How to be guaranteed heaven?

Chester · Jun 27, 2021

Interesting! I failed to find the word losable or unlosable associated with eternal life anywhere in my KJV. But I did find a lot of promises of eternal life to all those who believe in Jesus - PTL!

Oh, and by the way -- I will not take you up on the idea of believing for even a second that unbelief will get me to heaven. I prefer to believe in Jesus Christ and to keep my assurance of salvation.

MatthewKJV · Jun 30, 2021

@Jocund
Ezekiel 18:20 “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
2 Chronicles 6:36 “there is no man which sinneth not”
=> The souls of everyone who hasn't received eternal life: These people are dead.
=> The only souls who are alive are people who have received eternal life by belief.
John 11:26 “whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die”
=> This promise is of never dying spiritually: Not never dying physically.
=> People who believed in Jesus it doesn't stop them from dying physically.
whosoever liveth are people who are alive physically.
“The soul that sinneth, it shall die”: whoever lives spiritually are people who have received eternal life.

"colon punctuation" (google | wikipedia.org)
"A colon often precedes an explanation, a list, or to introduce a quoted sentence."

John 11:25-26 “he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.”
A) He that believes in me though he was dead spiritually shall live spiritually: and whoever lives physically and believes in me shall never die spiritually.
B) He that believes in me though he was dead physically shall live physically: and whoever lives physically and believes in me shall never die spiritually.
A) believes that after the colon verse 26 is an explanation of verse 25.
B) believes that after the colon verse 26 is a different promise than verse 25.
A) is supported by scripture. (verse 25, John 6:47, Ezekiel 18:20, John 5:24, John 10:28, Matthew 7:14, John 3:36, 2 Corinthians 6:2, 1 John 5:11-13, ...)

MatthewKJV · Jun 30, 2021

@Dino246
"In the 7 minutes youtube video "the bible way to heaven sanderson1611" what is being said is bad material because it's Steven Anderson the bad gospel representative who's saying it."
That is an ad hominem.
You did not address the content.
________________________________________________
@Chester
The bible also doesn't use the words for example "trinity", "temporary", "relationship", etc.
That doesn't mean these things don't exist!
You acknowledged that Jesus says the possession of eternal life which his sheep have can never be lost.
(his sheep the eternal life he gives them is unlosable eternal life once they have it they can never perish)
John 10:28 “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish”
This unlosable everlasting life which you acknowledged Jesus gives to his sheep;
Jesus says that it is precisely what he gives to whosoever;
John 11:26 “whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die”
=> Nobody is given an everlasting life that is losable.
=> The only everlasting life Jesus gives is unlosable!
John 3:16 “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”
John 3:18 “he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed”
=> You have not believed yet that you have everlasting life.
I beg you to believe, even for one second. For what it's worth know that I would sincerely appreciate knowing that you did.

Dino246 · Jun 30, 2021

MatthewKJV said:

Nor will I; I won't give Stephen Anderson any more attention than he already gets.

I did not say it is bad material; I said he is a poor representative of the gospel. I merely informed you of that and encouraged you to find better material; that is, good material from a better source. While it was an ad hominem remark, it was not presented as a refutation of his material, so it is not fallacious.

Let's move on.

Jocund · Jul 1, 2021

MatthewKJV said:

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: [<-- colon] he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: [<-- colon] And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" - John 11:25-26 KJV

KJV parses John 11:25-26 with two colons. The first colon is an explanation to initial independent clause. The second colon is also an explanation to the initial independent clause. These are separate conditions relative to the initial independent clause "I am the resurrection, and the life". Other translations avoid this potential confusion by using a semi-colon or restructuring the sentence.

The structure is equivalent to:
"A" therefore "B". "A" therefore "C".

Not:
"B" therefore "C".

I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live
AND
I am the resurrection, and the life: whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

MatthewKJV said:

Or C) he that believes in me though he was dead spiritually shall live spiritually and whoever lives spiritually and believes in me shall never die spiritually.
Or D) he that believes in me though he was dead physically shall live spiritually and whoever lives physically and believes in me shall never die spiritually.
Or E) he that believes in me though he was dead physically shall live spiritually and whoever lives spiritually and believes in me shall never die spiritually.

