Evolution

[Dino246]

And you're making the mistake of forcing scripture to assert your view. I've seen the doco on that ark replica in the USA.

Um... Scripture is authoritative; however, I am not forcing it on anything. Nor am I twisting it to support my view, if that's what you happen to mean.

Question for you. If what you believe is true, how did

A) Noah gather all these animals given that places like Australia and New Zealand are far removed from the middle East and are separated by ocean?

Nothing in Scripture says that Noah gathered the animals from anywhere. He simply took in a pair of most and seven of some. The land was probably not arranged into distinct continents the way it is today; that arrangement likely came to be during the flood.

B) How were they returned after the flood without leaving trace of them being in Turkey where the ark is believed to had rested?

Migration. I suspect that God had a hand in that, guiding the animals as He saw fit, but beyond that, no miracles were required.

If I subscribe to what you're saying, I can go along with all the animals from Europe, Asia, Africa because these three continents are joined by land. The Americas had a land bridge from Siberia to Alaska at one point so maybe all their animals walked up to the ark as well.

But a kangaroo can't swim. So how do you propose it got there? The Bible makes no mention of angels air lifting the creatures to Noah. We've always be taught he walked them on 2 by 2.

There's no need for a kangaroo to swim. It could have hopped across the land bridge that was available while the ice age was occurring... after the flood.

 

[Dino246]

Ok, sir, I see you have disagreed with my comment but have posted no reason as to why.
No problem, but it would be good to discuss it.
If Adam was the first human you need to answer these questions:

Actually, I don't "need to" do anything of the sort. I will answer your questions because I choose to do so.

1. What did it mean for Eve to become the "mother of all living"? This applies even if you accept the NIV translation, why would she only become eligible for her name when she did even if it does only mean she "would become the mother of all the living"? Would she not have been that anyway?

Every human (with the obvious exception of Adam and Eve themselves) were birthed either directly or indirectly by Eve. It's really not a difficult concept. There's more going on with Hebrew names than we see in the English transliterations.

2. When Cain killed Able and was sent away from the presence of God why would he have been worried about people finding him and killing him? He found a wife and built a city but no one else had been sent away from the presence of God so who did he marry and why build a city?

Yes... Adam and Eve had more kids after Seth. They had kids. We tend to assume that Cain went away and immediately found a wife and built a city, but the text doesn't say that. It could have taken decades for those events to transpire.

 

[StR0be]

Actually, I don't "need to" do anything of the sort. I will answer your questions because I choose to do so.


Every human (with the obvious exception of Adam and Eve themselves) were birthed either directly or indirectly by Eve. It's really not a difficult concept. There's more going on with Hebrew names than we see in the English transliterations.


Yes... Adam and Eve had more kids after Seth. They had kids. We tend to assume that Cain went away and immediately found a wife and built a city, but the text doesn't say that. It could have taken decades for those events to transpire.

That is most gracious of you, thank you.
Unfortunately, it doesn't really address my main point about Eve. Why did this only happen after the fall and wouldn't this have been the case regardless?
Nor does it address my main point about Cain. No one else was sent away from the face of the earth and from the presence of God as it says Cain was. So my question stands.

 

[StR0be]

Um... Scripture is authoritative; however, I am not forcing it on anything. Nor am I twisting it to support my view, if that's what you happen to mean.


Nothing in Scripture says that Noah gathered the animals from anywhere. He simply took in a pair of most and seven of some. The land was probably not arranged into distinct continents the way it is today; that arrangement likely came to be during the flood.


Migration. I suspect that God had a hand in that, guiding the animals as He saw fit, but beyond that, no miracles were required.


There's no need for a kangaroo to swim. It could have hopped across the land bridge that was available while the ice age was occurring... after the flood.

It's not exactly a simple matter to get from Alaska to Australia. But I suppose it could have hopped down to Patagonia then across to Antarctica then it would be a simple matter to get to New Zealand and from there to Oz. The beauty of this theory is that it could have dropped off the penguins and kiwis along the way if it had them packed in its pouch.

