Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

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U

Unearthed

Active member
#1
May 18, 2021
200
70
28
#1
I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#2
May 18, 2021
200
70
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#2
Thank you to the moderation team for approving this thread. I was unsure if it was going to be published, so thank you :)
 
I

Iamabeliever

Banned
#3
Oct 10, 2020
107
36
28
#3
Unearthed said:
I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.
Click to expand...
Agreed. iaiah says man is talking to God and says to God kill the sinner. God says
i will not kill the sinner i will love the sinner until he is good. God says to man
your way is not my way, my way is higher than your way…in other words, God is saying
i will tell you what to do, you dont tell me what to do. by the way, i am not gay
either while at the same time i strongly believe that being gay is not a sin.
we are all born differently no bodiies are xactly alike.
 
Kolistus

Kolistus

Well-known member
#4
Feb 3, 2020
538
276
63
#4
Love is not unconditional, thats the first problem.
Second problem is a gay person is not supposed to be a church member to begin with, according to the bible.


1 Corinthians 5:9-13

New International Version
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#5
May 18, 2021
200
70
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#5
Kolistus said:
Love is not unconditional, thats the first problem.
Second problem is a gay person is not supposed to be a church member to begin with, according to the bible.


1 Corinthians 5:9-13

New International Version
I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”
Click to expand...
Please explain what God's love is conditional upon.

I currently reading around the verse you provided.
 
W

whitemoth

Member
#6
May 31, 2021
41
39
18
#6
Unearthed said:
I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.
Click to expand...
I agree with you. I think God is too wise and loving to cast away homosexuals. I think that's something that people do often when it comes to it. We are to learn to love each other unconditionally as we are taught to love those against us. However, there are those that do perverse things with same sex people, and that to me is wrong because they are not homosexuals.
 
DeanM

DeanM

Well-known member
#7
May 4, 2021
549
315
63
#7
The church I attended for years (before it went covid crazy) had a pair of lesbians that attended and the idea was they should be allowed to attend but could not hold a position.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#8
May 18, 2021
200
70
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#8
DeanM said:
The church I attended for years (before it went covid crazy) had a pair of lesbians that attended and the idea was they should be allowed to attend but could not hold a position.
Click to expand...
I bet the church was willing to take their money from them though? ...
 
DeanM

DeanM

Well-known member
#9
May 4, 2021
549
315
63
#9
Unearthed said:
I bet the church was willing to take their money from them though? ...
Click to expand...
Well they got the church for 3 grand and stopped attending. But i ageed that gay deacons or whatever should not be allowed.
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#11
Jun 30, 2015
25,606
13,863
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#11
Salvation is not “unconditional”.

Was there a follow-up?
 
DeanM

DeanM

Well-known member
#12
May 4, 2021
549
315
63
#12
Unearthed said:
I'm sorry I'm not sure what you mean. They gave the Church 3 grand?
Click to expand...
no. they needed money for bills and the church gave it to them. then they left.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#15
May 18, 2021
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#15
Dino246 said:
Salvation is not “unconditional”.

Was there a follow-up?
Click to expand...
I don't believe anybody has said that salvation is unconditional.

In fact I've just said the oppose right here:

Unearthed said:
Yes salvation is a free gift however I do not believe it is unconditional.
If it were unconditional then everybody would be saved and there would be no purpose for following Jesus.

We must have faith that Jesus is who He is in order to be saved.
Click to expand...
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#17
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#17
Unearthed said:
I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.
Click to expand...
I think all too often we hear about it when someone in the church condemns someone else for a sin and silence on the subject when no condemnation was made.

How often is there a praise report for the good the church does or the acceptance the church embodies? Rarely if ever.

You're more likely to hear about it when the church does something wrong. This selective outrage gives the general impression of hostility towards the church from the secular world and it reflects poorly on their community. It becomes weaponized rhetoric and propaganda used to smear the body of Christ.

Therefore, the perception in the eye of the public is that Christians are all unloving. This couldn't be further from the truth.
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#18
May 18, 2021
200
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#18
Runningman said:
I think all too often we hear about it when someone in the church condemns someone else for a sin and silence on the subject when no condemnation was made.

How often is there a praise report for the good the church does or the acceptance the church embodies? Rarely if ever.

You're more likely to hear about it when the church does something wrong. This selective outrage gives the general impression of hostility towards the church from the secular world and it reflects poorly on their community. It becomes weaponized rhetoric and propaganda used to smear the body of Christ.

Therefore, the perception in the eye of the public is that Christians are all unloving. This couldn't be further from the truth.
Click to expand...
I agree with you, though I'm not really sure how this relates to the subject under discussion?

Are you implying that the topic should not be discussed at all just because some of the good things that churches do don't get as much publicity as we would like?
 
R

Runningman

Banned
#19
Mar 4, 2020
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#19
Unearthed said:
I agree with you, though I'm not really sure how this relates to the subject under discussion?

Are you implying that the topic should not be discussed at all just because some of the good things that churches do don't get as much publicity as we would like?
Click to expand...
I'm just saying that what you're saying is happening is not actually happening with the same intensity and frequency in your generalizations.

Yes it does happen and we can talk about that, but maybe we can talk about how to restore the good reputation of Christians rather than how they fail?

Your post was open-ended and didn't offer a solution. So what's your point?
 
U

Unearthed

Active member
#20
May 18, 2021
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70
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#20
Runningman said:
I'm just saying that what you're saying is happening is not actually happening with the same intensity and frequency in your generalizations.

Yes it does happen and we can talk about that, but maybe we can talk about how to restore the good reputation of Christians rather than how they fail?

Your post was open-ended and didn't offer a solution. So what's your point?
Click to expand...
I mentioned nothing about the frequency with which anything happens.
I made no comment whatsoever about frequency or intensity.
What would intensity even mean in this context?

Great, I think it's a fantastic idea that we talk about how to restore the reputation of Christians.
When you start a thread on it, I'll be sure to contribute :)

If you don't understand the point of my thread, please reread the original post.

Have a wonderfully blessed day.
 
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