Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[JerryInBoston]

That is a lie! Outright!! Don't put words in my mouth bub. I do not idolize ANY man, period. I don't believe in hyper grace. You don't speak for me. You don't know me. You haven't been where I have, seen what I've seen. When you do, you can speak for me. What you're saying is an utter and outright lie. Say it again and you will find yourself reported. You are trying to antagonize and get a rise out of people here. It's enough. Stop spreading lies.

The lie is coming from you and EG when you both claim and agree I am a legalist and that I claim one must earn one's salvation. Even after I gave scriptural support for my position, you continue to call me a legalist and claim I am pushing a works based salvation. You two are pushing the big lie here.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Opinions, like ears, everybody has them. Q is something the left is pushing. Most Trump supporters didn't know and still don't know who or what it was. My husband heard about it, mentioned it to me and we decided it was nonsense, same as most Trump supporters. But the left is trying to pin that to DT supporters to make sure he won't run again. Doing everything they can to stop him. Quite funny to watch.

I am not even sure what or who Q is, to me Q is a start trek character back in the next generation (I hear he will be in the next season of Picard also)

I just stated I voted for trump over the evil Hillary and the inept Biden. And see where it turns?

that’s what happens when when you hit someone’s nerve,, I am used to it

 

[kaylagrl]

You're uninformed, to say the least. Q was an inside job created by the great entertainer's (DJTs) very own political machine, all in an effort to keep his fawning idolizing supporters focused on things that would never materialize, as in: 25,000 secret indictments against underground group of high profile peoplein politics banking entertainment etc, guantanimo Bay prison built for pedophiles and enemies of the Republic, all laced with Christian scriptural passages to lull DJT supporters into believing the Q was true and DJT was doing the will of God. I know because the conservative pastor whose assembly I left was spewing Q as absolute truth. Such was the case across the United States in many conservative Christian churches. Perhaps your hyper-grace liberal pastor didn't buy into Q, but Q was followed by tens of millions of conservative Christians without apology.

Jerry in Boston, I'm about done with your foolishness. But it sounds like you aren't beyond conspiracy theories yourself, where this post belongs. Now, my pastor is either a liberal according to you, or he's a DT right wing conspirator. Which is it? Can't be both. My pastor is well read, well informed and well over your head. Neither of us is a liberal, neither of us fell for a conspiracy theory like you apparently have. So go put this in the forum it belongs. You're talking out of two sides of your face and you haven't got the sense God gave a goose. Believe whatever you want to believe. Keep my name and your lies out of your mouth. You don't know me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do idolize Donald J. Trump, which is clear when you said you are a "Trump loving Republican." You can come to grips with your idolatry of Reagan and Trump in the private moments you have with the Lord. HE will forgive you. But to openly deny your idolatry is just mocking the God of truth who knows your heart. 🙏

Now your a command broker, bearing false witness

do us all a favor and take your works loving, Jesus hating gospel someplace else. You have been exposed

 

[Runningman]

God's word is truth. One can be saved and never walk away from his or her salvation through continued faith and abiding in Christ. One can be saved and then lose his or her faith and walk away, apostacize, and be as lost as they once were before being saved. God calls all to repentance and repentance is ongoing, which God's word calls sanctification, and if you continue in sanctification until either bodily death or Christ's coming, you will be glorified.

Real saving faith that becomes false faith without salvation is an oxymoron. Either the word of God (through which faith comes) is on the good soil of our heart or it isn't. If it isn't then it wasn't real faith to begin with because it lacked a solid foundation.

Falling away comes from false doctrines, impotent promises never proposed by God to begin with, such as works-based salvation for example. One will eventually realize their sheer inadequacy to attain and hold the level of perfection God requires for very long, if at all.

That makes repentance a change of mind leading to a change of actions. If one sins after repentance, was it true repentance? If repentance is an effort to make ourselves self-righteous before God then why does He call our righteousness a filthy rag? You got it all wrong.

