Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[Runningman]

I mentioned nothing about the frequency with which anything happens.
I made no comment whatsoever about frequency or intensity.
What would intensity even mean in this context?

Great, I think it's a fantastic idea that we talk about how to restore the reputation of Christians.
When you start a thread on it, I'll be sure to contribute

If you don't understand the point of my thread, please reread the original post.

Have a wonderfully blessed day.

Sure you did because you're making generalizations about churches and Christians in general. So if I understand you correctly you are saying that numerous churches condemn and judge. That involves frequency and varying degrees of intensity. Something does not have to be explicitly stated to be inferred, whether you were intentional or not. That's just how I understood it.

Nah, I'll be staying in this thread to talk about it so no need to start a new thread. So what's your point after all?

 

[Unearthed]

Sure you did because you're making generalizations about churches and Christians in general. So if I understand you correctly you are saying that numerous churches condemn and judge. That involves frequency and varying degrees of intensity. Something does not have to be explicitly stated to be inferred, whether you were intentional or not. That's just how I understood it.

Nah, I'll be staying in this thread to talk about it so no need to start a new thread. So what's your point after all?

Frequency is defined by the number of occurrences per unit time. For example 3 per minute, whatever it may be.
I mentioned nothing about frequency nor intensity. I made no mention whatsoever about how many churches or Christians are involved in this bahaviour.

So now your true intentions are laid bare: you have no intention to discuss the topic of the thread, but only to moan and whine that the topic is under discussion.
I would like to politely warn you that trolling this thread or attempting to derail it will result in you being reported to moderators and placed on ignore.

@Oncefallen - please be aware of this, thank you

 

[Runningman]

Frequency is defined by the number of occurrences per unit time. For example 3 per minute, whatever it may be.
I mentioned nothing about frequency nor intensity. I made no mention whatsoever about how many churches or Christians are involved in this bahaviour.

So now your true intentions are laid bare: you have no intention to discuss the topic of the thread, but only to moan and whine that the topic is under discussion.
I would like to politely warn you that trolling this thread or attempting to derail it will result in you being reported to moderators and placed on ignore.

@Oncefallen - please be aware of this, thank you

I'm trying to engage you by asking relevant questions to your overall thesis. Your impotent accusations of calling me a troll are transparent. I feel that calling on moderators to examine this will only hurt your credibility.

Seeing as how defensive you've become over a topic you brought up and opened to public opinion, I won't press it. If you change your mind and actually want to have a discussion then I'm here. My door is open any time.

 

[Unearthed]

I'm trying to engage you by asking relevant questions to your overall thesis. Your impotent accusations of calling me a troll are transparent. I feel that calling on moderators to examine this will only hurt your credibility.

Seeing as how defensive you've become over a topic you brought up and opened to public opinion, I won't press it. If you change your mind and actually want to have a discussion then I'm here. My door is open any time.

You are now on ignore.
You do not get to enter the discussion in the way that you did (anybody can see your previous posts) and then accuse me of wrongdoing.
You do not get to abuse in that way.

Goodbye, and all the best.

 

[Runningman]

You are now on ignore.
You do not get to enter the discussion in the way that you did (anybody can see your previous posts) and then accuse me of wrongdoing.
You do not get to abuse in that way.

Goodbye, and all the best.

You'll find that you don't control how others choose to respond.

Yes, God bless you and all the best.

 

[John146]

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You ignore the scriptures on church doctrine. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. Our desire is for them to be saved, however, once saved and they are not willing to forsake their homosexuality, then they are to be dismissed from church gatherings and fellowship. That’s biblical love my friend.

 

[Unearthed]

You ignore the scriptures on church doctrine. Homosexuality is an abomination to God. Our desire is for them to be saved, however, once saved and they are not willing to forsake their homosexuality, then they are to be dismissed from church gatherings and fellowship. That’s biblical love my friend.

Interesting.
So you feel that homosexuals can be saved prior to forsaking their sexuality?

Do you feel that homosexual people are created in God's image, or not?

Acts 8:26-40.
This passage recounts Philip's encounter with an Ethiopian eunuch. Eunuchs in Biblical times were ostracised because of their failure to adhere to sexual norms.
Common cultural understanding of the time would have held that their status as eunuchs barred them from inclusion in God's community. And yet, the eunuch in this passage seeks to follow the path of Christ even as he continues to live out his sexual otherness. He is welcomed and joyfully baptised into Christ's community.
The eunuch's question to Philip, "what is to prevent me from being baptised", highlights that his sexual status is not a barrier to inclusion in the eyes of God.

That, my friend, is God's love.

 

[ResidentAlien]

I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.

So what's the solution? Love everyone unconditionally with no expectations from them? Or stop using the phrase "unconditional love" and make it clear certain things are expected?

 

[Unearthed]

So what's the solution? Love everyone unconditionally with no expectations from them? Or stop using the phrase "unconditional love" and make it clear certain things are expected?

The solution is to not throw stones....

 

[Nehemiah6]

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

The "unconditional" love extends to every sinner. But those who profess Christ must repent. Repentance is the CONDITION for the remission of sins. I hope you understand this fundamental truth.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: (Acts 3:19,20)

This is not man's condition but God's. It is God who now commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30).

 

[Unearthed]

The "unconditional" love extends to every sinner. But those who profess Christ must repent. Repentance is the CONDITION for the remission of sins. I hope you understand this fundamental truth.

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: (Acts 3:19,20)

This is not man's condition but God's. It is God who now commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30).

There are two points I would like to raise in response to your message:

1. It is not our place to judge sinners. It is not our place to cast stones, as Jesus told us.

2. Acts 8:26-40
See message #27 in this thread.

 

[Nehemiah6]

1. It is not our place to judge sinners. It is not our place to cast stones, as Jesus told us.

It is not a matter of casting stones. And it is our place to judge SAINTS (or those who profess to be saved).

