How We Can Tell If We Possess The Agape of God

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Phoneman-777 said:
I absolutely manifest the same spirit of Christ when I condemn false doctrine as He did. But, I'll stop short of calling the OSAS crowd "of their father the devil", as He called the Jews who had the same stubborn spirit.

If OSAS people were alive and heard Jesus preaching, they'd condemn Him for "being so mean". LOL
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Whatever dude
you attack a doctrine you have absolutely no comprehension of what it teaches, your slander people with lies, and you continually harp.

Christ was perfect, you my friend are not, so to compair yourself with Christ is laughable

again I say practice what you preach don’t yell at others to be a certain way when you refuse
 
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Phoneman-777 said:
Eternal Security is in a surrendered relationship with Jesus, and nothing else. If we choose to withdraw our surrender, we cease to "abide in the Vine", and our fate is to be cast into the fire and be burned.
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lie, lie , lie.

you have been shown by me and others that one receives eternal life by BELIEVING in Jesus. and nothing else.

i am just going to start saying this to you and nothing else.

because that is what it takes to be a Christian.
 
gb9 said:
lie, lie , lie.

you have been shown by me and others that one receives eternal life by BELIEVING in Jesus. and nothing else.

i am just going to start saying this to you and nothing else.

because that is what it takes to be a Christian.
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Trembling devils believe there is one God (James 2:19 KJV) and that Jesus was the Son of God sent to save the world from them (Matthew 8:29 KJV).

We all know where they're going.
 
Jocund said:
So in your view, someone that follows the first two commandments follows the Mosaic 10 already? Wonderful.
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Is it right to attribute "thou shalt not kill" to Moses when Cain knew full well that it was wrong to kill Abel?
Jocund said:
If you have love in your heart, you will naturally do good works without having to make a conscious decision. Like wheat growing will naturally produce fruit. We can make a conscious effort to train ourselves to nurture that love, and by that we improve our yield. But you can't produce true fruit simply by merely following a direction to abstain or partake in a fleshly behaviour. Jesus constantly called the Pharisees hypocrites and vipers for following the letter of the law at the expense of the spirit of the law. We are saved by grace and not by works, but that does not mean that we don't also perform works
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Are we obligated to keep the commandments or free to disregard them?
 
Jocund said:
What would this "withdrawl" look like?
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Your expectation that withdrawal of one's surrender to God is observable is why the OSAS crowd will never see the light:

Surrender of the will or withdrawal of it is a purely cognitive exercise that happens between our ears - it itself cannot be seen.

However, the evidence for whether we are surrendered or not is easily seen: 1 John 2:3-4 KJV; 1 John 5:2-3 KJV
 
Evmur said:
You cast away salvation, the salvation of God. The only salvation on offer is the free gift of eternal life, you curl your lip and call it OSAS.

You don't have this eternal life, you don't believe in it. See you teach a lying gospel. The gospel doesn't say "surrender thy heart and thou shalt be saved"

In olden times God gave His laws and insisted upon His people obeying it, that was His covenant. But the people broke this covenant so God did away with it. He made a new covenant.

You insist on going back to the old covenant, not that anybody can for it was only a temporary quick fix, that's what you like.

You don't want to have done once and for all with sin, you like it too much, you love the 2-3 days of self control in obeying commands followed by that delicious surrender into fleshly pleasure when you fall. Which apart from the cross you inevitably will.

You are on the sin merry-go-round and you keep falling off it.

We believe in victory over sin through the cross.
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You believe salvation doesn't change us, just God's opinion of our sin that remains in us.

The Bible says Christians are "new creatures in Jesus", not the same people who go down in the baptistry dry pagans and come up wet pagans.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Whatever dude
you attack a doctrine you have absolutely no comprehension of what it teaches, your slander people with lies, and you continually harp.

Christ was perfect, you my friend are not, so to compair yourself with Christ is laughable

again I say practice what you preach don’t yell at others to be a certain way when you refuse
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Don't be mad because I don't believe as the OSAS crowd does: that we may obtain by dead faith that which can be obtained only by living faith: eternal life.
 
Jocund said:
Follow the NT covenant as best as we can, with the understanding that it is impossible to do so perfectly.
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So, are we obligated to keep them or free to disregard them?