 

[Mark47Oz]

It's not exactly a simple matter to get from Alaska to Australia. But I suppose it could have hopped down to Patagonia then across to Antarctica then it would be a simple matter to get to New Zealand and from there to Oz. The beauty of this theory is that it could have dropped off the penguins and kiwis along the way if it had them packed in its pouch.

As far as comebacks go, that was EPIC


And I am pretty sure a single flood didn't cause Gondwana to split up and float away either while we're at it.

Trying to hold the old testament up as authoritative history is never going to end well. But because some stories held within it are a bit shaky, we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater either. We just accept that the events are more localised that we thought or are parables instead.

 

[Gideon300]

Job was born and Job was created. How do you explain this creation other than by the use of a natural process of birth?



"For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham." - Luke 3:8b

Are you denying the ability for God to make a pile of wood into a tree? I say this because your remark seems to be about abiogensis, which a God guided evolution answers.



The dust (microbial life) was formed into the perfected vessel for the soul. At the point the form was true, the Spirit entered. Man didn't exist until the Spirit had been introduced to the form.



I think you are still hung up on the idea of evolution being random instead of guided by God.

There are different interpretations of "image of God", it can mean: a physical likeness, a spiritual likeness, or both.



Did children of Abraham come from rocks? No, but a rock could be remade into a child of Abraham. Before the form and life of man was finalized, it was not yet man. If I make a statue of something, it does not mean that the thing I capture in image was also originally from a rock.

Fundamentally, I believe God and I take Him at His word. Some statements are obviously symbolic (trees don't clap their hands). Some words have dual meanings. For example, birds can represent evil spirits, likewise wild beasts. However, "Creator" is the very nature of God and, because of His image in us, mankind. It is pretty obvious that the Lord Jesus is the pattern for man. He is the "visible image of the invisible God". He existed before creation. When He rose from the dead, He still had a body. Before I could accept evolution, guided or not, I'd have to see the evidence in God's word.

Evolution was the idea of godless men, not taken from God's word. It does not affect the issue of salvation. It does have an impact on unbelievers. I've tried to reason with atheists. They use Catholicism's idea of evolution to attack the Creation beliefs. So they prop themselves up, in spite of the obvious flaws. It is an appeal to authority, but that is simply a mark of the hypocrisy of most atheists. They'll condemn what they see as logical fallacies but use them constantly. I've had enough discussions to enable me to arrive at that conclusion.

 

[Gideon300]

It's not exactly a simple matter to get from Alaska to Australia. But I suppose it could have hopped down to Patagonia then across to Antarctica then it would be a simple matter to get to New Zealand and from there to Oz. The beauty of this theory is that it could have dropped off the penguins and kiwis along the way if it had them packed in its pouch.

Scientists seem to concur that the earth was once one massive continent, known as Gondwanaland. It would seem like that when you look at a map. It may well be that there was no ocean to cross. There is also evidence of land bridges now submerged. The topography of the earth changed dramatically after the flood. So Noah, with hundreds of years to gather animals, did not have a major problem. We also don't know the distribution of animals. It may also be that all species lived within a reasonable distance of Noah. Why not? We just don't know for sure. We don't know when the continents began to break apart. Some believe it was a result of God's judgement at the time of the tower of Babel. If ever I find a conflict between what the world has to say and what the Bible has to say, I go with God's word. The world is controlled by Satan. I expect nothing but lies and deception from every human institution.

 

[PC123]

I think you're talking about the Piltdown Man?
This is another topic that has been debunked over and over again and it's not worth repeating that here, so I urge you just to do some Googling on the issue.
If you can't even get the name right (you said "pitman") it doesn't bode well for the rest of your knowledge on the subject.

Thats right... Piltdown man... Debunked as a hoax...
Its been a while but from memory the attached the jaw of an ape onto a human and claimed it to be a transitional form...
What a joke... And that was what the whole theory stood on for about 100 years

I studied this topic long ago so my memory might lapse on names and terms... My conclusion was that the theory of evolution is false... Its not even scientific, its theoretical science at best.

