Evolution

[PC123]

I'm a Christian and I accept that evolution is factual if that's what you mean. There is no such thing as an evolutionist in my opinion any more than there is a gravityist.

Have u heard of the term Christian evolutionist? Because you qualify as one... It's not an insult, their a real group

There are more of you guys now... Mostly younger gen... How old are you?

 

[StR0be]

Have u heard of the term Christian evolutionist? Because you qualify as one... It's not an insult, their a real group

There are more of you guys now... Mostly younger gen... How old are you?

I don't think I qualify as young anymore but if you must know I'm in my fifties. Why?

 

[PC123]

I don't think I qualify as young anymore but if you must know I'm in my fifties. Why?

Cool. Im 43. Just asking. I usually come across younger Christian evos. There are quite a few with some decent arguments. I've listened to them... Yours maybe different... Can u give me a brief of how you think it may all tie together? A brief is hard with such a subject but try... I'm not here to debate details. I'm interested in your perspective

 

[PC123]

I'm hitting the sack now, it's getting late here.

Until then. I'll touch one thing. Science. Practical science and theoretical science. Their relationship and standards of evidence used, type of inquiry methods used, etc... Cos they are vastly different

I look forward to the read anyway... Some of what you think may be true, who knows...
Who has all of the truth? You? Him? Me? I think neither of us has the whole truth

 

[StR0be]

No worries dear boy, I'd be happy to oblige - that's what I'm here for after all!
God's amazing plan is to make man in His image. He saw mankind, blessed them, and told them to fill the earth. They did this and then He commenced His 6 days of creation commencing with Adam and Eve. We are currently coming to the end of day six when Jesus will return. It's probably best if you ask more specific questions or I could ramble on about it all day without addressing the queries you have.

 

[StR0be]

Cool. Im 43. Just asking. I usually come across younger Christian evos. There are quite a few with some decent arguments. I've listened to them... Yours maybe different... Can u give me a brief of how you think it may all tie together? A brief is hard with such a subject but try... I'm not here to debate details. I'm interested in your perspective

This is pretty interesting

Not exactly on point but it just came up on my youtube feed this morning

 

[Dino246]

You did

"The land was probably not arranged into distinct continents the way it is today; that arrangement likely came to be during the flood."

I would encourage you to read more carefully. Here is your ridiculous corruption of my words:

"And I am pretty sure a single flood didn't cause Gondwana to split up and float away either while we're at it."

If you want to make things up and claim that I said them, you go right ahead, but I will call you the idiot you are for doing so.

 

[Dino246]

Hey hey hey... Hi Dino...

Whats this about Aussie penguins? Iv been recently observing the little fairy penguins that live down here
I haven't read what has been said but you probably know that penguins are only found in the southern hemisphere, kind of like the southern cross... LoL

Here are some pictures of a family that waddled past me after sunset
Little pocket rocket warriors... LoL. Their birds that can't fly, are clumsy on land but are in their element in water, they swim as well as a fish and predators have a hard time catching one
View attachment 228797 View attachment 228798
They are so cute the way they waddle up together as a family, returning after a day out playing and fishing
And here are two of them cuddled up together in their nest where they sleep and leave their young in the day
View attachment 228799
Lucky there aren't many predators here in the south of Oz
Dingo's aren't here, their up north
Birds don't hunt at night apart from owls which don't prey on penguins cos their too big to swallow whole
Snakes are are threat in the day so the young are vulnerable. At night the snakes aren't hunting

That's correct; no penguins in the Northern hemisphere... the polar bears ate them all.

 

[StR0be]

All quiet on the western front. Doesn't anyone have any comeback?

 

[StR0be]

Fundamentally, I believe God and I take Him at His word. Some statements are obviously symbolic (trees don't clap their hands). Some words have dual meanings. For example, birds can represent evil spirits, likewise wild beasts. However, "Creator" is the very nature of God and, because of His image in us, mankind. It is pretty obvious that the Lord Jesus is the pattern for man. He is the "visible image of the invisible God". He existed before creation. When He rose from the dead, He still had a body. Before I could accept evolution, guided or not, I'd have to see the evidence in God's word.

Evolution was the idea of godless men, not taken from God's word. It does not affect the issue of salvation. It does have an impact on unbelievers. I've tried to reason with atheists. They use Catholicism's idea of evolution to attack the Creation beliefs. So they prop themselves up, in spite of the obvious flaws. It is an appeal to authority, but that is simply a mark of the hypocrisy of most atheists. They'll condemn what they see as logical fallacies but use them constantly. I've had enough discussions to enable me to arrive at that conclusion.

