How We Can Tell If We Possess The Agape of God

[Ogom]

No, your post was a kind gesture toward both sides of the issue, and I appreciate the "peacemaker" aspect of that.

However, one inspired writer wrote, "Jesus never purchased peace through compromise." We must always stand against error, and OSAS is not Biblical

thanks. think i meant it more this way:

.... The righteous endure. The righteous overcome ...

So, let's not clothe ourselves with the dignity of the church ...

Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear.
Philippians 2:12

13. Ephesians 6:10 “Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Perhaps you missed the evidence I presented, which points out the period of time Jesus was talking about and His reminder of the prophesied salvation from those terrible events: (everything highlighted green is a direct reference to the tribulation(70th week of Daniel).

You should probably revisit the 70 Weeks prophecy, because the 70th week was fulfilled from 27 A.D. to 34 A.D.
There is not a single Numerically Specific Time Prophecy in all of Scripture where a "gap" is inserted between the starting/ending points on their respective prophetic time lines....IOW, there's no precedent for inserting a "gap" in Daniel 9.

Matthew 24:15 is explicit that what Daniel wrote about will happen (a very specific future event). Do you even know what the Abomination of Desolation is going to be?

I know what the AOD is.

1. This is a foolish request. It's like telling a man, who claims to be the strongest man, to prove himself...but without using his strength.

No, it's like telling a man who claims to be the strongest man to demonstrate his strength without allowing him to write "2,000 pounds" on a balloon filled with helium.

The day of the Lord comes "like a thief in the night" because everyone whom it comes upon will be unsuspecting. In that passage, Peter calls them "mockers" (2 Pet 3:3). Jude clarifies that these mockers are not born again (Jude 18-19). The OT prophets referred to them as "the wicked" (Ps 1:5; Job 22:30). John describes them as those "whose names were never written in the book of life" (Rev 13:8, 17:8). The day of the Lord will come suddenly upon the ungodly. In short, the Day of the Lord spans from the beginning of the Tribulation (probably triggered by the invasion of Gog [Ezk 38-39]) to the end of the Millennium.

Whenever a prophecy doesn't fit the Jesuit Futurist timeline, y'all just add time to it, right? 2,000+ year "gap" to Daniel 9, "years" to the "day of the Lord"? Verse 16 aptly describes what you're doing here: twisting Scripture. The Greek word for "day" means a "sunrise to sunset, 24 hour day", not a period of years.

It does not say "the time of the Lord".
It does not say "the events of the Lord".
It does not say "the years of the Lord."

It says plainly, "the day of the Lord shall come as a thief..."

Jesus, of Whom it is said will come "as a thief", said Himself that His coming would be as "in the days of Noah" -- did it take 7 years for the Flood to carry the wicked away, or was it all of a sudden? Peter reminds us of that sudden destruction just before he details what it will be like when Jesus comes as a thief, but you guys will just keep denying all this GPS triangulation in order to insist that "day" means "YEARS"?????????????

 

[Phoneman-777]

I believe non of the above, you sir are a liar, you sir are in sin, you sir are unrepentant, and as such, I must wipe the dust off my feet and turn you over to God,

People who argue the Ten Commandments are too grievous to keep are no different than a promiscuous bachelor arguing a bridegroom's vow to stay faithful to his bride is too grievous to keep...and both exit the church in the same wretched state as when they entered.

 

[Phoneman-777]

You talk a load of rubbish do you know that?

It is Peter who describes the law as a yoke which neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear, and it is Moses which considered fidelity in marriage so grievous that he allowed them to write a bill of divorce.

Yes, the Mosaic Law which was nailed to the Cross was a difficult to bear, what with all the ceremonial and sacrificial requirements. What's that got to do with the Ten Commandments, which "stand fast forever and ever"?

You know full well Christians can't disregard the First Commandment, but because you won't keep the Fourth Commandment, you argue we don't have to keep any...and you are found to be "partial in the law" (Malachi 2:9 KJV) and prove yourself guilty of all...and God has only one fate for lawbreakers who refuse to repent.

What we say about the law is that it is good and spiritual but because we are weak and fleshly we have been proved incapable of keeping it.

How can people be "weak and fleshly" and yet "more than conquerors" at the same time??? We either get born again and rather die than sin, or be born only once and die in our sin.

 

[posthuman]

People who argue the Ten Commandments are too grievous to keep are no different than a promiscuous bachelor arguing a bridegroom's vow to stay faithful to his bride is too grievous to keep...and both exit the church in the same wretched state as when they entered.

do you understand that you just broke #9 ?

 

[posthuman]

Let me put it this way: I'm a Saint who plans to "endure to the end"

let me put it this way:

endure in what?
how?

 

[Phoneman-777]

just as unbiblical as works salvation, the exact thing you push.

once saved always saved is bunk. having to do good works to maintain salvation is bunk.

so, you are as wrong as they are.