Now, they've dreamt up Lucy from a few bones scattered across some area...
They have many fossils of apes and many fossils of humans but when it comes to the missing link their no where to be found apart from the imaginations of atheist scientists.

They've been trying now to prove that we came from apes by changing the gnome of apes and producing such a creature...
They have so far been unsuccessful at this... Only producing a heap of misfit mutations. They've been unsuccesfull in producing such forms in flies and other insects as well... Only at the tiniest levels have they achieved small evolution within species, never from one species to another

The Cambrian explosion is another huge dilemma for so called scientists to explain. They simply cannot account for the explosion of life that sprung up in a seemingly small amount of time.

And then u have this "common ancestor" idea. That everything evolved from one cell...
But then how did that cell come into being? Can we demonstrate this idea of producing a cell from nothing? No we can't
Can we create different types of cells from one cell? No, we can only replicate the same cell
So then there is no hard evidence of this

And they are only a few lines of argument from memory... There are many more
For a claim to be scientific it must be falsifiable and observable... ToE is neither

Your generation is being taught lies and their disguising it as science...
It is why there are many fields of pseudoscience today

Are you a Christian evolutionist? Iv spoken to some of you guys before...
I respect how you are trying to harmonize scripture with science but your mistaken...

ToE is not hard science, its theoretical science at best, more like a religion with anti-theist prophets like Richard Darwin...

 

[PC123]

@Unearthed ... You've never heard of the missing link probably because you have been miseducated and sent down the path away from from truth and away from God, as this generation has been

According to wikipeadia
"Missing link" is a non-scientific term for a transitional fossil. It is often used in popular science and in the media for any new transitional form. The term originated to describe the hypothetical intermediate form in the evolutionary series of anthropoid ancestors to anatomically modern humans (hominization).

You see when Darwin came up with the theory there were no transitional forms and so they hurried out to try and find them, especially human ones... After failing to find evidence to support their hypothesis they fabricated ones...

Meet Piltdown man

A human head attached to an apes jaw...
This hoax was fabricated in 1912 and it is what the theory of evolution is founded on and was debunked in the 1950's

Another famous missing link is Lucy

A sculpture made by an imaginative artist with a goal in mind, to replicate some kind of humanoid ape.
She was dreamt up from just a few bones scattered over a large area

The foot is one of the biggest mysteries. Apes have an opposing digit, a thumb on their foot. Humans have no resemblance of this.
Lucy has no foot bones so they have absolutely know idea if she was a capable biped or an ape.
In fact her hip bones had to be machined and grinded down in order for them to fit together.

Many others like Java man and Peking man have conveniently gone missing now so they can't be looked at or trusted...

So in the end what do you have... A hoax... A very big hoax

 

[Dino246]

It's not exactly a simple matter to get from Alaska to Australia. But I suppose it could have hopped down to Patagonia then across to Antarctica then it would be a simple matter to get to New Zealand and from there to Oz. The beauty of this theory is that it could have dropped off the penguins and kiwis along the way if it had them packed in its pouch.

Why would anything have to get from Alaska to Oz? That’s just silly.

 

[Dino246]

As far as comebacks go, that was EPIC


And I am pretty sure a single flood didn't cause Gondwana to split up and float away either while we're at it.

Trying to hold the old testament up as authoritative history is never going to end well. But because some stories held within it are a bit shaky, we don't throw the baby out with the bathwater either. We just accept that the events are more localised that we thought or are parables instead.

Who claimed that the flood split Gondwana?

 

[Mark47Oz]

Who claimed that the flood split Gondwana?

You did

"The land was probably not arranged into distinct continents the way it is today; that arrangement likely came to be during the flood."

 

[PC123]

Why would anything have to get from Alaska to Oz? That’s just silly.

Hey hey hey... Hi Dino...