It is God who sanctifies us, disciplines us, and makes us righteous through Christ, the worthy sin offering. This is not about us walking in sinless perfection from the exact moment we come to have faith in Christ. If that were so then conversion from a worldly lifestyle to Child of God would be impossible because new Christians are often worldly. Mature Christians have had more time to be refined by God.

He who began a good work in us will complete it. Just have faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is a lie! Outright!! Don't put words in my mouth bub. I do not idolize ANY man, period. I don't believe in hyper grace. You don't speak for me. You don't know me. You haven't been where I have, seen what I've seen. When you do, you can speak for me. What you're saying is an utter and outright lie. Say it again and you will find yourself reported. You are trying to antagonize and get a rise out of people here. It's enough. Stop spreading lies.

Lol it’s ok sis, he was backed to a wall and now he is coming out swinging don’t fall for his games, he is trying to discredit you so he can save face.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The lie is coming from you and EG when you both claim and agree I am a legalist and that I claim one must earn one's salvation. Even after I gave scriptural support for my position, you continue to call me a legalist and claim I am pushing a works based salvation. You two are pushing the big lie here.

You are a legalist, I proved it. And if I have to repost our comments which proves it I will

you stated as mere fact obedience to gods commands is required to keep and maintain salvation

 

[kaylagrl]

The lie is coming from you and EG when you both claim and agree I am a legalist and that I claim one must earn one's salvation. Even after I gave scriptural support for my position, you continue to call me a legalist and claim I am pushing a works based salvation. You two are pushing the big lie here.

I'm not part of that convo. that's between the two of you. He's got a lot more patience with you than I do, I'll give him that. I haven't said anything to you about legalism and I'm not going to be drawn in on that tennis match.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jerry in Boston, I'm about done with your foolishness. But it sounds like you aren't beyond conspiracy theories yourself, where this post belongs. Now, my pastor is either a liberal according to you, or he's a DT right wing conspirator. Which is it? Can't be both. My pastor is well read, well informed and well over your head. Neither of us is a liberal, neither of us fell for a conspiracy theory like you apparently have. So go put this in the forum it belongs. You're talking out of two sides of your face and you haven't got the sense God gave a goose. Believe whatever you want to believe. Keep my name and your lies out of your mouth. You don't know me.

Like I said before, he is all over the place. not just with his scripture but with this

 

[kaylagrl]

Don't get angry. It's a sin akin to murder.

No, hate is akin to murder. I don't hate you, I just think you're opinions are dumb and I can't stand a liar. That's all.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Real saving faith that becomes false faith without salvation is an oxymoron. Either the word of God (through which faith comes) is on the good soil of our heart or it isn't. If it isn't then it wasn't real faith to begin with because it lacked a solid foundation.

Falling away comes from false doctrines, impotent promises never proposed by God to begin with, such as works-based salvation for example. One will eventually realize their sheer inadequacy to attain and hold the level of perfection God requires for very long, if at all.

That makes repentance a change of mind leading to a change of actions. If one sins after repentance, was it true repentance? If repentance is an effort to make ourselves self-righteous before God then why does He call our righteousness a filthy rag? You got it all wrong.

It is God who sanctifies us, disciplines us, and makes us righteous through Christ, the worthy sin offering. This is not about us walking in sinless perfection from the exact moment we come to have faith in Christ. If that were so then conversion from a worldly lifestyle to Child of God would be impossible because new Christians are often worldly. Mature Christians have had more time to be refined by God.

He who began a good work in us will complete it. Just have faith.

Okay, answer this: Jesus told the church at Ephesus to repent and return, and if they did not they would lose out on the tree of life in paradise. Does that mean that the church at Ephesus had never repented and that they were not at one time saved? Explain.

 

[JerryInBoston]

No, hate is akin to murder. I don't hate you, I just think you're opinions are dumb and I can't stand a liar. That's all.

You must have either skipped over or forgot what Jesus said about anger in Matthew 5:22.

