Work Out Your Salvation

[de-emerald]

Yes if you sin less you fear God, in a good way tho. You can tremble with fear when you fear evil because you love God.

If you dont sin at all today you may be really working out your salvation with fear and trembling, it may be just fear of doing wrong which stops you from sinning or you may even tremble as you defeat sin or temptation or the enemy. Ive herd of a person trembling with fear when defeating sin in there life.
Ive also herd a person can tremble with fear being asked to commit a sin they know is wrong. Like scared to steal scared to break the law at the moment there about to go through with breaking the law. Or like a person scared to take drugs etc and being encouraged to. or like when you see a movie when a person is scared to kill someone.

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Not at all. I think that sometimes different versions could express the same idea differently in the context of today's vocabulary and vernacular.

I'm also of the opinion that one should always go back to the original texts to see how it was written back then. I'm just used to ESV. haha

I love the ESV Translation. In all of my personal notes and commentary on the Bible, I've referenced the ESV 43 times. What I like about differing translations is that they not only using a different vocabulary considering the "times," but I have found that some groups of "scholars" can either get things right . . . or wrong. For example, the NLT and KJV are my two favorite translations, but they give a different view on being set apart from the Law/Ordinances as found in Colossians 2:9-15.

I would also add that the context of the Bible as a whole is that of Spiritual Circumcision. When we approach the entire Bible with that particular doctrine in mind, this is the greatest tool that we have to decipher the Word of God.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I think the verse below suggests that we are chosen and destined to be saved before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, - ESV

I think OrphanedRepublican is alluding to the question what was the proof of Salvation of the OT saints if Christ had not come yet. But I state categorically that the saving work of Christ on the cross is applicable for all believers, past, present and future, and it was one time sufficient for all. (i.e. Christ does not need to die twice for humanity's salvation).

Comments?

Hello Magpi89, I agree with you about Ephesians 1, which tells us that we are chosen and predestined for adoption before the foundation of the world, but @OrphanedRepublican appears to take it a step further by saying that we are actually ~saved~ before the foundation of the world (even though the Bible makes it clear that we are saved by grace ~through~ faith).

Of course, I could be misunderstanding him somehow, or he could mean something else altogether Hopefully he will enlighten us when he returns

As far as how the OT saints became saints and how they were actually saved, I believe it is in the very same way that we are, by grace through faith, either looking forward to the Messiah (OT) in faith, or looking back to Him in faith, like we do today.

As for the sins committed by the saints in OT times, Romans 3:25 tells us that the Lord passed over those sins (withheld judgment and punishment for those sins) until our Savior's death/blood could atone for them (because we know that the shedding of blood is required to forgive/atone for sins, and that the blood of bulls and goats is not capable of doing so .. e.g. Hebrews 9:22, 10:4).

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[Journeyman]

Dear Friends,

Thought would like to start a thread with this question: What does it mean to work out your salvation with fear and trembling?

Phil 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, - ESV

Does the verse suggest that salvation needs to be worked for? Does the verse suggest that there are different ways in working out one's salvation? Are we to be in a constant state of fear and trembling as believers?


Do share your perspectives and how does it apply to you?

The scriptures below are self explanatory,

Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD. Psa.34:11 (the whole chapter)

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.....Psa.111:10

Pro.2:1-4 and Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD.....vs.5

The fear of the LORD is to hate evil.... Pro.8:13

And,

Let this mind be in you,which was also in Christ Jesus.....Phil.2:5

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered upprayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared Heb.5:7

On earth, our Lord was separate from all evil because of his oneness with his Father

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

The scriptures below are self explanatory,

Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD. Psa.34:11 (the whole chapter)

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.....Psa.111:10

Pro.2:1-4 and Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD.....vs.5

The fear of the LORD is to hate evil.... Pro.8:13

And,

Let this mind be in you,which was also in Christ Jesus.....Phil.2:5

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered upprayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared Heb.5:7

On earth, our Lord was separate from all evil because of his oneness with his Father

This is exactly right. Having a balanced Fear of the Lord is necessary so as to properly translate the Bible. If we do not properly Fear God, we cannot properly understand His Holy Word.

 

[Adstar]

Dear Friends,

Thought would like to start a thread with this question: What does it mean to work out your salvation with fear and trembling?

Phil 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, - ESV

Does the verse suggest that salvation needs to be worked for? Does the verse suggest that there are different ways in working out one's salvation? Are we to be in a constant state of fear and trembling as believers?


