To what extent does the OT apply to Christians?

Blik · Jun 21, 2021

Nothing of the OT has ended but as believers, we have died to that relationship and live unto the living God in a living relationship.

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. (Rom 7:4)

For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. (Gal 2:19-20)

The law also ended as a means to attain a right standing before God (Justification). Although it never was an actual means, only that some treated it as a means to having a right standing before God.

Romans 3:20 (NASB) because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:28 (NASB) For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Galatians 2:16 (NASB) nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Galatians 3:11 (NASB) Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

Galatians 3:24 (NASB) Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

Galatians 5:4 (NASB) You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

I don't think you interpretation of 'died to sin" is correct. We have died to sin in that sin does not cause our death, Chris took care of that. But that does not mean that we must ignore everything God tells us about sin. Paul uses the term "God forbid" about people who will not listen to the Lord as we are told what is sin and what we are to avoid.

Romans 6:2 God forbid. How shall we who are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

crossnote · Jun 21, 2021

Blik said:

It's not my interpretation, it's what the Scripture plainly states. As a matter of fact, it's the theme of much of Scripture...which you haven't given any.

Blik said:

There is more...

Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. (Rom 7:4)

For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. (Gal 2:19-20)

Blik said:

Correct, but we aren't to ignore such passages as these either...

1 Corinthians 15:56 (NASB) The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

Blik said:

Romans 6:1-2 (NASB) What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?

Once again, we have died to sin because we have died to the law. (see 1Cor 15:56, Rom 7:4, Gal 2:19).
I would also mention that our death to sin in Romans 6 is immediately followed by our death to the law in Romans 7

Blik · Jun 21, 2021

crossnote said:

So does this "died to the law" mean we do not think of the law as important to us, but we are dead to the law, in that it means nothing to us? Or does it mean that the law has no ability to cause our eternal death? It is possible to understand these scripture in different ways, and if we agree that all scripture is truth, then it is the truth that the law tells us what is sin and what is not sin and we need to know that.

Jocund · Jun 21, 2021

Blik said:

So does this "died to the law" mean we do not think of the law as important to us, but we are dead to the law, in that it means nothing to us? Or does it mean that the law has no ability to cause our eternal death? It is possible to understand these scripture in different ways, and if we agree that all scripture is truth, then it is the truth that the law tells us what is sin and what is not sin and we need to know that.

What is sinful to one person may not be sinful to another.

crossnote · Jun 21, 2021

Blik said:

I believe it means a whole new way of relationship with God. He makes us His Sons, fills us with His Spirit, so that in our new nature we have a desire to be pleasing to Him and that without fear of punishment.

joaniemarie · Jun 21, 2021

Shlomit said:

Hi Shlomit, The Bible is written for us born again believers but not everything in the Bible is written "to" us. Some commands in the OT were specifically for the Jews like the dietary laws and sacrificial animal prep., who does what and when and how etc... Thankfully the Bible says it was written for our learning

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Romans 15:4

So all the Scriptures OT and New Testament were written for our learning and the way to learn is through the Holy Spirit teaching HOW to rightly divide it. This doesn't come by osmosis lol... We have to invest ourselves to relate with the Holy Spirit asking Him to reveal the truth as we also invest in reading and meditating on the Bible every day.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The law of Mosses are laws written on tablets of stone. They are the 10 commandments that the Bible describes as a "School master" to lead guide and direct His people.

Today in this "New covenant" we no longer need the law to be our "School master" After Jesus died and rose again taking down the wall/vail between God & man.

Ephesians 2:13-15

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to be with us...to guide and direct us into all truth. Now we live by faith in the Son of God who loved us and gave Himself for us. We are no longer dependent on the law of Mosses we have been set free from the law to walk in the Spirit.

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. Romans 8:2

So much more for us to learn but the answer to your question I would say is learning how to rightly divide the Word of Truth and to do that you need the Holy Spirit to teach you. Just as we all do.

Blik · Jun 21, 2021

Jocund said:

I don't go by my or anyone else's opinion if I can help it, what I am after is what the Lord's truth is. It is a matter of being humble before the Lord. When I am wrong I need to know it. Searching for this is why posts disagree. We can work toward truth through these disagreements.

