About the great flood

[Evers]

Only if the canopy were the only source of the water. Scripture also mentions the fountains of the deep. It was likely a combination of atmospheric water and oceans being displaced.

Genesis 7:11–24 For forty days and nights, rain falls from above, and underground water rushes from below. As a result, floodwaters fully cover the surface of the land for another 110 days.

 

[TheLearner]

Fast moving plates would more readil explain how mountans got so large large, and better explain how fossils got there,

The 16000 C would have burned us everything, so does not explain fossils.

"
How are fossils formed?
Fossils are formed in different ways, but most are formed when a plant or animal dies in a watery environment and is buried in mud and silt. Soft tissues quickly decompose leaving the hard bones or shells behind. Over time sediment builds over the top and hardens into rock. It is when the processes of erosion occur that these secrets in stone are revealed to us."
https://australian.museum/learn/australia-over-time/fossils/how-are-fossils-formed/

The high heat temperatures from moving plates would destroy anything to make fossils from.
Making a fossil is slow process, not a fast one.
the water pressure would also destroy a fossil.

1,000 feet water depth is 480 psi enough to destroy wood. The deeper the water is more likely stuff is destroyed.

The time it takes to make a fossil would require death before the fall. Once while substitute teaching, the experiments related to making fossils depending on the chemical process, some took a week, others several weeks and some a few years.

The basic issue is how long the corpse survived and the chemical process.

Therefore, sea fossils must have been made in shadow water.

 

[TheLearner]

Noah's flood is based on biblical time. Some say it was about 4000 years ago
The recent excavation of Sanxingdui in China confirms part of China's history, that is, Dayu's flood control, About 4000 years ago.

The Indians also have the legend of a great flood,But I don't know the time.

Paradoxically, evidence of the ark has been found on Mount Ararat

Then there are two results of reasonable inference
1.The Biblical flood did cover all the mountains, including the Himalayas.
But Noah's descendants cover up the cruel facts of the great flood.Instead, it is a beautiful story.

2.The Biblical flood did not cover all the mountains,
It only covers the mountains around Ararat.
But it also caused global flooding.

I am part cherokee, all our flood stories are post New Testament and Post Columbus.

 

[TheLearner]

All that was needed was the dna. That would later come to fruition. It’s the same with animals. He did not take every different subset of specie, he took 2 of every kind. Imagine all the dogs we have today. If you look at dna you can tell it is a dog. Slight difference in dna make each type (pug, terroir, shepherd. Etc etc) so Noah did not need to take each type. All he had to do was take 2 dogs,

Only Hebrew source that relates "kind" to "species" is Strong's Concordance. https://biblescan.com/searchhebrew.php?q=species

The concept of Species is very recent in Science. So, kind = species in Biblical Hebrew does not exist. It has been inserted into Lexicons.

If you compare original copies of lexicons with modern edited editions. You will find that species is unknown in original works.

Strong's also inserts the word species for several hebrew different words.




Ernst Mayr and the modern concept of species
Kevin de Queiroz
PNAS May 3, 2005 102 (suppl 1) 6600-6607; https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.0502030102

 

[TheLearner]

All that was needed was the dna. That would later come to fruition. It’s the same with animals. He did not take every different subset of specie, he took 2 of every kind. Imagine all the dogs we have today. If you look at dna you can tell it is a dog. Slight difference in dna make each type (pug, terroir, shepherd. Etc etc) so Noah did not need to take each type. All he had to do was take 2 dogs,

