the reason why Daniel is corrected after his prayer. Daniel, after studying Jeremiah, understood that punishment for the people would be 70 years...but the angel comes and tells him that it would last 70 x 7 (490 years).

Are there any other prophecies where a specific time that's given is paused?

 

[Yahshua]

Uf part of the prophecy is fulfilled literall;y. It all should be fulfilled literally.

Agreed. So then 70 "sevens" (490 yeas) should literally be 70 "sevens" (490 years), right? Not approx. 2483 years and counting.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Are there any other visions or prophecies in scripture, where time-frames are specifically given, that have not be completely fulfilled exactly as measured?

Name any other time-prophecy that is WORDED LIKE "[from _____ unto _____] shall be SEVEN WEEKS [/SEVENS], *and* SIXTY-TWO WEEKS [/SEVENS]"... (though having NO gap of time here, at this point in the wording / timing).

Right off the bat one should notice this is no ordinary time-prophecy, but that there is something UNIQUE about it (that one should take note of).




[btw, the "490 years" total [i.e. "70 Weeks [/Sevens]"] will indeed be "fulfilled" exactly as measured--there are only "490 years" here, see... just not all in the same solid chunk of time, due to the SEQUENTIAL nature of this prophecy, as written... vv.24-27 written SEQUENTIALLY]

 

[Yahshua]

Name any other time-prophecy that is WORDED LIKE "[from _____ unto _____] shall be SEVEN WEEKS [/SEVENS], *and* SIXTY-TWO WEEKS [/SEVENS]"... (though having NO gap of time here, at this point in the wording / timing).

Right off the bat one should notice this is no ordinary time-prophecy, but that there is something UNIQUE about it (that one should take note of).

Uniqueness doesn't determine authenticity with the Almighty. It may with man, but with the Eternal one His rules are that "two or more witnesses establish a truth".

So is there any other specific prophetic time-frame given in scripture that has not been completely fulfilled exactly as measured (starting and then pausing)? If you can find one then that gives a 2nd witness to the idea that the Almighty pauses His counting at times, establishing it as a truth.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ You're not getting what I'm saying (I don't think).

The "[from ____ unto ____] shall be SEVEN WEEKS [/SEVENS]. *and* SIXTY-TWO SEVENS [/WEEKS]"... that totals 483 years.

But in all other time-related prophecies, would [and DOES] just straightforwardly put "_____ [such-and-such number of] years".

There is NOT "gap" in the above (at top).



So why not just write "[shall be] 483 years" here?

I believe there is a "REASON"



[and I believe one *reason* has to do with "how long" the "70 YEARS captivity," spoken of earlier in this chpt, actually factored out to being in *regular* years (based on what king was reigning when), which ISRAEL understands (or, at least "WILL" [come to] understand--when it becomes pertinent...)]

 

[Yahshua]

^ You're not getting what I'm saying (I don't think).

The "[from ____ unto ____] shall be SEVEN WEEKS [/SEVENS]. *and* SIXTY-TWO SEVENS [/WEEKS]"... that totals 483 years.

But in all other time-related prophecies, would just straightforwardly put "_____ [such-and-such number of] years".

There is NOT "gap" in the above.



So why not just write "[shall be] 483 years" here?

I believe there is a "REASON"



[and I believe one *reason* has to do with "how long" the "70 YEARS captivity," spoken of earlier in this chpt, actually factored out to being in *regular* years (based on what king was reigning when), which ISRAEL understands (or, at least "WILL" [come to] understand)]

There's no REASON to try to outsmart the Almighty. We're told the reason at the beginning of the angel's answer.

Thinking there's a secret time code here flies in the face of the entire reason the Almighty sent the angel to correct Daniel's timing.

Daniel was trying to figure out the length of the time of punishment of his people to know when it would end. And so we have the angel going through portion after portion after portion of actual time passing, to explain this to Daniel; EVERY SINGLE EVENT that still needed to happen to his people until the consummation.

Doing so proves that the Almighty is Sovereign, knowing every single event that will happen with regard to Daniel's people. So why in heaven would the Almighty not share the actual amount of time it would take with his "highly favored" servant when he's shared every other detail? It makes no sense.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ @Yahshua ,

[...] "how long" the "70 YEARS captivity," spoken of earlier in this chpt, actually factored out to being in *regular* years (based on what king was reigning when) [...]

...and let me be VERY CLEAR, here... the "70 YEARS captivity" (earlier in this chpt--and nearing an end when Daniel was praying, here) is completely DISTINCT FROM the "70 WEEKS" prophecy (vv.24-27).

 

[Nehemiah6]

Daniel, after studying Jeremiah, understood that punishment for the people would be 70 years...but the angel comes and tells him that it would last 70 x 7 (490 years).

Actually the 70 year captivity of the Jews lasted just 70 years. Some choose 608-538 and others choose 586-516. Either way that 70 years was fulfilled exactly and Daniel's prayers had something to do with that.

However, the 490 years are not about captivity but about deliverance. When Christ died on the cross, He delivered mankind from the power of sin, death, Hades, Hell, and Satan. Therefore those who believe on Him are delivered from the penalty, the power, and the presence of sin. But after the 70th week He will deliver creation from the bondage of sin and corruption (see Romans 8 and Revelation 21). Those seven years are reserved for wrath and judgment on the unbelieving and the ungodly. But later everlasting righteousness will be established in the New Heavens and the New Earth. So Christians have the privilege of knowing God's plan in broad detail.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

flies in the face of the entire reason the Almighty sent the angel to correct Daniel's timing.

Except the angel wasn't being sent to Daniel to CORRECT Daniel's timing, see...

Daniel "understood" about the "seventy YEARS captivity" (that was nearing its end, when Daniel was praying, earlier in that chpt)... for it says (of the angel, re: the second part of the chpt's info), "I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding... therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. Seventy WEEKS [/SEVENS] are DETERMINED UPON..." (this is distinct from the "70 YEARS captivity"... which itself was nearing its end, at the time Daniel prayed...)

 

[Yahshua]

^ @Yahshua ,

...and let me be VERY CLEAR, here... the "70 YEARS captivity" (earlier in this chpt--and nearing an end when Daniel was praying, here) is completely DISTINCT FROM the "70 WEEKS" prophecy (vv.24-27).

Actually the 70 year captivity of the Jews lasted just 70 years. Some choose 608-538 and others choose 586-516. Either way that 70 years was fulfilled exactly and Daniel's prayers had something to do with that.

Except the angel wasn't being sent to Daniel to CORRECT Daniel's timing, see...

Daniel "understood" about the "seventy YEARS captivity" (that was nearing its end, when Daniel was praying, earlier in that chpt)... for it says (of the angel, re: the second part of the chpt's info), "I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding... therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. Seventy WEEKS [/SEVENS] are DETERMINED UPON..." (this is distinct from the "70 YEARS captivity"... which itself was nearing its end, at the time Daniel prayed...)

Daniel 9:2-3, 5, 13, 17
2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:

5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:

13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.


Notice, that the people did not make prayer to Almighty for the punishment/desolation they were experiencing. They did not hearken back to God. The angel was sent in response to Daniel's prayer on behalf of the people. See the passage below...


Leviticus 26:17-18,
17 And I will set my face against you, and ye shall be slain before your enemies: they that hate you shall reign over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you.

18 And if ye will not yet for all this hearken unto me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

21 And if ye walk contrary unto me, and will not hearken unto me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins.


Daniel 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Punishment wasn't finished. Why? Because the people didn't turn back to Him so he punished them 7 times more than the 70 years.