50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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The Davidic Messiah (Jesus) is present on earth in Ezekiel 37, and 1 Thess 4:16-18 for instance, tells us that when Jesus the Messiah returns to this earth, it accompanies the resurrection of the dead.
You can not have a restored Israel without Jesus (the Davidic Messiah present on earth in Ezekiel 37).
You can not have a restored Israel without Jesus (the Davidic Messiah present on earth in Ezekiel 37).
The temple in Israel will have world wide effect. Read 2 Thess 2: 1-4 how the antichrist enters the Israeli temple and demand worship from the whole wide world, before the rapture will happen.
2 Thessalonians 2 (NKJV)
1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
2 Thessalonians 2 (NKJV)
1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of [a]Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits [c]as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Tribulations = tribulation
Wrath of God = wrath of God
Tribulation ≠ Wrath of God
Christian's do not face the wrath of God, but Christians do face tribulations, and will face the great tribulation:
Acts 14 (NKJV)
22strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
Wrath of God = wrath of God
Tribulation ≠ Wrath of God
Christian's do not face the wrath of God, but Christians do face tribulations, and will face the great tribulation:
Acts 14 (NKJV)
22strengthening the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and saying, “We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.”
FreeGrace2 said:
Pretribbers are FORCED to say and believe this since the 'gathering' which is the rapture follows the Trib.
OK then. What do "coming of our Lord" and "gathering to Him" mean in 2 Thess 2:1 if NOT the Second Coming and rapture??
Please explain.
Pretribbers are FORCED to say and believe this since the 'gathering' which is the rapture follows the Trib.
OK then. What do "coming of our Lord" and "gathering to Him" mean in 2 Thess 2:1 if NOT the Second Coming and rapture??
Please explain.
Ezekiel 37 presents something like what is described as taking place in "stages"...
...and this chapter has God saying "I WILL" in something like 11 verses: vv.5,6,12,13,14,19,21,22,23,26,27... (see "I / ego [G1473]" in the LXX, for example)... iow, it seems to be prophetic in nature, in that it is telling what His "I WILL" will do
...and this chapter has God saying "I WILL" in something like 11 verses: vv.5,6,12,13,14,19,21,22,23,26,27... (see "I / ego [G1473]" in the LXX, for example)... iow, it seems to be prophetic in nature, in that it is telling what His "I WILL" will do
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Well, same to you. It really isn't your place to be judging God's servants, but since you want to know I will gladly give you answers to your questions about me.
1. Yes, I have real convictions in my spirit about sin and righteousness.
2. You may recall that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but the power of God to those who believe.
In other words, head knowledge of the crucifixion of Christ, raising from the dead, and ascending to heaven is not something a natural person can accept. Why? Because no one has ever witnessed it. This is hard to accept unless God sends His Spirit to help. If you have faith in the message of the cross, real genuine faith, it's evidence of a born again spirit. It's a miracle.
3. Ditto. You could also be under the influence of a false teacher. In fact, I would say that's highly likely because you're not able to see a post-trib rapture in the Bible even when it is shown to you.
1. Yes, I have real convictions in my spirit about sin and righteousness.
2. You may recall that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but the power of God to those who believe.
In other words, head knowledge of the crucifixion of Christ, raising from the dead, and ascending to heaven is not something a natural person can accept. Why? Because no one has ever witnessed it. This is hard to accept unless God sends His Spirit to help. If you have faith in the message of the cross, real genuine faith, it's evidence of a born again spirit. It's a miracle.
3. Ditto. You could also be under the influence of a false teacher. In fact, I would say that's highly likely because you're not able to see a post-trib rapture in the Bible even when it is shown to you.
Listened for 10+ minutes, about the point where he cited the trumpet call of God as a proof for a pre-tribulation rapture.
Jesus confirms there will be a trumpet call of God when He returns, except it isn't in the pre-tribulation period. It's post-tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
"Immediately after the tribulation...they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven...with a great sound of a trumpet..."
He may have passion, but he's preaching a false message.
Jesus confirms there will be a trumpet call of God when He returns, except it isn't in the pre-tribulation period. It's post-tribulation.
Matthew 24:29-31
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
"Immediately after the tribulation...they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven...with a great sound of a trumpet..."
He may have passion, but he's preaching a false message.
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Second alleged proof, 14+ minutes into the sermon, "we shall be caught up" (1 Thess. 4:17) happens after the trump of God. Again, Jesus says He returns with the trump of God (Matthew 24:29-31) which makes this being "caught up" post-trib.
His entire sermon is built on a house of cards. The house of cards fell prior to a quarter of the way through the sermon, yet he just keeps talking. Just waiting for a pew warmer to stand up, interrupt his sermon, and rebuke his false doctrine. I won't hold my breath.
His entire sermon is built on a house of cards. The house of cards fell prior to a quarter of the way through the sermon, yet he just keeps talking. Just waiting for a pew warmer to stand up, interrupt his sermon, and rebuke his false doctrine. I won't hold my breath.
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No you've got that all wrong. The post tribulation gathering trumpet is for Israelites only.
As TDW has stated endlessly time and time again, see Isaiah 27:12 "Ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel".
Post tribbers ALWAYS FAIL understand the distinction between the Church and Israel. What's hidden behind that is kicking Israel to the curb and stealth replacement theology. And that's why I think post-trib is ultimately heretical. It's a tacit denial of the place of Israel in Gods eternal kingdom.
Furthermore the church is raptured instantaneously all at once as one body. On the other hand in Matthew 24:31 has a multitude of angels gathering Israelites only INDIVIDUALLY......over a span of time. The Church is nowhere to be found in Matthew 24...
As TDW has stated endlessly time and time again, see Isaiah 27:12 "Ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel".
Post tribbers ALWAYS FAIL understand the distinction between the Church and Israel. What's hidden behind that is kicking Israel to the curb and stealth replacement theology. And that's why I think post-trib is ultimately heretical. It's a tacit denial of the place of Israel in Gods eternal kingdom.
Furthermore the church is raptured instantaneously all at once as one body. On the other hand in Matthew 24:31 has a multitude of angels gathering Israelites only INDIVIDUALLY......over a span of time. The Church is nowhere to be found in Matthew 24...