If you can't answer such a simple question, it's time to start questioning why that is.
 
Phoneman-777 said:
Your expectation that withdrawal of one's surrender to God is observable is why the OSAS crowd will never see the light:

Surrender of the will or withdrawal of it is a purely cognitive exercise that happens between our ears - it itself cannot be seen.

However, the evidence for whether we are surrendered or not is easily seen: 1 John 2:3-4 KJV; 1 John 5:2-3 KJV
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Where is your proof to demonstrate that it is possible to withdraw? An OSAS doesn't believe that this surrender in Christ can truly be rescinded (and that any that rescind were not truly in Christ to begin with). If you have something to demonstrate that withdrawal is possible, I think in proper context that would demonstrate OSAS to be incorrect.

Something other than this Matthew 24:12 conjecture.
 
I don't understand why there is so much confusion. The Father grants repentance to sinners who then turn to Him for forgiveness of their sins which they receive when they put their trust in the Father's plan of forgiveness of sins through His Son, Jesus Christ. It doesn't stop there. The believer is then perfected when he receives the Holy Spirit.

Since Adam and Eve, man's problem has always been his heart. When a believer receives the Holy Spirit of God, he is born again with a perfected heart full of the same love that Jesus shared with the Father. Jesus prayed to the Father that we should share in this same love.


We are not able to keep the letter of the Law so Jesus made it easy for us. By keeping the Spirit of the Law, we are obeying His commandments. Simply put, when we make decisions with love in our hearts, we are obeying the Spirit of the Law.

Also, all those that are sealed with the Holy Spirit, become part of the body of Christ , become sons of God, and are One with the Father and Son. Just as a man and woman become one in matrimony, Christians are the bride of Christ.

Going back to the original post, having agape love is an experience. If you are not sure if you have this love, then you don't have it. If you do have it, you know because you love God with all you mind, heart, and soul, as well as all around you including your enemies. Just like Jesus, your bread is to do the Father's will with love in your heart.
 
Phoneman-777 said:
"Follow the NT covenant as best as we can, with the understanding that it is impossible to do so perfectly."
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So, are we obligated to keep them or free to disregard them?

If you can't answer such a simple question, it's time to start questioning why that is.
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The short answer is neither.

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested" - Romans 3:21a

"What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid." - Romans 6:15

The question is actually a false dichotomy. To demonstrate why it is a false dichotomy, answer this question:

"Are we obligated to be good all of the time in order to be saved? Or free to disregard being good?"

If you answer yes to the first question, no one would ever be saved because no one is perfectly good all of the time. If you answer yes to the second question, it appears as an endorsement of bad behaviour. We aren't obligated to be good at all times in order to be saved, and we aren't free to disregard being good.

"Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law." - Romans 3:19-28
 
CorrectiveLens said:
I don't understand why there is so much confusion. The Father grants repentance to sinners who then turn to Him for forgiveness of their sins which they receive when they put their trust in the Father's plan of forgiveness of sins through His Son, Jesus Christ. It doesn't stop there. The believer is then perfected when he receives the Holy Spirit.

Since Adam and Eve, man's problem has always been his heart. When a believer receives the Holy Spirit of God, he is born again with a perfected heart full of the same love that Jesus shared with the Father. Jesus prayed to the Father that we should share in this same love.


We are not able to keep the letter of the Law so Jesus made it easy for us. By keeping the Spirit of the Law, we are obeying His commandments. Simply put, when we make decisions with love in our hearts, we are obeying the Spirit of the Law.

Also, all those that are sealed with the Holy Spirit, become part of the body of Christ , become sons of God, and are One with the Father and Son. Just as a man and woman become one in matrimony, Christians are the bride of Christ.

Going back to the original post, having agape love is an experience. If you are not sure if you have this love, then you don't have it. If you do have it, you know because you love God with all you mind, heart, and soul, as well as all around you including your enemies. Just like Jesus, your bread is to do the Father's will with love in your heart.
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Notice that God in the form of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is involved in a persons salvation. When a christian enlightens someone through preaching the gospel truth and that person becomes a christian, that person has been baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
 
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