Do share your perspectives and how does it apply to you?

It says ""work out"" this does not say do works..

It could have said figure it out.. fighure out salvation.. Investigate the Gospel message of Jesus and find out / figure out / work out what you need to believe and trust in to have eternal life with God..

Of course We need to believe Jesus ( His teachings ) and Trust in the Atonement He secured by his death on the cross that atones for the transgressions of all who trust in His Atonement..

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Hello OrphanedRepublican, where does that Bible tell us that we are "saved" before the foundation of the world? Are we not declared just by God/saved by His grace when we believe/when we come to saving faith

Thanks!

~Deut
p.s. - you broach an interesting topic, but it has little to do with this thread's OP. Perhaps creating a different thread would be the thing to do? (it would keep this one from being derailed) If you do, please let me know as I'd like to join in

​

Beside it being obvious that God's "secret" which he held from the foundation of the world, one does not come into the world lightly and without a plan, suffer and die only to selectively or "hopefully" be able to save some people, not knowing who might believe or not.

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

 

[wattie]

Dear Friends,

Thought would like to start a thread with this question: What does it mean to work out your salvation with fear and trembling?

Phil 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, - ESV

Does the verse suggest that salvation needs to be worked for? Does the verse suggest that there are different ways in working out one's salvation? Are we to be in a constant state of fear and trembling as believers?


Do share your perspectives and how does it apply to you?

There is being eternally saved, by grace through believing in Jesus initially.

Then there is our response to the gift given if we have been saved.

This is where our life is 'saved' thru continuous commitment to Jesus. Not eternal deliverance.. but daily deliverance from trials, evil etc..

This is where 'working out your salvation through fear and trembling' applies.

Not the way of getting saved eternally, but the response to the gift given. Daily deliverance

 

[throughfaith]

Dear Friends,

Thought would like to start a thread with this question: What does it mean to work out your salvation with fear and trembling?

Phil 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, - ESV

Does the verse suggest that salvation needs to be worked for? Does the verse suggest that there are different ways in working out one's salvation? Are we to be in a constant state of fear and trembling as believers?


Do share your perspectives and how does it apply to you?

The context is " furthering the Gospel " Paul's salvation 'worked out 'for the furtherance of the Gospel. By his example coupled ultimately with Jesus example of humbling himself, to his death on the cross . Even under persecution, this to can work out for the furthering of the Gospel. 'work out ' your salvation for the furtherance of the Gospel , in fear and trembling.

 

[throughfaith]

For anyone that interprets this verse to mean " work for your salvation " or anything else that is some how focuses on sanctification misses the entire point of the letter . Its not about self or focusing on your own walk , making sure your working out , or about not sinning ect . Look at the next verses before and After . Its about selflessness, sacrifice, service and such . For the furtherance of the Gospel .
2Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

3Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

4Look NOT every man on HIS OWN THINGS ,but every man also on the things of OTHERS .

5¶Let this mind be in you,

19¶But I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timotheus shortly unto you, that I also may be of good comfort, when I know your state.

20For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state.

21For all seek THEIR OWN , not the things which are Jesus Christ's.

22But ye know the proof of him, that, as a son with the father, he hath served with me in THE GOSPEL .

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I agree with you that the key point that v12 is pointing to is Sanctification and not Justification. I think the rest of scriptures support a three-part view of Salvation: Justification, Sanctification, and lastly Glorification.

Precious friend, Magpi89, These THREE Are An Excellent Rendering Of
God's Eternal Salvation, Which Will NEVER "be Broken" by man's idea of
a temporary salvation! "Working Out OUR OWN salvation, {Deliverance}
with fear and trembling," is Found In (2) below. Be Blessed!:

God's Very Simple Will:

Precious friend(s), is not the Solution to Confusion recognizing
God's Differences Between "HIS Relationship With us," And
"our fellowship with HIM!"?

God's Will, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE? Very Simply:

(1) God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With those who humbly:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIS
Death {Precious BLOOD}, Burial, And HIS Resurrection, According To The
Scriptures! (1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5 KJB!)

