This is very sad when a person says such a thing but really doesn't understand what they are saying. Here is the example:
" I stopped believing in tongues 25 years ago, because of what I saw in churches and nonsense like the so-called "Toronto Blessing!"
You stopped believing in the gifts of the Holy Spirit because you saw those who used the Gifts of the Holy Spirit wrongly?
Very profound statement by one who is so educated and well versed in FAITH?
I guess I should just stop listening to any pastor in a church I Attend because of the error of the ones I saw on TV, huh?
Look at this one:
"I did a large paper on the Holy Spirit last semester, which confirmed my reliance upon the Holy Spirit is the right direction to go. But, too much emotional exhibitionalism going on in so many churches, instead of the real leading of God."
Now we are to throw away our Biblical experience because we have a Resume and School paper on the Holy Spirit that confirms your own bias? And you solely now are the Authtcator and chief of the Holy Spirit.
This is pride and just a clear indication that
1. you have not proven the biblical question I have asked those who say tongues have ceased and using 1cor 13:8-10 as the foundational text as you all do, to show me.
Not of you have. why?
2. because 1cor chapter 12 through 14 is the full context of the gifts of the Holy Spirt which you cannot use three verses in the middle chapter of the three to establish a bias that will stand. If you cannot using all three chapters provided the understanding of 1cor 13:8-10 IN 12 or 14 it is not there.
That which is perfect is not the canonization of the Bible. YOU educated types added that in. AND THINK we just say ok because you wrote and paper?
Then when you are called on it you scream YOUR Being mean !!! But as I have said before and have many times recorded many of those here who have said in man other threads about Pentacostels which I have many times posted before to those who have said the following
1 those are using pagan practices
2. it is Hindu chatter
3. the devil gave you the gift
4. used secular information to discredit the supernatural work of the Holy Spirt such as linguist, occult, buffoons on TV, Your own bad experience.
None of that has or does remove the work and gift of the Holy Spirit seen in the holy and New Testament. it has been shown proven AND GREAT EXAMPLES PROVIDED ANS WHEN WE HAVE THOSE HERE HAVE SAID :
send us videos, give me proof, speak in tongues, and videotape yourself. Why? Because you have a bais.
Do you read English at all? The post you quoted, I said I ONLY did not believe in tongues. I most certainly do believe in many gifts of the Spirit, the ones that Pentecostals never talk about. That is why I put some lists up, straight from the Bible, of what God says are the gifts. And the gifts that lasted to our day, are very important. Everyone needs gifts of the Holy Spirit. I told you my husband has the gift of helps, I have the gift of teaching, and a few other things.
I even asked people to write down their gift, except for tongues. I just can't believe a 1900 year gap in tongues was orchestrated by God, esp. when it is mostly garble and nonsense, and doesn't make sense linguistically. It is just babble. I do believe in the truth. A man I knew who converted from Hindi, became a great evangelist. He was preaching at a meeting, and he said 4 words out loud, in the middle of his preaching. He had no idea why it happened. At the end of the meeting, a man ran up from the back, with a napkin in his hand -he asked my friend what languages he spoke. He said Hindi and English. The man asked him how he could speak perfect Armenian (the country, not the doctrine!). The name said in Armenian, "Jesus Christ is Lord!" So, my friend told him the gospel, and he was saved. His wife and son came to the front, and they also believed and received. Every time the evangelist went back to that town, the man would invite him to his house, with more and more family and friends, who also got saved. 27 people in all! Now, that is real speaking in tongues. And the interpreting spoke the actual language it was said in. That's not noisy babbling, that is speaking 4 words in a real language and getting saved. I have heard missionaries on the field sometimes experience this, even Baptist ones. So, I never discount REAL tongues - speaking in a real language to communicate the gospel, and many people get saved. But, not the stuff and nonsense that goes on in charismatic/Pentecostal churches. That is cacophony!
I don't have a bias - I have the truth of the Bible. I watched 15 years in charismatic and pentecostal churches that got farther and farther away from the Biblical way to change - which is to be transformed by the renewing of our mind, as the Holy Spirit leads us. (See also 2 Cor. 3:18)
"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will." Romans 12:2
And right after these instructions, Paul gives a gift list! It is instructive to realize Paul is no longer adding tongues, which I believe died out in the early church, as the message of the gospel was more important than signs and wonders.
"We have different gifts,according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully." Romans 12:6-8
My gift from the Holy Spirit is teaching. I also have the gift of encouragement, which I use all the time in RL and on the internet.
So, no more nonsense about not believing in the gifts. I just don't believe in speaking in tongues and interpretation, done as they are in Word Faith, Bethel, charismatic and pentecostal churches.
I have never said tongues are from the devil, or that it is Hindu chatter or pagan. You are using sweeping generalizations to attack people. I am respectful to beliefs, and my goal is to show people the truth of the Bible, not win a stupid argument. You don't seem to remember what people write. You construct these straw men, then knock them down, and say, "I won!" Sorry, you don't even know what I believe from what you have said here, nor do you know the Bible as well as me, not because I am bragging, but because of all the times I read it, and studied it in seminary.
Really, my concern about tongues, is that this wrong doctrine has taken over Pentecostal and Charismatic Churches, to say nothing of Word of Faith doctrine, which I do think comes from the devil, like Jesus going to hell, and we being "little gods." Talk about terrible doctrine! People are looking for crazy experiences and claim, "That was God!" Nope, it is not. God is not contained within his gifts, he is the giver of gifts. After 15 horrible years in Pentecostal Churches I left, and I found churches that preach what I am reading in my Bible - every day, all the verses. Not just Acts 2 and a small passage in 1 Cor. 12 that Paul wrote for correction.
The way to Christian maturity that I was taught when I went to Pentecostal churches, was the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Get your second blessing and the future will be perfect! But the Biblical way is that we are sanctified in association with the Holy Spirit. It is progressive, and we need to be renewing our minds on the Word of God. All of it.
If tongues was a small part of charismatic churches, and the sermons, songs were teaching the whole Bible, I probably would not even care about this discussion. But, people keep posting that tongues is this, that or the other thing. It is an obsession. Proof that you do walk with Christ. But, people who truly walk with God need no proof. I have been walking with Christ since he saved me in May, 1980, and reading my Bible daily. To say nothing of studying the whole Bible, and theology.
Tongues as they exist today are off the mark. I urge everyone to start reading the whole Bible, daily. Start with 3 chapters of the OT, and 1 of the NT. I also read a Psalm daily, & in German and Koine Greek. That is how to grow! God speaks to us in the written word in this day and age.
Stop telling me I am a liar, and stop lying about me, who you know nothing about. I can only pray that some people will take my challenge and start reading the Bible daily, for the rest of their lives!! If they don't give up tongues, that is their business. But I sure hope they stumble upon sanctification, and learn it is both something God leads us in, and we walk with God in obedience.
