Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[kaylagrl]

and I agreed with your post many posts ago if you remember. Yes, sexual are harder to overcome and even harder if you continue to identify with the sin instead of Christ. Yes, Jesus takes us just as we are but HE changes us. I'm sorry you don't see a lot being preached here what I do see are gay activists trolling the site. the guy is forty years old not 15 or 25.

Well brother, I'm sorry you see it that way. You've known me long enough and know my stand more that most here and certainly more than the newbies commenting here. I sense a different spirit coming from Mark. We'll agree to disagree. But I don't see a lot of "love the sinner, hate the sin" going on. I don't see love here at all. JMO

 

[DADZ]

This is what makes them mad (or glad?) when the see words like this they go crazy and attack, they can’t believe their ears. They forget david and bathseba and her husband (adultry and murder) they forget paul and Peter, and abraham, and all these sinners who are called by God as his children

of course we have to remember too, these people did confess and they did admit their sin before God, they did not go out and spit in Gods face and say I do not care what you think agod I am gonna live my life as I please (licentiousness) and they sought help

the pharisee attitude will live in every age I believe, it’s sad

God also attributed it to Abraham as being rightous because he BELIEVED, not because he obeyed. And Jesus says "belieive in me", not "obey my commands" and you will be saved.

Its a pity, these guys, its us who have to go and try to clean up and repair the mess and destruction they make.
When secular people want to criticize the church, these guys give them plenty of ammunition.

 

[DADZ]

I can, I grew up in that church, it affected my christian life and made me hate the church, I left god and the church for 5 years and still have anger for the legalism that almost destroyed me

its what gives me the passion to fight hard against it,

But dont forget, Jesus instructs us to love our enemies too. Thats the ONE BIG lesson those guys dont understand, so dont you fall for it too. Remember, EVERYTHING that happened to you happened for a reason in Gods plan for you. It eventually led you to the truth and saving grace of God. So be thankful, not angry. Give the anger to God, he will deal with them ever so more harshly than you can, if He even does at all.

Dont forget, their sins have been forgiven too. Dont get me wrong though, we still have to put on the breastplate of truth and battle their words of lies.

 

[DADZ]

Yes it does. If you're living like the devil, hating other people (which is apparent from your messages), enjoy living for the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, the pride of life, the things of the world, you're not saved, you've been given over to a reprobate mind, a depraved mind, and you're in league with Satan. Saying a "sinners prayer" once in your life and pretending you've repented won't save you because you're on the same broad way you were always on.

so, r u saying Im not saved cuz I sin, or because I havent said a genuine sinners prayer? hahhaha, in a formal debate you would be a piece of fried chicken and I would be gobbling you up with mashed potatoes and gravy.

Ive been going to a prison ministry church, and for the most part, people there arent overly judgemental. But I see the Pharisees are alive and well after all. LOL,

YOU = pharisee
what a waste, dont u c that your judgemental legalism doesnt help anyone? Does it make you feel morally and religously superiorer?

 

[DADZ]

This is what makes them mad (or glad?) when the see words like this they go crazy and attack, they can’t believe their ears. They forget david and bathseba and her husband (adultry and murder) they forget paul and Peter, and abraham, and all these sinners who are called by God as his children

of course we have to remember too, these people did confess and they did admit their sin before God, they did not go out and spit in Gods face and say I do not care what you think agod I am gonna live my life as I please (licentiousness) and they sought help

the pharisee attitude will live in every age I believe, it’s sad

Im wondering what makes these guys so blind? I came in here hoping to discuss a few topics, like hell, and I get this garbage spewing like foam out of the mouths of wild wolves in sheeps clothing. hahah, I like that lol.

I dont know if they are saved or not, not my place to judge that, but I can tell you one thing for a fact, they are very, very angry, and that my friend, is them living in sin big time. Not that I care they are living in sin, thats their problem

The way I see it, sin has at least two components to it. U know how people say all sin is equal, yet we also know some sins are worse?
thats because they all have an equal effect on our inability to have a sinless relationship with God. But now that Jesus has paid the price, that part no longer matters.
But the other component, is why and how sin affects us in our fleshly lives. Like, if I kill someone, how much heartaches that causes others, vs if I steal a candy bar, (yea, jerry in boston, I have stolen candy, am I going to hell now?) it has much less affect.