Blik · Jun 21, 2021

joaniemarie said:

I feel absolutely sure that what was written to the Jews, every bit, was written as eternal truths for all people. The dietary laws, sacrificial animal prep, all of it is a picture of the spiritual truths written in stone. God wanted the nations of that time to accept Him as their God, God did not want the nations to think the idols were gods. God wants all His people to learn and accept what God told the Jews as holy words from Him.

seed_time_harvest · Jun 21, 2021

Jocund said:

GOD looks at a person's heart/motivation.
In the holocaust when Hitler was having Jews executed some of the people were hiding the Jews and when soldiers came and asked If there was anyone hiding here they would say no.Some would say that sin won't be forgiven.

Jocund · Jun 21, 2021

Blik said:

The truth of things being sinful for one but not another is from scripture. A good example is in Paul's teaching of unclean things. "Nothing in itself is unclean but if one esteems something to be unclean, it is unclean to them"

peldom10 · Jun 21, 2021

Blik said:

If I can help it?.....wow...
I have not seen a verse in scripture that related to my feeling of righteous...where I have not reached an understanding....with God's help.

In the end times there will be great deceptions........we are end the end times. Therefore, I rely not on others teaching...unless God leads me to accepting that thought. The Bible says...allow no man to steal your crowns. The only way that could happen if we should allow someone...thru deceptions...to cause us to loose them.

peldom10 · Jun 21, 2021

Jocund said:

Wrong interpretation of that scripture reference of Paul. Our individual thinking has no relative reflection on God's word of what is sinful.
We are all equally sinful in God's eyes.

peldom10 · Jun 21, 2021

Jocund said:

What...please explain.

Jocund · Jun 21, 2021

peldom10 said:

"I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean." - Romans 14:14 KJV

Romans... great book, highly recommended read.

crossnote · Jun 21, 2021

seed_time_harvest said:

but then we have ...

Joshua 2:3-4 (NASB) And the king of Jericho sent word to Rahab, saying, "Bring out the men who have come to you, who have entered your house, for they have come to search out all the land." But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them, and she said, "Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they were from.

Exodus 1:15-17 (NASB) Then the king of Egypt spoke to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiphrah and the other was named Puah; and he said, "When you are helping the Hebrew women to give birth and see them upon the birthstool, if it is a son, then you shall put him to death; but if it is a daughter, then she shall live." But the midwives feared God, and did not do as the king of Egypt had commanded them, but let the boys live.

joaniemarie · Jun 22, 2021

Blik said:

Good morning Blik.,

As stated before these things were written for our learning.... not necessarily for our "doing" The many things God told the Jews (required the Jews) to do back then He did not require the gentiles to do. This is an important thing to grasp don't you think?. The question as I understood it was about how to know how to understand the Bible OT and New without mixing up what is for us back then to what is for us and required now. Rightly dividing the Word of Truth.....

This is often a question believers ask who are trying to understand the Bible. What parts of the OT are for us today to follow? Certainly we do not need to know "how" to prepare a bullock for slaughter so we can sacrifice it this afternoon. But knowing "why" God required it of the Jews is for our learning....not our doing. There are many spiritual truths hidden in the OT for our learning. Of that there is no doubt or disagreement.

But we must not mix up the requirements under the old covenant for the Jews and put them upon ourselves as requirements for us in the New covenant.

Clearly there is a New Covenant now that Jesus brought in when He died and rose again. We are now New Covenant believers who follow the Spirit not the law.

O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?Galatians 3:1–3

Blik · Jun 22, 2021

peldom10 said:

There is absolute truth, it exists in God. Relativity does not affect it, relativity is only our perception of that absolute truth.

Paul taught that we must follow our own understanding. That does no mean that our understanding is always only the truth. Paul also taught to be humble before the lord and that would mean that we are not arrogant enough not to be open to constant learning from the word.

crossnote · Jun 22, 2021

Blik said:

Where did Paul teach that?? If he did he would be contradicting God…

Proverbs 3:5 ESV
[5] Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding.

Blik · Jun 22, 2021

crossnote said:

See post 190. Romans 14:14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean.

crossnote · Jun 22, 2021

Blik said:

He never said that we are to follow our own understanding. He was persuaded in the Lord Jesus not his own understanding…

Mark 7:18-23 KJV
[18] And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; [19] Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? [20] And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. [21] For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, [22] Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: [23] All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

To what extent does the OT apply to Christians?

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