Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality
- Thread starter Unearthed
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
The father did bless his son with the inheritance, and the son wasted the inheritance and turned the blessing into a curse. Much like the hyper-grace folk who believe the moment they think they're saved, they can continue to live in sin without having to confess it, repent of it, and forsake it.
Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6We know that our old selfa was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7For one who has died has been set freeb from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,c you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? 3Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we shall certainly be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6We know that our old selfa was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin. 7For one who has died has been set freeb from sin. 8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him. 10For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. 11So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
15What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves,c you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification.
20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."
-
1
- Show all
Scripture speaks truth whether one accepts it or not. A son can be dead and lost, or alive and found. All have free will.
You mention the father wanted to bless his son. Why couldn't he bless him? Because the son was DEAD. According to the story the father was able to bless his son whom he considered alive again after the son repented and returned.
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. Luke 15:24
You mention the father wanted to bless his son. Why couldn't he bless him? Because the son was DEAD. According to the story the father was able to bless his son whom he considered alive again after the son repented and returned.
"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry. Luke 15:24
E
1. Hypergrace is a name, it’s not a real thing, but in reality Gods grace is hyper, super over abundant, as Jesus told the lady, if you ask I will give rivers of living water flowing to eternal life
2. licentiousness (the biblical term for what you are fighting) is the believe one can say a sinners prayer and live however they want, judge said their destruction was predetermined, as they turn the grace of God to licentiousness. James writes they claim to have faith, and asked if that “claimed faith” could save them, his answer was no. Because that claimed faith was dead. paul said we are saved by grace THROUGH faith, apart from faith, there is no salvation.
licentiousness is based on pride a licentious person has never repented, he tried to use God as a get out of hell card just in case.l he may believe Jesus was real and raised from the dead. But he has no faith in him. Proven by the fact he still lives like the world. He may go to church he even may hold positions (it appears they were ushers in james letter setting people as they came in) and may even look to the outside as a believer, we may not even be able to differentiate them. But they lack tru repentance. That’s why they have no true faith, they have mere belief. Even demons believe, yet they tremble a licentious person does not tremble because they have no fear
we do have however a third group, the legalistic group. The pharisee! He claims to have faith in Jesus also. he too will go to church possibly hold office and does many so called works. The problem with this person is her too has no real faith his faith is in his works, he believes salvation is maintained by what we do (works) or what we do not do (lack of works or sin) if we work, we maintain or keep salvation, if we fall away, stop work or start to sink due to lack of works we lose our pay or reward, hence lose salvation, he too has failed to repent his faith is in the flesh, he claims to believe in God but he rejects Gods word about how sinful he really is, and rejects Gods word that he is the way truth and life, what is sad about him is he will deny he works, he will deny he is preaching works, and insist he is Gods by grace, yet he preaches works. There are different kids of legalists. you have your sacramental legalists, your water baptismal legalists, your sabbath and law legalists. And your variety legalist. He will claim salvation can be lost if we fail, if we do not sacrifice if we stop working, or if we do not do the sacraments they reject they are like pharisees who added law. And proclaim paul said not by works of the law.. paul never mentioned their works so their works are salvic in natural. They will yell about those who commit the big sins (gay sins, murder, porn, sexual sin) and yet not say a word about their own sinl which makes them just as guilty. They in my view are easier to see than a licentious person because their pride is open for all to see especially if they staet discussing the word with a grace believer
the Bible says we have eternal life not conditional life
the licentious person uses that to excuse their sin and say it is ok.