"GRACE Through faith" In The Merits Of HIS
Precious And ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:

All sins Forgiven, HIS Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PENALTY of sin!}
Justification First, And, THEN:

(2) The believer SHOULD do "good works" {Which will NEVER
EQUAL CHRIST's TOTAL PAYMENT For the above PENALTY of sin!},
for Which we Are Created In CHRIST JESUS, to perform for HIM,
having "been Called into fellowship With HIM!" Amen?:

We "work out OUR OWN salvation..." {This SHOULD Be a lifetime of
DELIVERANCE From the POWER of sin!}, DAILY "dying to sin, "presenting
our body a living sacrifice To HIM, Daily!" (Romans 12 : 1-2 KJB!) Amen?
OUR sanctification Within HIS Sanctification {Setting us Apart!}

(2a) Fulfil ALL Of His Law, In "ONE Word: LOVE your neighbor
as yourself!" (Galatians 5:14; Romans 13:8-10 KJB!)

(2b) Study HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided, to show
yourself Approved Unto God! (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!)

"...with FEAR And TREMBLING" ↓
Eternal Results: reward {or loss} (1 Corinthians 3 : 8-15 KJB!),
{↓↓↓ rejoicing IF ↓↓↓}
ruling and reigning With CHRIST, Which Will FINALLY Be At
The Judgment Day:

(3) CHRIST's GLORIFICATION of All "members" Of HIS Body!!
{This Is Eternal DELIVERANCE From the PRESENCE of sin!}
Amen?
----------------------------------
Conclusion:

BIG Differences Between God's Relationship And our fellowship!
Correct?

Precious friend(s): Please Be Very Richly Blessed!

 

[ResidentAlien]

Dear Friends,

Thought would like to start a thread with this question: What does it mean to work out your salvation with fear and trembling?

Phil 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, - ESV

Does the verse suggest that salvation needs to be worked for? Does the verse suggest that there are different ways in working out one's salvation? Are we to be in a constant state of fear and trembling as believers?


Do share your perspectives and how does it apply to you?

"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,"

I don't believe the verse is suggesting works at all. Paul's encouraging them to take responsibility for themselves and their Christian walk; not only when he's present but even more so when he's not. It's good to have pastors, teachers, parents or friends who can help us but they won't always be there. Part of maturing as a Christian is learning to trust God and our own sense of right and wrong.

No, we shouldn't be in a constant state of fear; but a certain amount of fear of what God has the power to do to us is healthy.

"And again, 'The Lord will judge his people.' It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."—Hebrews 10:30-31

And,

"For it is time for judgment to begin at the household of God; and if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And

'If the righteous is scarcely saved,

what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?' "—1 Peter 4:17-18​

 

[Deuteronomy]

...one does not come into the world lightly and without a plan, suffer and die only to selectively or "hopefully" be able to save some people, not knowing who might believe or not.

Hello again OrphanedRepublican, I'm confused. Where did I say that God didn't know (i.e. from the foundation of the world) who would and who would not come to saving faith You continue:

1 Corinthians 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1 Peter 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

The quotes above, for the most part anyway, speak of God choosing, predestining, electing the saints, those who ~by grace, through faith~ would be saved and become His adopted children.

God has known who would come to saving faith from everlasting, but (back to my original question to you) where does the Bible teach us that we are justified/saved ~apart~ from believing, apart from our having come to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ? Is not the very opposite true according to the Bible .. e.g. John 3:16, 5:24; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-9

Thanks again

~Deut

John 20​

31 These have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name. ​

​

 

[2ndTimothyGroup]

Ezekiel 7:13 should put a close on this thread . . . unless we want to play God and decide which parts of Scripture we want to include in the Gospel of Christ. Let's let these seven translations show us the Holy Truth - read the bold text:

[Eze 7:13 KJV] "For the seller shall not return to that which is sold, although they were yet alive: for the vision is touching the whole multitude thereof, which shall not return; neither shall any strengthen himself in the iniquity of his life."
[Eze 7:13 NKJV] "For the seller shall not return to what has been sold, Though he may still be alive; For the vision concerns the whole multitude, And it shall not turn back; No one will strengthen himself Who lives in iniquity."
[Eze 7:13 NLT] "Even if the merchants survive, they will never return to their business. For what God has said applies to everyone--it will not be changed! Not one person whose life is twisted by sin will ever recover."
[Eze 7:13 ESV] "For the seller shall not return to what he has sold, while they live. For the vision concerns all their multitude; it shall not turn back; and because of his iniquity, none can maintain his life."
[Eze 7:13 CSB] "The seller will certainly not return to what was sold as long as he and the buyer remain alive. For the vision concerning her whole crowd will not be revoked, and because of the iniquity of each one, none will preserve his life.
[Eze 7:13 NET] "The customer will no longer pay the seller while both parties are alive, for the vision against their whole crowd will not be revoked. Each person, for his iniquity, will fail to preserve his life."
[Eze 7:13 DBY] "For the seller shall not return to that which is sold, even though he were yet alive amongst the living: for the vision is touching the whole multitude thereof; it shall not be revoked; and none shall through his iniquity assure his life."