So, because we are admonished to LOVE now, and not , "thou shalt not", it puts our focus on the right direction, and by doing that, sin naturally decreases.

These guys focus on sin is addressed by Paul, when he says focusing on the law causes us to sin more

NOW, about that hell topic. lol, I dont believe God sends people to hell. What u think?

,

 

[Gideon300]

I too have had the same experience with family members who were married and suffered from homosexuality. it was not he was gay, but two of his uncles sexually abused him at a very young age. He was married with two children and a JW's minister. He divorced his wife and went full into the gay lifestyle and was one of the first 100 to contract HIV in the early setting of SF. No one would even go see him( mother or Father) they were afraid because no one really knew at this time how it was contracted.

I led him to Christ before he died. He died alone no mirrors in his room and no one telling him what was going on. all nurses were dressed in PPE and he had no answers. at that moment he asked me, " how do I look"? I told him the truth, it was one of the hardest things to do at that time. Doug, you look like the man who is about to die. He said, " I thought so, but no one will tell me" .

I told him of Jesus and how HE can take away the fear and forgive him and save him if he would ask him to do so. He said "that seems pretty simple", yes it is. Doug breathed his last BREATH ON THIS SIDE and his first eternal breath on the other side.


When I where those like mark tell us how unloving we are when I and many of us were in SF and Oakland at hospitals trying to reach these dying gay men in such a reckless way to tell me what I need to do today when I have SEEN MANY OVER THE YEARS and today come out of sexual addiction, and sexual idolatry, perversion, drunkness, ADULTERY, AS I TOO WAS saved by the Lord and set free think they hAVE more understanding then I or others is nothing but pride.

Just like COVID-19 I and many others did not stay home and pray for people only, we went to them. Loved them by demonstrating it.

Unfortunately many churches cover up sin because they don't want the scandal. How often have big names been caught out either by sex or money? And too often it is covered up at first. I can understand those who think homosexuals are treated less fairly than adulterers. It should not be so, but it is what it is. And it does not excuse sinful behaviour. As you say, Lord Jesus came to set the captives free. It would be wonderful if more Christians realised this and lived in the light of it.

 

[Gideon300]

Im wondering what makes these guys so blind? I came in here hoping to discuss a few topics, like hell, and I get this garbage spewing like foam out of the mouths of wild wolves in sheeps clothing. hahah, I like that lol.

I dont know if they are saved or not, not my place to judge that, but I can tell you one thing for a fact, they are very, very angry, and that my friend, is them living in sin big time. Not that I care they are living in sin, thats their problem

The way I see it, sin has at least two components to it. U know how people say all sin is equal, yet we also know some sins are worse?
thats because they all have an equal effect on our inability to have a sinless relationship with God. But now that Jesus has paid the price, that part no longer matters.
But the other component, is why and how sin affects us in our fleshly lives. Like, if I kill someone, how much heartaches that causes others, vs if I steal a candy bar, (yea, jerry in boston, I have stolen candy, am I going to hell now?) it has much less affect.

So, because we are admonished to LOVE now, and not , "thou shalt not", it puts our focus on the right direction, and by doing that, sin naturally decreases.

These guys focus on sin is addressed by Paul, when he says focusing on the law causes us to sin more

NOW, about that hell topic. lol, I dont believe God sends people to hell. What u think?

,

God does not think like you. His judgement is very simple. Is the person before His throne alive or dead? If he is alive, he is already seated together with Christ in heavenly places. If not, he will suffer the second death. There is no second chance. Would you welcome a dead body into your home? Why should God? He rejects those who reject His mercy, grace and love in this life. There is no greater insult to God's love than to reject Lord Jesus. God is love, but He is also pure, holy and righteous. Those who imagine that God will let them off the hook will be greatly disappointed. Those who tell them that God won't judge them are complicit in that person's demise. That's not a fun place to be either.