 

[JerryInBoston]

No, hate is akin to murder. I don't hate you, I just think you're opinions are dumb and I can't stand a liar. That's all.

Regardless of your misrepresentations of me, I forgive you. ❤

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Okay, answer this: Jesus told the church at Ephesus to repent and return, and if they did not they would lose out on the tree of life in paradise. Does that mean that the church at Ephesus had never repented and that they were not at one time saved? Explain.

Once again

THE CHURCH, not an individual in that church,

that’s what happens when you need t manipulate scripture to support your theology, the simplest things are lost on you

 

[JerryInBoston]

Once again

THE CHURCH, not an individual in that church,

that’s what happens when you need t manipulate scripture to support your theology, the simplest things are lost on you

You mean the assembly of individual believers at Ephesus?

You do know what the word ekklesia means, don't you? It's not a building. It's the body of assembled believers, whether two or twenty (as in a house church) or twenty thousand (as in a mega-church) the church is made up of individuals that call themselves individually and collectively Christian.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You mean the assembly of individual believers at Ephesus?

You do know what the word ekklesia means, don't you? It's not a building. It's the body of assembled believers, whether two or twenty (as in a house church) or twenty thousand (as in a mega-church) the church is made up of individuals that call themselves individually and collectively Christian.

Yeah I do know what the assembly means, it means a group

the message was to the GROUP in Ephesus, not to induvidual within that group

once again, the lamp stand was given to the GROUP not individuals.

so your trying to relate a message given to a CHURCH to individuals within that group,

it was the local church that was in danger, must like Israel lost its way and had their status and power removed,

 

[Runningman]

Okay, answer this: Jesus told the church at Ephesus to repent and return, and if they did not they would lose out on the tree of life in paradise. Does that mean that the church at Ephesus had never repented and that they were not at one time saved? Explain.

So this is Revelation 2:1-7.

The only thing Jesus charges them with is leaving their first love. They were not loving God enough which is the first and greatest command.

It doesn't say anything about the Ephesian church losing out on a tree of life in paradise through lack of endurance. In fact Jesus commends their endurance in verse 3. He doesn't reverse this commendation.

He says He'll take their candlestick away, undoubtedly figurative language.

In Revelation 1:20, John explains the candlesticks are churches. The candlesticks are not the tree of life in paradise.

Jesus wanted them to return to their first love. This is about church revival. Their punishment would have been having their candlestick removed or, in other words, have their church disbanded or destroyed, not lose out on paradise.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Yeah I do know what the assembly means, it means a group

the message was to the GROUP in Ephesus, not to induvidual within that group

once again, the lamp stand was given to the GROUP not individuals.

so your trying to relate a message given to a CHURCH to individuals within that group,

it was the local church that was in danger, must like Israel lost its way and had their status and power removed,

While Jesus is directing John to write to the general assembly at Ephesus as a whole, Jesus's statements are directed to the individuals in that assembly:

“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” Revelation 2:7.

 

[JerryInBoston]

So this is Revelation 2:1-7.

The only thing Jesus charges them with is leaving their first love. They were not loving God enough which is the first and greatest command.

It doesn't say anything about the Ephesian church losing out on a tree of life in paradise through lack of endurance. In fact Jesus commends their endurance in verse 3. He doesn't reverse this commendation.

He says He'll take their candlestick away, undoubtedly figurative language.

In Revelation 1:20, John explains the candlesticks are churches. The candlesticks are not the tree of life in paradise.

Jesus wanted them to return to their first love. This is about church revival. Their punishment would have been having their candlestick removed or, in other words, have their church disbanded or destroyed, not lose out on paradise.

Here's Revelation 2:7 (NKJV): "“He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.”

Jesus tells them to repent and warns that only those that overcome will have eternal life.

 

[kaylagrl]

You must have either skipped over or forgot what Jesus said about anger in Matthew 5:22.

1 John 3:15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that eternal life does not reside in a murderer.

Matt 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment.

When someone bears false witness against you, that's a cause. And righteous indigence isn't the same as anger.