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Hello again OrphanedRepublican, I'm confused. Where did I say that God didn't know (i.e. from the foundation of the world) who would and who would not come to saving faith You continue:


The quotes above, for the most part anyway, speak of God choosing, predestining, electing the saints, those who ~by grace, through faith~ would be saved and become His adopted children.

God has known who would come to saving faith from everlasting, but (back to my original question to you) where does the Bible teach us that we are justified/saved ~apart~ from believing, apart from our having come to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ? Is not the very opposite true according to the Bible .. e.g. John 3:16, 5:24; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-9

Thanks again

~Deut

John 20​

31 These have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name. ​

​

I can't understand your question then. A person that is "beginning to believe" is a sign they were safe before they were even born. Before the world was created. That person by "beginning to believe" is manifesting the fruits and works of God that demonstrates their name was written in the "Book of Life" from the beginning.

Many people "believed" and were not saved. King Saul. King Solomon. All the people of Jerusalem that believed Jesus when they saw his miracles. Balaam, wow, he testified of God and believed and obeyed the Lord, yet ...

Me. I've always believed. I grew up "believing." Doesn't mean I'm saved. The heart is deceiving. There are many signs that I am and many signs that I'm not. It's not a process for me. It is or it isn't. My fate was determined before I was ever born. So is everyone else's.

 

[Deuteronomy]

A person that is "beginning to believe" is a sign they were safe before they were even born.

Many people "believed" and were not saved. Me. I've always believed. I grew up "believing." Doesn't mean I'm saved.

 

[Deuteronomy]

I can't understand your question.

I will try again. The Bible tells us that God chooses us, elects us, predestines us, ordains us, appoints us to life, etc., but where does the Bible tell us that we are saved/declared just BEFORE we've come to saving faith

(I hope that does it, because I cannot think of a simpler way to ask this question!)

Thanks!

~Deut

Romans 10​

9 If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;​

10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.​

​

 

[Evmur]

Dear Friends,

Thought would like to start a thread with this question: What does it mean to work out your salvation with fear and trembling?

Phil 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, - ESV

Does the verse suggest that salvation needs to be worked for? Does the verse suggest that there are different ways in working out one's salvation? Are we to be in a constant state of fear and trembling as believers?


Do share your perspectives and how does it apply to you?

You can't work out something if you don't have it, if you are saved you are saved. It doesn't anywhere say or even hint that we are merely put on probation. Imagine "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be put on probation"

 

[Evmur]

Hi Brother,

I almost misunderstood your first sentence. For the benefit of those reading this post, I think it is easy to get carried away by doing works to merit salvation. I think most religions in the world teach or advocate some kind of works-based salvation. But I think you are suggesting the contrary. If I might add, the cause-effect relationship of works vis-a-vis salvation is reversed for the Christian.

But won't you agree that the good works that a Christian is supposed to exhibit sometimes runs contrary to our nature. For example, it is sometimes easier to turn a blind eye to my own sins or the sins of others. Wouldn't this suggest that works sometimes might not come naturally to us as Christians and that some amount of effort on our part is still required.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27
"Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one receives the prize? So run that you may obtain it. Every athlete exercises self-control in all things. They do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. So I do not run aimlessly; I do not box as one beating the air. But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified." - ESV

Of course, one could say that I am enabled by the Holy Spirit to do good works as a Christian but it is sometimes not as easy as it sounds.

Salvation is not a prize, Paul is speaking about rewards.

 

[Nebuchadnezzer]

Dear Friends,

Thought would like to start a thread with this question: What does it mean to work out your salvation with fear and trembling?

Phil 2:12
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, - ESV

Does the verse suggest that salvation needs to be worked for? Does the verse suggest that there are different ways in working out one's salvation? Are we to be in a constant state of fear and trembling as believers?


Do share your perspectives and how does it apply to you?

Work out your salvation with God. It is between you and God to determine what your idols are, what your freedoms are, what your goals and purpose are.

Salvation is a mystery. So don't try to solve that mystery. Instead your sanctification needs to be worked on. But yes, we are to maintain a fear of God.