 

[JerryInBoston]

actually it proves my point. By your own question. You have condemned these people. Who commited these sins you keep harping on

Like I said. You may not like my answer. But my answer proves a point.

You actually don't make sense. Not at all. But, fine by me, go on thinking you do.

 

[JerryInBoston]

yeah I have answered your questions

You may not like the way I answered them But I answered them

Wake up my friend and stop trying to be the victim

LOL zzzzz. You're just a barrel of laughs today.

 

[JerryInBoston]

so what sin is it?

And what makes that sin worse than a child of God whose bessetting sin happens to be struggling with drinking? Or a person who is struggling with sex addiction. be it homo or hetero?

Why are you so interested? I don't celebrate sin like those in the hyper-grace movement.

 

[DADZ]

You actually don't make sense. Not at all. But, fine by me, go on thinking you do.

He makes lots of sense if you have an open mind, which obviously you are lacking

 

[JerryInBoston]

Your legalism has blinded you.

I asked you if WHILE a prodigal son. BEFORE i came back, I was a true believer.

because according to what you say, while I was committing those sin. I could not be saved.

So which is it man.

as for taking the mote out of your eye. Talk about pride..

Hypergrace?

I do not believe anyone is saved just because they said a sinners prayer. True faith is what saves us

So you sirt. do not even know the person your talking to. Settle down. Stop being offended. Take my constructive criticism as a brother trying to help a brother. And listen to what is being said.

Legalism? Not me. Im not burdened by the law, because it's written on my heart, and my yoke is the Lord Jesus's. Your subjective definition of legalism is your problem.

 

[DADZ]

Why are you so interested? I don't celebrate sin like those in the hyper-grace movement.

there is no such thing as hyper grace. Calling it that proves you think like an idiot. and we dont celebrate sin, you have to think that in order to feeel superior, its called religous pride, a sin.

 

[JerryInBoston]

Your legalism has blinded you.

I asked you if WHILE a prodigal son. BEFORE i came back, I was a true believer.

because according to what you say, while I was committing those sin. I could not be saved.

So which is it man.

as for taking the mote out of your eye. Talk about pride..

Hypergrace?

I do not believe anyone is saved just because they said a sinners prayer. True faith is what saves us

So you sirt. do not even know the person your talking to. Settle down. Stop being offended. Take my constructive criticism as a brother trying to help a brother. And listen to what is being said.

When you read the parable of the prodigal son, at what point in that parable do you see that he repented and was saved?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God also attributed it to Abraham as being rightous because he BELIEVED, not because he obeyed. And Jesus says "belieive in me", not "obey my commands" and you will be saved.

Its a pity, these guys, its us who have to go and try to clean up and repair the mess and destruction they make.
When secular people want to criticize the church, these guys give them plenty of ammunition.

Thats why it is such a powerful tool of Satan, and people fall hook line and sinker

 

[kaylagrl]

Why are you so interested? I don't celebrate sin like those in the hyper-grace movement.

Please stop. EG is in good standing here at CC and has been here for many years. He doesn't believe in hyper grace any more than I do. But I believe in grace, grace that is greater than all our sins. And just because some people struggle does not mean God gives up on them, just because you might. There are people who take the long road home. Your job and mine is pray for them, support them and uplift them. Keep sharing the truth, in LOVE and don't give up.

A friend who my father met at work is an example. Around church but hadn't yet surrendered. My father remained his friend, kept asking him to church, kept sharing the truth. One night in the early hours of the morning, this man called my father. He told him he had a gun in his hand, his wife had left and taken the kids. He was going to commit suicide. But he said to my father "Only one person came to mind that I might call, one person who's words kept coming to me, it was you." My father jumped out of bed and that night that man came to the Lord. Has he had struggles, yes. But he is still serving the Lord today.