There are 16 total possible combinations if we consider all configurations, but "spiritual life" is the necessary conclusion of the clauses therefore only A,C,D,&E are possible. It's probably more productive to look at this in terms of the spiritual incorruptible body and natural corruptible body.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." - 1 Corinthians 15:22 KJV

"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven." - 1 Corinthians 15:42-47 KJV

"A" therefore "B". "A" therefore "C".

I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live
AND
I am the resurrection, and the life: whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.

he that believeth in me, though he were dead [in the natural or spiritual body], yet shall he live [in the spiritual body] AND whosoever liveth [in the natural or spiritual body] and believeth in me shall never die [in the spiritual body].

Of the four possible configurations, none of them negates salvation after death and half of them are favourable to a salvation after death interpretation.

"he that believeth in me, though he were dead [in the natural body], yet shall he live [in the spiritual body]"

Jocund · Jul 1, 2021

MatthewKJV said:

Let's look at the passages you recommended:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life." - John 6:47 KJV

This does not rule out salvation after death.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him." - Ezekiel 18:20 KJV

This does not include the NT context of forgiveness of sin through Jesus Christ.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." - John 5:24 KJV

This does not rule out salvation after death.

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." - John 10:28 KJV

This does not rule out salvation after death.

"Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." - Matthew 7:14 KJV

This does not rule out salvation after death.

"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." - John 3:36 KJV

This does not rule out salvation after death.

"(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)" - 2 Corinthians 6:2 KJV

This does not rule out salvation after death.

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." - 1 John 5:11-13 KJV

This does not rule out salvation after death either.

Again... this is not to say that the possibility of salvation after death is necessarily true. Only that the interpretation is consistent with scripture without contradiction. In scripture we observe individuals that are conscious after bodily death. What is preventing them from repenting and turning to Christ in that state? Is there any scripture at all that points to this concept as improbable, implausible, or impossible? If not, why would we assume that a person that goes to Hades necessarily goes to the Lake of Fire?

H3n0515 · Jul 1, 2021

If you cannot find it here it doesn't matter where you end up when you die...

H3n0515 · Jul 1, 2021

Galatians 3:20

No mediator is necessary
God is One

What does this mean, functionally?
Is it possible there is only one essence to all reality?

In John 17:20-26 Jesus prays that you find this oneness...
He says this is the proof he was sent by the one

Dino246 · Jul 1, 2021

H3n0515 said:

Unfortunately, you have taken the words of Galatians 3:20 from their context and altered the meaning. Sound hermeneutical method involves looking at the text to determine the subject (firstly) and the meanings of the words used (secondarily). Paul isn't writing about "one essence to all reality" at all; he's writing about the relationship and distinction between the law and the promise.

Gal. 3:19-21 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions under the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. A mediator, however, does not represent just one party, but God is one.

One what? One party! One of two parties between which is a mediator. What does the mediator "mediate"? In this case, the law. This passage has nothing to do with "one essence to all reality".

Ogom · Jul 1, 2021

H3n0515 said:

the one who believes truly, walks with Him (the Spirit/Christ) more and more (daily), becomes more and more at-one with the Spirit, brings the Kingdom more and more into their life.

God is Light and in Him is no darkness AT ALL.

21that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one—…

Chester · Jul 1, 2021

@Chester
The bible also doesn't use the words for example "trinity", "temporary", "relationship", etc.
That doesn't mean these things don't exist!
You acknowledged that Jesus says the possession of eternal life which his sheep have can never be lost.
(his sheep the eternal life he gives them is unlosable eternal life once they have it they can never perish)
John 10:28 “I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish”
This unlosable everlasting life which you acknowledged Jesus gives to his sheep;
Jesus says that it is precisely what he gives to whosoever;
John 11:26 “whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die”
=> Nobody is given an everlasting life that is losable.
=> The only everlasting life Jesus gives is unlosable!
John 3:16 “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”
John 3:18 “he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed”
=> You have not believed yet that you have everlasting life.
I beg you to believe, even for one second. For what it's worth know that I would sincerely appreciate knowing that you did.[/QUOTE]

Every sheep of Jesus who is believing in Him will not perish. Such a sheep has eternal life. Simple!
The person who is not believing in Jesus does not have eternal life.