I think Job was pre-Adamic. Satan was in heaven at the time.

 

[StR0be]

Job was born and Job was created. How do you explain this creation other than by the use of a natural process of birth?



"For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham." - Luke 3:8b

Are you denying the ability for God to make a pile of wood into a tree? I say this because your remark seems to be about abiogensis, which a God guided evolution answers.



The dust (microbial life) was formed into the perfected vessel for the soul. At the point the form was true, the Spirit entered. Man didn't exist until the Spirit had been introduced to the form.



I think you are still hung up on the idea of evolution being random instead of guided by God.

There are different interpretations of "image of God", it can mean: a physical likeness, a spiritual likeness, or both.



Did children of Abraham come from rocks? No, but a rock could be remade into a child of Abraham. Before the form and life of man was finalized, it was not yet man. If I make a statue of something, it does not mean that the thing I capture in image was also originally from a rock.

That last comment should have been here

 

[Mark47Oz]

I would encourage you to read more carefully. Here is your ridiculous corruption of my words:

"And I am pretty sure a single flood didn't cause Gondwana to split up and float away either while we're at it."

If you want to make things up and claim that I said them, you go right ahead, but I will call you the idiot you are for doing so.

Rather than attack and and insult then go for for the jugular with a baseless retort, how about you explain what you meant then.

My understanding of 'Not arranged in distinct continents' to be a single land mass. Aka Gondwana.

And you yourself said the "continents were likely laid out as they are during the flood."

Please explain the process you believe occurred then and the timeline of it too.

I'm willing to listen to what you actually meant since you've taken such great offence.

 

[Dino246]

Rather than attack and and insult then go for for the jugular with a baseless retort, how about you explain what you meant then.

My understanding of 'Not arranged in distinct continents' to be a single land mass. Aka Gondwana.

And you yourself said the "continents were likely laid out as they are during the flood."

Please explain the process you believe occurred then and the timeline of it too.

I'm willing to listen to what you actually meant since you've taken such great offence.

Thank you for your respectful response.

Scripture alludes to the land being in one mass rather than in separate continents in Genesis 1:9, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place and let dry ground appear." The division of that land is hinted at in two different places: Genesis 7:11, "-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth" and Genesis 10:23, "One was named Peleg, because in his day the earth was divided". The former sounds like the mid-ocean trenches, which even today cause outward pressure on the oceanic plates, pushing the continents slowly. The latter could either be more of the same, or could refer to the end of the ice age, during which the land was "divided" by the rising oceans. There are YouTube videos explaining all of these issues with much more detail.

 

[Mark47Oz]

Thank you for your respectful response.

Scripture alludes to the land being in one mass rather than in separate continents in Genesis 1:9, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place and let dry ground appear." The division of that land is hinted at in two different places: Genesis 7:11, "-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth" and Genesis 10:23, "One was named Peleg, because in his day the earth was divided". The former sounds like the mid-ocean trenches, which even today cause outward pressure on the oceanic plates, pushing the continents slowly. The latter could either be more of the same, or could refer to the end of the ice age, during which the land was "divided" by the rising oceans. There are YouTube videos explaining all of these issues with much more detail.

Thankyou. Now you have provided some context to what you're saying.

So, just to let you know, another interpretation of that could be the continental separation we're seeing in Ethiopia. Deep Springs coming forth is a definite thing when earthquakes occur. You see it in both liquifaction and great geysers coming forth.

Having been in New Zealand when the earthquake hit Christchurch in 2001, earthquakes also move land. Parts of that city moved up to a few metres.

This is also in line with the Gondwana theory used in mainstream science.

There is no timeline mentioned if I'm not mistaken. And where timelines are mentioned, everyone makes the same basic mistake. When the Bible says 'in a day such as in the story of creation almost everyone assumes that a day is one full rotation of Earth IE near enough to exactly 24 hours. Nobody stops to think that a day is actually more likely a day in the kingdom of heaven, as that is where God is performing these works. And how long is a day in heaven? Nobody really knows to be honest.

 

[Dino246]

Thankyou. Now you have provided some context to what you're saying.

So, just to let you know, another interpretation of that could be the continental separation we're seeing in Ethiopia. Deep Springs coming forth is a definite thing when earthquakes occur. You see it in both liquifaction and great geysers coming forth.

Having been in New Zealand when the earthquake hit Christchurch in 2001, earthquakes also move land. Parts of that city moved up to a few metres.

This is also in line with the Gondwana theory used in mainstream science.