God's grace is far greater, deeper and wider than we can ever imagine. None of us has the right to turn anyone away. We share the truth, we don't stop and if that person doesn't want to hear it, we take it prayer. We don't ever give up until their last breath. We intercede. How many children have/ will gain heaven because of a mother who never gave up but stayed on her knees in prayer. That homosexual is someones son, brother, uncle. Perhaps they are praying someone will reach them. The attitude I see here, I don't see how it would compel anyone to enter the church doors. It's sad. I've felt convicted of this lately and then this thread. I'm greatly discouraged.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But dont forget, Jesus instructs us to love our enemies too. Thats the ONE BIG lesson those guys dont understand, so dont you fall for it too. Remember, EVERYTHING that happened to you happened for a reason in Gods plan for you. It eventually led you to the truth and saving grace of God. So be thankful, not angry. Give the anger to God, he will deal with them ever so more harshly than you can, if He even does at all.

Dont forget, their sins have been forgiven too. Dont get me wrong though, we still have to put on the breastplate of truth and battle their words of lies.

Thanks bro

I was saved at around 7 years of Age. The grace of God is what kept me from killing myself when I was a prodigal.

I am not angry at them, I am angry at the theology. And what it does to the character of God and his church.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

so, r u saying Im not saved cuz I sin, or because I havent said a genuine sinners prayer? hahhaha, in a formal debate you would be a piece of fried chicken and I would be gobbling you up with mashed potatoes and gravy.

Ive been going to a prison ministry church, and for the most part, people there arent overly judgemental. But I see the Pharisees are alive and well after all. LOL,

YOU = pharisee
what a waste, dont u c that your judgemental legalism doesnt help anyone? Does it make you feel morally and religously superiorer?

a person who comes to a belief out of pure fear lacks true faith. They are just coming in order to prevent themselves from being hurt.

Thats why God said to be a light, to love, and in only this way can we draw people to God.

Its sad after 2000 years people still think they have the right to bring people through fear to Christ. WHo himself said I came not to judge but to save.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Im wondering what makes these guys so blind? I came in here hoping to discuss a few topics, like hell, and I get this garbage spewing like foam out of the mouths of wild wolves in sheeps clothing. hahah, I like that lol.

I dont know if they are saved or not, not my place to judge that, but I can tell you one thing for a fact, they are very, very angry, and that my friend, is them living in sin big time. Not that I care they are living in sin, thats their problem

The way I see it, sin has at least two components to it. U know how people say all sin is equal, yet we also know some sins are worse?
thats because they all have an equal effect on our inability to have a sinless relationship with God. But now that Jesus has paid the price, that part no longer matters.
But the other component, is why and how sin affects us in our fleshly lives. Like, if I kill someone, how much heartaches that causes others, vs if I steal a candy bar, (yea, jerry in boston, I have stolen candy, am I going to hell now?) it has much less affect.

So, because we are admonished to LOVE now, and not , "thou shalt not", it puts our focus on the right direction, and by doing that, sin naturally decreases.

These guys focus on sin is addressed by Paul, when he says focusing on the law causes us to sin more

NOW, about that hell topic. lol, I dont believe God sends people to hell. What u think?

,

Even in the law All sin condemns, If you just stumble in one area your cursed

However some sins effect society more than others. And God gave a harsher punishment for those sins.

Sadly, some people take these more dangerous sins are fatal, and as long as they do not do these they are ok. And as a result. They judge people who have these sins. Which in my view they must, Otherwise your own sins are their creeping at the door. waiting to judge you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God does not think like you. His judgement is very simple. Is the person before His throne alive or dead? If he is alive, he is already seated together with Christ in heavenly places. If not, he will suffer the second death. There is no second chance. Would you welcome a dead body into your home? Why should God? He rejects those who reject His mercy, grace and love in this life. There is no greater insult to God's love than to reject Lord Jesus. God is love, but He is also pure, holy and righteous. Those who imagine that God will let them off the hook will be greatly disappointed. Those who tell them that God won't judge them are complicit in that person's demise. That's not a fun place to be either.

I think you misread his post. Please try again