 

[Unearthed]

It is not a matter of casting stones. And it is our place to judge SAINTS (or those who profess to be saved).

Yes, it is a matter of casting stones.

 

[Runningman]

So what's the solution? Love everyone unconditionally with no expectations from them? Or stop using the phrase "unconditional love" and make it clear certain things are expected?

The solution is to not enable or coddle someone's sin, but to show them the scriptures that would lead then in the direction of God's will.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The solution is to not throw stones....

I've attended some churches where the unconditional love model was in full force. Plainly stated, the inmates were running the asylum. Before anyone accuses me of comparing gays to "inmates," let me just say it's a figure of speech. There were more than just gays who attended these services. People were yelling and fighting and causing all kinds of disruptions. I know one woman who even had her purse stolen while she was at the altar praying! One of these churches occasionally had talent night. They allowed a gay guy to iip-sync an Abba song while prancing around the platform; the very platform where Jesus was preached.

I agree we shouldn't throw stones. However, too much acceptance gives people the wrong idea. Presumably they're there to hear the Gospel. If not, why are they even there. . .talent night and a free meal?

 

[Runningman]

It is not a matter of casting stones. And it is our place to judge SAINTS (or those who profess to be saved).

Agreed. The immediate context of the scripture that refers to casting stones in judgement of someone else's sins was about literally stoning for capital punishment.

Telling someone not to sin is not capital punishment, malicious, or mean-spirited. It is Biblical and necessary sometimes.

 

[Unearthed]

I've attended some churches where the unconditional love model was in full force. Plainly stated, the inmates were running the asylum. Before anyone accuses me of comparing gays to "inmates," let me just say it's a figure of speech. There were more than just gays who attended these services. People were yelling and fighting and causing all kinds of disruptions. I know one woman who even had her purse stolen while she was at the altar praying! One of these churches occasionally had talent night. They allowed a gay guy to iip-sync an Abba song while prancing around the platform; the very platform where Jesus was preached.

I agree we shouldn't throw stones. However, too much acceptance gives people the wrong idea. Presumably they're there to hear the Gospel. If not, why are they even there. . .talent night and a free meal?

This is one of the most ignorant posts I have seen on CC.
"However, too much acceptance gives people the wrong idea" sums it up perfectly.
Disgusting.
I'll pray for you.

 

[PaulNew]

Funny though this thread is, I would like to encourage everyone to get their eyes back on Jesus.

I've read the gospels a few times now and I'm just reading through Matthew again and its still fresh and alive for me.

Let the Holy Spirit guide us and lead us and shape us and change us as it will.
And if in anything we are in error, the Spirit will show us.
And let us trust God to give us the growth and increase that is pleasing to Him.

 

[PaulNew]

I've attended some churches where the unconditional love model was in full force. Plainly stated, the inmates were running the asylum. Before anyone accuses me of comparing gays to "inmates," let me just say it's a figure of speech. There were more than just gays who attended these services. People were yelling and fighting and causing all kinds of disruptions. I know one woman who even had her purse stolen while she was at the altar praying! One of these churches occasionally had talent night. They allowed a gay guy to iip-sync an Abba song while prancing around the platform; the very platform where Jesus was preached.

I agree we shouldn't throw stones. However, too much acceptance gives people the wrong idea. Presumably they're there to hear the Gospel. If not, why are they even there. . .talent night and a free meal?

Unconditional Love isn't the problem here. Jesus teaches us to love our enemies, and if we love our enemies who shouldn't we love.

The problem is attempting to organize the worship of and love for God, because its an individual, intimate thing.

Jesus says where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name there He will be in the midst, not 20 or 30.

(btw, I wish I'd have been there to see the Abba thing. Lol)

 

[CS1]

I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.

this is a false narrative of many professing Christians.

They pervert the love of God. God has to accept the sin of the sinner and call it love is unbiblical and damaging to the person eternally.

Just as a doctor would not be taking in a cancer patient and tell the person we need to do some serious things to change your condition to cure cancer. Oh NO! How unloving of the Doctor to say such a thing. He had no intention of helping, what a big awful manipulator this doctor is.

The Church of the Lord Jesus Christ is supposed to be a Hospital for sick souls.

Jesus came to set the captive FREE Not make them comfortable in the sin.

Jesus said to the prostitute Go and sin no more, less something worst happens to you. that is judgement ? NO. Jesus is telling you the very sin you were in will destroy you IF you keep doing it!
It is the greatest love there is Truth.

No one is condemning those who are homosexual the sin brings its own torment.

The idea that a church is to accept a person unconditionally means:

Don't preach sin will send you to hell, and Jesus one has to surrender to HIm is the only way out.

Jesus never left a prostitute as one He changed them,
The sick He healed them
The lost HE found them
the Sinner HE saved them!

And finally, in your own comment, you have accepted Homosexualaity as a race of people?

which it is not, it is a sexual sin that has an eternal end that all sin does, it brings death.
Homosexuality is not more a race of people than being a prostitute.

it is twisted in thinking such. Those who agree with that mind-set:

1. those who have gay family members and have accepted the sin as normal
2. they are gay themselves of struggle with it looking to be set free from the guilt of it.

3. Pastors who are openly gay and perverting the word of God and leading people astray.

We do not ask anyone who comes into the church are you gay? , we preach sin will take you to hell and Jesus is the only way out of it.

If the person tells us they are struggling with sexual sin we pray with them and provided godly counsel. Many people who are strait have sexual additions in fact I have ministered to more of those than professing gays.

Mainly because they have pastors who have said it is ok for you to be gay and a Christian.

That is a damnable lie, and that pastor will answer to God for causing those to fall.