There is no timeline mentioned if I'm not mistaken. And where timelines are mentioned, everyone makes the same basic mistake. When the Bible says 'in a day such as in the story of creation almost everyone assumes that a day is one full rotation of Earth IE near enough to exactly 24 hours. Nobody stops to think that a day is actually more likely a day in the kingdom of heaven, as that is where God is performing these works. And how long is a day in heaven? Nobody really knows to be honest.

I agree with you on the geologic events; on the west coast of Canada, Vancouver Island is on a separate plate from mainland British Columbia. It moves relative to the mainland at a rate of several millimeters a year.

Regarding a "day" in Genesis: I don't think that theory is valid. It makes more sense to me that, because God was authoring Scripture for humans to read and understand, a "day" is equivalent to an Earth day. It doesn't make sense that God would use a commonly-understood term to mean an unknowable or incomprehensible amount of time while expecting humans to understand everything else that He wrote.

 

[Mark47Oz]

I agree with you on the geologic events; on the west coast of Canada, Vancouver Island is on a separate plate from mainland British Columbia. It moves relative to the mainland at a rate of several millimeters a year.

Regarding a "day" in Genesis: I don't think that theory is valid. It makes more sense to me that, because God was authoring Scripture for humans to read and understand, a "day" is equivalent to an Earth day. It doesn't make sense that God would use a commonly-understood term to mean an unknowable or incomprehensible amount of time while expecting humans to understand everything else that He wrote.

Well, just food for thought, but time was measured more in Sun up and Sun down in early history. A year was not what it is now and the Roman calendar we all know and use was only adopted after Christ.

Soooo our own understanding and definition of the measurement of time has changed over the aeons.

To be Christian is to accept there are mysteries to God, because he is far greater than even the brightest minds on earth can understand.

 

[PC123]

No worries dear boy, I'd be happy to oblige - that's what I'm here for after all!
God's amazing plan is to make man in His image. He saw mankind, blessed them, and told them to fill the earth. They did this and then He commenced His 6 days of creation commencing with Adam and Eve. We are currently coming to the end of day six when Jesus will return. It's probably best if you ask more specific questions or I could ramble on about it all day without addressing the queries you have.

Ye iv heard a similar view, maybe the the same one actually... Its an interpretation of the creation in Genesis.
I think most people take the 7 days literally.
Some people think that its longer. I tend to think this is most probable.
And some think its still in action. Like yourself

Interesting.
I think evolution is real but only on small scale. I outlined some of my arguments above with some pictures.

* The failure to find more Lucy's. We should be finding communities of them but we're not.
* The whole theory sits on Lucy when it comes to fossils.
* The attempted hoaxes that have plagued the theory
* The failure to make any major evolutionary changes to apes or insects in the laboratory.
* The inability to create a cell from nothing and to make different types of cells from one cell.
* Biologists like Dawkins who attacks Christianity don't help. They seem to be on a mission to destroy Christianity
* The way theoretical science has hyjacked practical science, claiming to be the same thing... Its totally different.
* The theoretical should never be taken practically. Its really a hypothesis
* The theory cannot be observed or falsified which makes it a pseudoscience according to Karl Popper who i agree with
* The mathematical probabilities of having a mutation that is successful is just so huge
* Also don't like the way its being taught in schools as a hard science when its not

They are some reasons why i think macro evolution between species is highly improbable

 

[StR0be]

As I said before, I am not a scientist and I have no intention of arguing as one. However, I have no idea how you can say this:

* The whole theory sits on Lucy when it comes to fossils.

Please elucidate. Have you actually thought about the veracity of this statement?
I think it's better to deal with one issue at a time as I'm fairly sure that there are whole books, Ph.D. theses and research programs on many of these topics. Where did you get your information from? It takes more than looking at a few biased websites to get to the truth.

 

[StR0be]

If you prefer we can deal with this

* The failure to find more Lucy's. We should be finding communities of them but we're not.

What makes you think this? It would seem to be nonsense to me. Weren't they supposed to have lived a million years ago? Shouldn't it be incredible enough to find a single one?

 

[StR0be]

Ye iv heard a similar view, maybe the the same one actually... Its an interpretation of the creation in Genesis.
I think most people take the 7 days literally.
Some people think that its longer. I tend to think this is most probable.
And some think its still in action. Like yourself

Interesting.

I'm glad you find it interesting. I don't think any of my views are unique to me and I didn't come up with any of them. I have never known anyone who agrees with me entirely though, or indeed that I fully agree with. It would be great to find some but equally good to find someone who can divest me of my errors. Either way, happy days, Jesus has His hand on everything.