The legalist uses it for the same purpose, since they do not commit the “big sins” they are ok. But then twist it and make it conditional life because it can be lost
both are rooted in pride. The licentious in pride says I can do whatever I wish, and you can’t stop me, his desire is for the flesh. not God, the legalist in pride says I will pay for my own sin by working hardly stopping these sins and attacking the licentious so God can be proud of me.
sadly I fear, both will be left out on judgment day, all I can do is pray for them and hope they repent before it’s too late
you want to fight licentiousness I will be their with you only to help them. And bring them to the light, but you better look in the mirror because once I see you are on the other side of grace, I will pray and try to help you just as hard as you fight the licentious because yu both need help. Even though you both will deny it
2. licentiousness (the biblical term for what you are fighting) is the believe one can say a sinners prayer and live however they want, judge said their destruction was predetermined, as they turn the grace of God to licentiousness. James writes they claim to have faith, and asked if that “claimed faith” could save them, his answer was no. Because that claimed faith was dead. paul said we are saved by grace THROUGH faith, apart from faith, there is no salvation.
licentiousness is based on pride a licentious person has never repented, he tried to use God as a get out of hell card just in case.l he may believe Jesus was real and raised from the dead. But he has no faith in him. Proven by the fact he still lives like the world. He may go to church he even may hold positions (it appears they were ushers in james letter setting people as they came in) and may even look to the outside as a believer, we may not even be able to differentiate them. But they lack tru repentance. That’s why they have no true faith, they have mere belief. Even demons believe, yet they tremble a licentious person does not tremble because they have no fear
we do have however a third group, the legalistic group. The pharisee! He claims to have faith in Jesus also. he too will go to church possibly hold office and does many so called works. The problem with this person is her too has no real faith his faith is in his works, he believes salvation is maintained by what we do (works) or what we do not do (lack of works or sin) if we work, we maintain or keep salvation, if we fall away, stop work or start to sink due to lack of works we lose our pay or reward, hence lose salvation, he too has failed to repent his faith is in the flesh, he claims to believe in God but he rejects Gods word about how sinful he really is, and rejects Gods word that he is the way truth and life, what is sad about him is he will deny he works, he will deny he is preaching works, and insist he is Gods by grace, yet he preaches works. There are different kids of legalists. you have your sacramental legalists, your water baptismal legalists, your sabbath and law legalists. And your variety legalist. He will claim salvation can be lost if we fail, if we do not sacrifice if we stop working, or if we do not do the sacraments they reject they are like pharisees who added law. And proclaim paul said not by works of the law.. paul never mentioned their works so their works are salvic in natural. They will yell about those who commit the big sins (gay sins, murder, porn, sexual sin) and yet not say a word about their own sinl which makes them just as guilty. They in my view are easier to see than a licentious person because their pride is open for all to see especially if they staet discussing the word with a grace believer
the Bible says we have eternal life not conditional life
the licentious person uses that to excuse their sin and say it is ok.
The legalist uses it for the same purpose, since they do not commit the “big sins” they are ok. But then twist it and make it conditional life because it can be lost
both are rooted in pride. The licentious in pride says I can do whatever I wish, and you can’t stop me, his desire is for the flesh. not God, the legalist in pride says I will pay for my own sin by working hardly stopping these sins and attacking the licentious so God can be proud of me.
sadly I fear, both will be left out on judgment day, all I can do is pray for them and hope they repent before it’s too late
you want to fight licentiousness I will be their with you only to help them. And bring them to the light, but you better look in the mirror because once I see you are on the other side of grace, I will pray and try to help you just as hard as you fight the licentious because yu both need help. Even though you both will deny it
-
1
- Show all
E
A son is born of blood, that blood, that dna, is not removed from the son, his fathers blood still flows. hence, he is still the fathers son, he did not become unborn
we are born of blood. The blood of Christ, if we are truly saved. We can no more be unborn than the prodigal son can be unborn
the fathers love did not stop, if the son died before he came back, he would still be the son, nothing can change that’s
whats sad is even without dna knowledge we have today, the people Jesus spoke to knew this, yet we have peopel today deny this, because that have to prove their works based self focused salvation is true. Otherwise it falls on its face,
we are born of blood. The blood of Christ, if we are truly saved. We can no more be unborn than the prodigal son can be unborn
the fathers love did not stop, if the son died before he came back, he would still be the son, nothing can change that’s
whats sad is even without dna knowledge we have today, the people Jesus spoke to knew this, yet we have peopel today deny this, because that have to prove their works based self focused salvation is true. Otherwise it falls on its face,
Apostasy is real.