The above is very simply stated in Scripture. Thus the one who is believing in Jesus Christ can have 100% assurance of salvation.
The one who is not believing in Jesus Christ will not reach heaven, no matter what he believes about an "unloseable" eternal life.

For myself, I am going to continue to believe in Jesus Christ and rest my assurance on Him. I refuse to transfer my assurance to the Calvinistic doctrinal belief of "eternal security" or "perseverance of the saints".

Chester · Jul 1, 2021

@Chester
=> You have not believed yet that you have everlasting life.
I beg you to believe, even for one second. For what it's worth know that I would sincerely appreciate knowing that you did.[/QUOTE]

I have believed and am continuing to believe (and I am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him) in Jesus Christ for my salvation. You are yelling and screaming at me to believe in something else and I am refusing. I will continue to refuse!

I will not believe in a man-made doctrine as a substitute for believing in the atoning blood of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 1, 2021

MatthewKJV said:

what about believing Gods word of salvstion in the gospel ? Seems pretty important if we accept avid word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭

and if we reject his word

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it seems like if we don’t accept the things Jesus preached in the gospel we’re going to be condemned and if we do accept them and believe we’re going to be saved

Ogom · Jul 1, 2021

Dino246 said:

one can learn things through use of logic and methods -- according to our own understandings.

the question to ask one's self when we arrive at an answer this way or that way is:

does this come from the Spirit or have i come/ arrived at this on my own/or with alot of my own help?

if, " now we see through a glass darkly", then how dark is what we now see through? ... and of what variety of darkness?

we can find our way out of these darknesses as we follow Christ (Spirit) because God and Christ are one and God -- is light.

but while we yet dwell in many kinds of darkness (of sin, of lack of knowing, of lack of seeking, of lack of spiritual help in understanding, of lack of experience) we can't say for sure what the truth is always.

we may say, and we may feel we know, and we may -- in ways. but it will be -- in a darkness.

Dino246 · Jul 1, 2021

Ogom said:

one can learn things through use of logic and methods -- according to our own understandings.

the question to ask one's self when we arrive at an answer this way or that way is:

does this come from the Spirit or have i come/ arrived at this on my own/or with alot of my own help?

if, " now we see through a glass darkly", then how dark is what we now see through? ... and of what variety of darkness?

we can find our way out of these darknesses as we follow Christ (Spirit) because God and Christ are one and God -- is light.

but while we yet dwell in many kinds of darkness (of sin, of lack of knowing, of lack of seeking, of lack of spiritual help in understanding, of lack of experience) we can't say for sure what the truth is always.

we may say, and we may feel we know, and we may -- in ways. but it will be -- in a darkness.

All true, but it is unlikely that we will come to the light of truth about a passage when we start with incorrect presumptions about what it is addressing.

Pilgrimshope · Jul 1, 2021

MatthewKJV said:

have you ever tried to let the verses all around the ones you pluck from thier context explain the single verse ?

sort of let the Bible say what it already says to the reader? It would change your outlook greatly to read the Bible as if you are trying to learn what’s written in it’s actual context so like what would it make you think of you listened to Jesus speaking about salvstion ?

“And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like: He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:46-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what would you think of you took the lords word about things ?

“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus saying things like that above is the reason Paul wrote this stuff in his epistlesListen to Paul’s version since you trust him Christians should believe this part as much as the rest

“For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.