LOL I push the same thing John pushes: that works are the evidence of salvation (1 John 2:3-4 KJV; 1 John 5:2-3 KJV). Since John was the disciple "Jesus loved" I think I'm in good company

Maybe you don't understand the plain words of 1 John 2:3-4 KJV, so here it is in even more plain language:

"We can tell we know Jesus as our Savior if He's in us and empowering us to obey the Ten Commandments. People who call themselves 'Christian' but refuse to obey the Ten Commandments are colossal liars who don't give a hoot about doing right, but just don't want to end up in the Lake of Fire for doing wrong...and Jesus Who is the Truth isn't within 100 yards of them, though wave their hands in church and get on websites and condemn those who DO want to 'keep God's commandments and do those things which are pleasing in His sight (1 John 3:22 KJV)."

 

[Phoneman-777]

why are you so furious and hateful towards the belief that God is faithful to keep those who put their trust in Him?

Why are you so hateful toward those who point out your hatred for God's Ten Commandments? Is it because you enjoy crucifying "the Son of God afresh"?

 

[Phoneman-777]

our Good Husband gave His life to save His adulterous, wicked, sinful bride
if God does not forgive sinners and remain faithful to them even when they are unfaithful to Him, then there is no such thing as salvation.

which is why people who do not believe in His faithfulness preach 'temporary provisional life' instead of the eternal life Christ promises, why they preach 'eternal insecurity' and law, rather than the riches of His grace and mercy, and why they preach a 'non-salvation' that has everything to do themselves rather than actual salvation that has everything to do with God.

this is why JW's stand in your driveway and attack the goodness of God. they believe it is how they are saved -- they think they are earning their way into glory by the abundance of their traffic, and they will be damned if they don't spend their weekends preaching lies door-to-door.

Does the "adulterous, wicked, sinful bride show her love and appreciation for her merciful husband by continuing to run trains with the local semi-pro basketball champions?

Or does she REPENT of that and resolve to love and be faithful to her wonderful husband all the rest of her days?

 

[Ogom]

so, you are as wrong as they are.

God is a very big god with very big thoughts and while any darkness remains in us from anything of us (self, the world and it's ideas, sin, imperfections of any kind, ect.) we still lack knowledge (light).

1 John 1:5
4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete. 5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.

and so the importance is seen -- perhaps over much time -- in a Christian's life-- of the teaching on righteousness -- or -- of leaving the milk behind and going on to maturity. not again laying the beginnings of things -- but moving on more and more towards Christ (Christ -likeness/light-ness).

Hebrews 6:1
Because of this, let us leave the beginning of the message of The Messiah, and let us go on to perfection; or are you laying again another foundation for conversion from dead works and for faith in God,
ABPE

We must try to become mature and start thinking about more than just the basic things we were taught about Christ. We shouldn't need to keep talking about why we ought to turn from deeds that bring death and why we ought to have faith in God.
CEV

 

[Phoneman-777]

proclaiming to you that salvation is not by works, not by will, desire or effort of man but by the mercy & grace of God through faith, is not tantamount to 'complaining that God's commandments are too grievous'

believe what is written: we are not under the law
if you do not believe this, what makes you think you're a Christian?
because you think Christ died for nothing?

shall i go around telling people you are complaining that salvation is unbelievable?

If you think God's Ten Commandments are not grievous, then why to you need a OSAS License to Sin? Why are you unwilling to keep the seventh day Sabbath holy by not working on which demonstrates to the world it is the Creator and Redeemer (Isaiah 44:24 KJV) Who you rest in for salvation and Who you serve as your Lord, and not the god of this world and his "venerable day of the sun"?

 

[Phoneman-777]

IOW no, you're not saved,

"I'm a Saint" implies "already saved", right? Words mean things, brother (except when it comes to "agapao" and "agape", right? )

 

[Phoneman-777]

let me put it this way:

endure in what?
how?

That to which Jesus refers in Matthew 24:13 KJV

 

[posthuman]

Why are you so hateful toward those who point out your hatred for God's Ten Commandments? Is it because you enjoy crucifying "the Son of God afresh"?

who says i hate God's commandments?
you say.
but you say this only because i repeat God's words to you: we have died, and our life is hid in Christ. we are no longer under law, which has no authority over a dead man. the power of sin is the law, and the sting of sin is death. salvation is not by works, not by human effort or desire, but by God who has mercy on the ungodly, by grace through faith.

- so if speaking God's words make you say that i hate His commandments, what is the implication about what you are really saying?

 

[posthuman]

That to which Jesus refers in Matthew 24:13 KJV

cool so: endure in what, and how - by what power and whose will?
what specifically do 'you intend to' "endure in" ?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Phoneman 777,

As a brother who loves you, I urge you to take a break from being argumentative and take a careful consideration of my postings.

And I urge you return from R&R, leave your post at the rear echelon, get up to the front lines ASAP, and unsheathe your sword of the spirit, for the enemy is capturing unwary, untutored, easily manipulated church people by untold numbers and it's our job to fight the good fight of faith and earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the Saints.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Yes, the Mosaic Law which was nailed to the Cross was a difficult to bear, what with all the ceremonial and sacrificial requirements. What's that got to do with the Ten Commandments, which "stand fast forever and ever"?