You had no part in your fleshly birth, but you've reached an age, as did the prodigal in the parable, to fall away and die due to rebellion.
Likewise, you have no part in being born from above, but, just as Jesus tells us, you must continue to abide in him in order for him to abide in you, otherwise you will surely die: "John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love."
You had no part in your fleshly birth, but you've reached an age, as did the prodigal in the parable, to fall away and die due to rebellion.
Likewise, you have no part in being born from above, but, just as Jesus tells us, you must continue to abide in him in order for him to abide in you, otherwise you will surely die: "John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love."
-
1
- Show all
E
Your right i had no part in my fleshly birth, so I can not unborn myself
in the same token, I had no part in my spiritual birth, so I can’t unborn myself
to say one can fall away is to place us under law not grace, good luck with that,
there is only law and grace, the only two options mentioned in scripture
Christ is the only one to fulfill the law. So you better allow him to impute to you the righteousness he fulfilled, like he did Abraham when he believed
otherwise you will have to be saved based on your righteousness and your works, which you will fail
in the same token, I had no part in my spiritual birth, so I can’t unborn myself
to say one can fall away is to place us under law not grace, good luck with that,
there is only law and grace, the only two options mentioned in scripture
Christ is the only one to fulfill the law. So you better allow him to impute to you the righteousness he fulfilled, like he did Abraham when he believed
otherwise you will have to be saved based on your righteousness and your works, which you will fail
You miss the point completely. The prodigal son was lost and dead because of his rebellious sin toward God. Grace saved him when he fully repented, but he can still fall from grace in what is called apostasy. Legalists apostacize by failing to abide in the entire law through rebellious sin, because sin is an affront to the law. Christians apostacize by failing to abide in Christ through rebellious sin, because sin is an affront to Christ.
The Church must tell all unrepentant sinners (homosexuals, adulterers. drunkards, murderers, gossipers, liars. False teachers, etc, etc, etc) that God is love. Yes, indeed HE is love. Unrepentant sinners are loved by God, so much so that God give them one final chance at redemption in their final breath of life.
When the unrepentant sinner dies, God knows their unrepentant heart, and loves them so much that HE allows them to spend eternity in the place that they preferred: In darkness away from light. separated from God, together etetnally with like-minded unrepentant sinners.
When the unrepentant sinner dies, God knows their unrepentant heart, and loves them so much that HE allows them to spend eternity in the place that they preferred: In darkness away from light. separated from God, together etetnally with like-minded unrepentant sinners.
K
No, I don't think so. I think God mourns every loss of a soul. His judgment, which is perfect, and the fact that sin cannot enter heaven, means people go to hell. God's love wants them to go and be with Him, not in hell. Each person makes that choice for themselves. But no, I don't believe God sends/allows anyone lovingly to hell. I believe it grieves His heart greatly.