Whats this about Aussie penguins? Iv been recently observing the little fairy penguins that live down here
I haven't read what has been said but you probably know that penguins are only found in the southern hemisphere, kind of like the southern cross... LoL

Here are some pictures of a family that waddled past me after sunset
Little pocket rocket warriors... LoL. Their birds that can't fly, are clumsy on land but are in their element in water, they swim as well as a fish and predators have a hard time catching one

They are so cute the way they waddle up together as a family, returning after a day out playing and fishing
And here are two of them cuddled up together in their nest where they sleep and leave their young in the day

Lucky there aren't many predators here in the south of Oz
Dingo's aren't here, their up north
Birds don't hunt at night apart from owls which don't prey on penguins cos their too big to swallow whole
Snakes are are threat in the day so the young are vulnerable. At night the snakes aren't hunting

 

[Mark47Oz]

Hey hey hey... Hi Dino...

Whats this about Aussie penguins? Iv been recently observing the little fairy penguins that live down here
I haven't read what has been said but you probably know that penguins are only found in the southern hemisphere, kind of like the southern cross... LoL

Here are some pictures of a family that waddled past me after sunset
Little pocket rocket warriors... LoL. Their birds that can't fly, are clumsy on land but are in their element in water, they swim as well as a fish and predators have a hard time catching one
View attachment 228797 View attachment 228798
They are so cute the way they waddle up together as a family, returning after a day out playing and fishing
And here are two of them cuddled up together in their nest where they sleep and leave their young in the day
View attachment 228799
Lucky there aren't many predators here in the south of Oz
Dingo's aren't here, their up north
Birds don't hunt at night apart from owls which don't prey on penguins cos their too big to swallow whole
Snakes are are threat in the day so the young are vulnerable. At night the snakes aren't hunting

I love those little fellas! Is that on Granite Island @ Victor Harbour?

 

[PC123]

I love those little fellas! Is that on Granite Island @ Victor Harbour?

I had to look up where that is... And wow i didn't know that the penguins went that far north...
Are you near there in SA?
These little fellas were filmed in the apple isle

 

[Mark47Oz]

I had to look up where that is... And wow i didn't know that the penguins went that far north...
Are you near there in SA?
These little fellas were filmed in the apple isle

No, I'm near the Victorian border. So about 350 ish km away. But it's an awesome little spot to visit if you ever make it to the mainland.

I love Tassie too. I must get back there and see more of it one day!

 

[PC123]

No, I'm near the Victorian border. So about 350 ish km away. But it's an awesome little spot to visit if you ever make it to the mainland.

I love Tassie too. I must get back there and see more of it one day!

OK, near Mt Gambier... I'm from Melbourne originally...

You see how the little penguins nest on an island in SA. In Victoria there is a famous viewing spot called Phillip Island.

I think they nest on these islands off the mainland because there are less or no predators.

Birds. I love them. Theyre smarter than most people realise. Maybe even smarter than some people... LoL

Its amazing how their able to come back to the same spot from out at sea. Some have suggested they use celestial navigation.
Maybe they do but what about when it's cloudy.
They must have some kind of GPS navigation system
God given GPS... LoL

 

[StR0be]

Why would anything have to get from Alaska to Oz? That’s just silly.

I'm sorry. Yes, I should see by now that it is always a bad idea to make a joke, only a few people get it, but sometimes the temptation is just too great.
I fully accept the biblical account of the flood and that it happened less than 5000 years ago. If this is the case then the only thing sillier than me for making that joke is the idea that it was global. The point of the flood was to wipe out all the corrupted descendants of Adam and Eve and to set up the sacrificial covenant that would lead to the death of Jesus on the cross to redeem us all. It's all in Genesis but it requires some unpacking before it can be understood. It makes no sense otherwise.

 

[PC123]

@StR0be

Hey there... In the last message I wrote Richard Darwin... I meant Richard Dawkins... Anyway

Are you a Christian evolutionist?

 

[StR0be]

@StR0be

Hey there... In the last message I wrote Richard Darwin... I meant Richard Dawkins... Anyway

Are you a Christian evolutionist?

I'm a Christian and I accept that evolution is factual if that's what you mean. There is no such thing as an evolutionist in my opinion any more than there is a gravityist.