You know full well Christians can't disregard the First Commandment, but because you won't keep the Fourth Commandment, you argue we don't have to keep any...and you are found to be "partial in the law" (Malachi 2:9 KJV) and prove yourself guilty of all...and God has only one fate for lawbreakers who refuse to repent.
How can people be "weak and fleshly" and yet "more than conquerors" at the same time??? We either get born again and rather die than sin, or be born only once and die in our sin.

To love God with all your mind, heart, and soul is the first and greatest commandment. The second is just like it: To love everyone else, including your enemies. These two commandments form the basis of all the other commandments. How is one just like the other? You have to have that agape love from God through His Holy Spirit that fills our hearts. When you obey the Spirit of the Law, you are not nullifying the Letter of the Law but obeying it because your intent driven by the love in your heart produces good works and accomplishes God's will.

That is how I distinguish the true Christians from the fakes ( by the amount of love they exhibit in their lives and posts).

 

[Phoneman-777]

who says i hate God's commandments?

Because there's no Spiritual Switzerland. God's law is eternal and we are either with Him or against Him. Anyone who argues the Christian is under no obligation to observe them because their "OSAS License to Sin" covers any disregard of them demonstrates contempt for them.

"Blessed are they which do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life and may enter into the gates to the city". Revelation 22:14 KJV

 

[Jocund]

First, what I'm saying about Matthew 24:12 KJV is not conjecture; it's a fully Biblical, hermeneutical conclusion.

Here's what I think your perspective is so far (P=point, C=conclusion, R=rebuttal):

P1) Only saints and God have agape
P2) Those with agape are saved
P3) It is possible to lose agape
C1) Therefore, OSAS (once saved, always saved) is necessarily false

R1) I have no disagreement with points 1 and 2, but point 3 is not demonstrated and further contradicts 1 Cor 13:7, therefore the conclusion is incorrect.

P3.1) The loss of agape is demonstrated in Mat 24:12 by the term "cold" agape and necessarily means "dead"/"lost" agape.
P3.2) Cold agape is parallel to spitting out the lukewarm
P3.3) Splitting out the lukewarm necessarily means rejection and loss of salvation
P3.4) Mat 24:12 is necessarily describing a different set of people than Mat 24:12
C3.X) Therefore, Point 3 is necessarily true

R3.1) Point 3.1 has no scriptural basis, and therefore is not necessarily true. Further, other passages speak contrary to this interpretation. An apostate is considered to have "never really been one of us to begin with" in 1 John 2:19.
R3.2) Point 3.2 could be true
R3.3) There are two interpretations that could be applied to splitting out: a) loss of salvation, and; b) a requirement for purification. Purification is demonstrated in scripture, loss of salvation is not. There is enough information to substantiate the purification interpretation, there is not enough information to substantiated the loss of salvation interpretation.
R3.4) Point 3.4 has also not been demonstrated to be true.
R3.X) The conclusion is false as a result of the points not being demonstrated to be necessarily true.

Others who recognize how nonsensical that idea is admit these "many" are Saints, but deny Jesus' clear contrast of the fates of those in verse 12 and 13 - the one "saved" and the other obviously not saved. If Jesus didn't mean that, what purpose does His statement serve? Why would he say, "My children, because of iniquity, some of you will continue to be on fire while some of you will fizzle, but you're all still going to heaven"

This is an example of an interpretation (and paraphrasing therein) that is not demonstrated to be necessarily true. The concept that verse 12 and 13 are talking about separate groups of people needs to be demonstrated. Especially when compared to "I would rather you were hot or cold" from the spitting out the lukewarm passage.

This is how TPT phrases the remark about hot or cold:

"I know all that you do, and I know that you are neither frozen in apathy nor fervent with passion. How I wish you were either one or the other!" - Revelation 3:15 TPT

there are several examples of Saints that will not make it to heaven in the OT and NT.

I have not seen any scripture that says this. Yes, I am interested to see if there are any. This would help your point greatly if they are in proper context. I do not see your interpretation of Mat 24:12-13 as being in proper context. I look forward to seeing your other examples.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

LOL I push the same thing John pushes: that works are the evidence of salvation (1 John 2:3-4 KJV; 1 John 5:2-3 KJV). Since John was the disciple "Jesus loved" I think I'm in good company

Maybe you don't understand the plain words of 1 John 2:3-4 KJV, so here it is in even more plain language:

"We can tell we know Jesus as our Savior if He's in us and empowering us to obey the Ten Commandments. People who call themselves 'Christian' but refuse to obey the Ten Commandments are colossal liars who don't give a hoot about doing right, but just don't want to end up in the Lake of Fire for doing wrong...and Jesus Who is the Truth isn't within 100 yards of them, though wave their hands in church and get on websites and condemn those who DO want to 'keep God's commandments and do those things which are pleasing in His sight (1 John 3:22 KJV)."

You need to read my posts and reflect on them. Pray that God will open your eyes to His truth if per chance you might be missing something important.