-
1
- Show all
E
No, you missed the point completely
he was lost and dead because he thought he could do it on his own, he learned very quickly that when we try to do things on our own after we have been given by God it does not go well, and in his dispute, he came back, that’s exactly what happened to me, at no time while I was gone though did I think I was no longer the son or that my father left me
the point is god loves all his children no matter who they are or no matter what
he was still the son
forgiveness of sin is based on blood. The prodigal son still had his fathers blood, the rivers of living water still flowed
again, your teaching law, not grace, you teach a false gospel my friend, your trying to earn salvation by your works. Again you will fail
he was lost and dead because he thought he could do it on his own, he learned very quickly that when we try to do things on our own after we have been given by God it does not go well, and in his dispute, he came back, that’s exactly what happened to me, at no time while I was gone though did I think I was no longer the son or that my father left me
the point is god loves all his children no matter who they are or no matter what
he was still the son
forgiveness of sin is based on blood. The prodigal son still had his fathers blood, the rivers of living water still flowed
again, your teaching law, not grace, you teach a false gospel my friend, your trying to earn salvation by your works. Again you will fail
E
I have no ignored anything my friend, you can twist scripture however you want, but your salvation by water baptism and all your other works will be rejected by God
yes he was dead, he had no access to Hs fathers help or blessings, he was on his own. At no time did he stop being the son
again, he said MY SON
your the one ignoring that fact, MY SON
a child of God is a child of God, if he walks away, he is not blessed nor does he have access through prayer of Gods help, he will fail, and if he is a true son he will return with humility (if he does not die first) but even if he dies, his father will still go get him
thats what fathers do. I can only assume you have no kids, Or your father did not love you that way, I pray if you do have kids you do not treat the, the way you demands god treats you
yes he was dead, he had no access to Hs fathers help or blessings, he was on his own. At no time did he stop being the son
again, he said MY SON
your the one ignoring that fact, MY SON
a child of God is a child of God, if he walks away, he is not blessed nor does he have access through prayer of Gods help, he will fail, and if he is a true son he will return with humility (if he does not die first) but even if he dies, his father will still go get him
thats what fathers do. I can only assume you have no kids, Or your father did not love you that way, I pray if you do have kids you do not treat the, the way you demands god treats you
-
1
- Show all
E
The church must tell all people they are sinners, for all have sinned and fall short
the church does not need to differentiate induvidual sins, because it does not matter what sins they commit, all have sinned,
the law shows us we are sinners, as sinners, we are cursed, we are lost, the only way to salvation is the blood of the lanb (the cross)
once a person is saved, God will work on their personal sin issues.
we are not to judge the world but help it to get saved, when you alienate people because of certain sin, yoru not going to draw them to God your gonna push them farther
they can’t stop those sins as an unbeliever unless they are not really deep seated sins, and even as a new believer those deep seeded sins will not just stop over night, they are babes only capable of milk, they need to mature before we can give them meat,
to many people come to god and are judged because they can not stop certain sins overnight, and get tossed out, and we wonder why they never find healing
god will hold us accountable for these major crimes against his love and his gospel.
the church does not need to differentiate induvidual sins, because it does not matter what sins they commit, all have sinned,
the law shows us we are sinners, as sinners, we are cursed, we are lost, the only way to salvation is the blood of the lanb (the cross)
once a person is saved, God will work on their personal sin issues.
we are not to judge the world but help it to get saved, when you alienate people because of certain sin, yoru not going to draw them to God your gonna push them farther
they can’t stop those sins as an unbeliever unless they are not really deep seated sins, and even as a new believer those deep seeded sins will not just stop over night, they are babes only capable of milk, they need to mature before we can give them meat,
to many people come to god and are judged because they can not stop certain sins overnight, and get tossed out, and we wonder why they never find healing
god will hold us accountable for these major crimes against his love and his gospel.
K
Why do I feel like I'm playing a game of "I know you are, but what am I?" with several posters here?
I didn't fail to understand, it was just oddly stated "and loves them so much that HE allows them to spend eternity ..." If you meant to say it differently then fine. I just pointed out how odd that comment was. I don't believe God sends people to hell either. But He doesn't lovingly allow them to go to hell either. Just an odd turn of phrase you used.
I don't expect you to, nor does it bother me that you don't, understand that I am saved solely by God's grace through my faith in Jesus Christ, and as result of.y salvation and faith I do work for the glory of God. You have a very perverse view of legalism when you call everyone who advocates obeying God's command to "go and sin no more" legalism.
God does love His children, but only those that are born from above and are obedient to Him are His chidren.
like every good Father, God wants His children to be obedient, not to live in rebellion and sin like the heathen. His children will take the narrow way through the difficult gate. Unrepentant sinners are not children of God which is why the unrepentant sinners take the broad way to eternal destruction.
God does love His children, but only those that are born from above and are obedient to Him are His chidren.
like every good Father, God wants His children to be obedient, not to live in rebellion and sin like the heathen. His children will take the narrow way through the difficult gate. Unrepentant sinners are not children of God which is why the unrepentant sinners take the broad way to eternal destruction.