This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:13-17, 19-21‬ ‭

when you try to bypass repentance it actually is contrary to ones salvation because they start to believe “ I’m already saved in my sin and repentance is irrelevant “ and Jesus is saying “ repent and believe the gospel be baptized and be saved “ but hey some say that grace erases it all ……

Jesus says there is no guarantee unless we start believing the truth and repent we have to believe what God said about being saved. And that’s his gift of grace

HatedForNoReason · Jul 1, 2021

HatedForNoReason said:

Unreserved love
We Are The Reason

MatthewKJV · Jul 2, 2021

@Jocund
The soul that sins shall die&everyone sins; they are dead.
The only souls who are alive are people who have received eternal life by belief.
Whoever lives spiritually are people who have received eternal life by belief.
=> Whoever lives spiritually and believes in me shall never die spiritually.
=> Whoever has received eternal life by belief shall by belief get eternal life.
I'm not implying it's the one you subscribe to, but as demonstrated any interpretation as the above quoted one saying that "whosoever liveth" refers to whosoever liveth spiritually is nonsensical.
The promise of receiving eternal life by belief is for whosoever liveth physically.

If men could spend their earthly lives without ever believing&wait to physically die to go to torments dead in hades&once there decide to believe in order to get out of hades;
=> Then many would find the way which leads to life.
=> Matthew 7:14 “the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it”

MatthewKJV · Jul 2, 2021

@Chester
The damnable unbelief of the Calvinist's perseverance of the saints is the idea that God lies when he promises that those who have received eternal life by belief can stop believing (Galatians 1, 3, 5): To rather think that instead those who have received eternal life cannot stop believing, that no matter what; they will never ever stop continually believing.
=> That is not my position. I believe God that they can stop believing.
The damnable unbelief of the Arminian's perseverance of the saints is the idea that God lies when he promises you can never lose eternal life (John 10:28, John 11:26, Hebrews 13:5, 1 John 5:1-4, Revelation 2:11, Ephesians 1:13): To rather think that instead you can lose eternal life&have to keep believing continually in order to not lose eternal life.
=> That is precisely your current position.

1 John 5:1 “Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:”
Those who have received eternal life by belief in Jesus were born in his family.
After you were physically born once you will always be your parents' child.
After you were spiritually born once you will always be God's child.
=> You cannot be unborn.
=> God doesn't abort his children.
=> God doesn't send any of his children to hell. (1 John 5:4, Revelation 2:11)

Ephesians 1:13 “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise”
After you believed: Sealed by God.
God is not going around resealing&unsealing&resealing his own children.
It's a promise!

John 3:16 “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”
Hebrews 13:5 “I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.”
Ephesians 1:13 “after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise”
John 11:26 “shall never die”
John 10:28 “shall never perish”
Revelation 2:11 “shall not be hurt of the second death”

John 3:18 “he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed”
=> God says he that believes not is condemned because he has not believed.
=> You say he that believes not is condemned because he is not presently believing.

I would genuinely be thankful if perhaps sometime you could watch at least 1 of these 2 youtube videos with an open heart:
=> "directions to heaven whole armour ministries" (25min)
=> "the bible way to heaven sanderson1611" (7min)

MatthewKJV · Jul 2, 2021

@Pilgrimshope
Hi man, I did not bypass repentance in that same original post of mine that you quoted&replied to I clearly wrote that you are guaranteed hell if you don't repent.
You missed it!
Guaranteed hell if you don't repent from unbelief. (John 3:18)
Guaranteed heaven if you repented from unbelief. (John 6:47)
Guaranteed less earthly scourging the more you repent from sin. (Hebrews 12:6)

As for baptism, it's a commandment; obedience to commandments is works.
With the exception of repenting from unbelief: Repenting from sin/disobedience is works. (Romans 4:5, Jonah 3:10)
It's impossible to receive eternal life by works. (Matthew 19, John 6:47, Galatians 2:21, Romans 11:6,...)
Acts 2:38
“Repent, be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins”
It does not say be baptized "in order to obtain" the remission of sins.
It says be baptized "for" the remission of sins.
=> "He is wanted for murder."
He is not wanted in order to commit a murder.
He is wanted for the murder he already committed.
=> "He takes a Tylenol for a headache."
He doesn't take a Tylenol in order to obtain a headache.
He takes a Tylenol for the headache he already has.
=> "Be baptized for the remission of sins."
Not be baptized in order to obtain the remission of sins.
Be baptized for the remission of sins you already have.
How to have remission of sins?
Acts 10:43 “whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins”
=> You receive remission of sins by repenting from unbelief.

Mark 16:16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
=> Unbelief is what damns you.

How to be guaranteed heaven?

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