Strong's Hebrew
Search results for: species

72 entries found. Showing up to 25.
Strong's Hebrew: 4327. מִין (min) -- kind, species
... Bible Strong's Hebrew 4327 4327. min Strong's Concordance min: kind, species Original Word: מִין Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: min Phonetic Spelling: (meen) Definition: kind, species NAS Exhaustive Concordance Word Origin ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/4327.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 8321a. soreq -- (choice species of) the vine
... Bible Strong's Hebrew 8321a 8321a. soreq Strong's Concordance soreq: (choice species of) the vine Transliteration: soreq Definition: (choice species of) the vine NAS Exhaustive Concordance Word Origin from the same as saroq Definition (choice ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8321a.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 3581a. koach -- a small reptile (of unknown species)
... Bible Strong's Hebrew 3581a 3581a. koach Strong's Concordance koach: a small reptile (of unknown species) Transliteration: koach Definition: a small reptile (of unknown species) NAS Exhaustive Concordance Word Origin of uncertain derivation Definition a small ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3581a.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 8213. שָׁפֵל (shaphel) -- to be or become low, to be abased
... , puts down (1 ) . Brown-Driver-Briggs שָׁפֵל verb be or become low, be abased (Late Hebrew, derived species; Assyrian šapâlu, derived species and derivatives; Sabean ספל noun humility or lowland DHMxxix (1875), 604 ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8213.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 8227. שָׁפָן (shaphan) -- coney
... 5 father of יַאֲזַנְיָ֫הוּ Ezekiel 8:11 , possibly = 1 שׁוֺפָן see עֲטָרוֺת above Strong's Exhaustive Concordance coney; a species of rock-rabbit From saphan ; a species of rock-rabbit (from its hiding), i.e. Probably the hyrax- ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8227.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 5528. סָכַל (sakal) -- to be foolish or a fool
... usually in moral or spititual sense (Syriac Aph`el act foolishly; foolish, etc., ᵑ7 סְכַל derived species, act foolishly; סַכְלָא fool; Christian-Palestinian Aramaic , Aph`el = ἁμαρτάνω, also derivatives SchwIdioticon 62; ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5528.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 8321. שֹׂרֵק (soreq) -- choicest
... : שׂרֵק Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: soreq Phonetic Spelling: (so-rake') Definition: (choice species of) the vine Brown-Driver-Briggs I. שֹׂרֵק noun [masculine] choice species of vine; — absolute ׳ שׂ ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/8321.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 7937. שָׁכַר (shakar) -- to be or become drunk or drunken
... Brown-Driver-Briggs I. [שָׁכַר] verb be, or beocme, drunk, drunken (Late Hebrew id., derived species and derivatives; Ecclus 40:18; Ecclus 40:20 שכר strong drink; Arabic be drunken, also ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/7937.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 697. אַרְבֶּה (arbeh) -- (a kind of) locust
... locust-swarm, in simile of swarm of invaders Judges 6:5 ; Judges 7:12 ; often apparently the common species (" " other species, compare לְמִינוֺ Leviticus 11:22 ): Jeremiah 46:23 ; Nahum 3 ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/697.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 4940. מִשְׁפָּחָה (mishpachah) -- a clan
... 41 . 2 = guild 1 Chronicles 2:55 (of scribes; originally hereditary in families) . 3 = species, kind: a. of judgments Jeremiah 15:3 . b. animals Genesis 8:19 (P ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/4940.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 2284. חָגָב (chagab) -- locust, grasshopper
... חָגָב noun masculineEcclesiastes 12:5 locust, grasshopper (Late Hebrew id.; compare ᵑ7), probably a non-flying species, see Kn in DiLeviticus 11:22; הֶחָגָב allowed as food Leviticus 11:22 (P ; " ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/2284.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 2467. חֹ֫לֶד (choled) -- weasel
... 1 ) . Brown-Driver-Briggs חֹ֫לֶד noun [masculine] weasel (Late Hebrew חוּלְדָּא; Arabic mole or blind-rat, or a species of rat; on formative see LagBN 144) — weasel Leviticus 11:29 (Vrss Ki Thes and others ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/2467.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 3123. יוֹנִים (yonah) -- dove
... 12 (all J); often of offerings, בֶּןיֿוֺנָה Leviticus 12:6 (P ; an individual of the species; "" תֹּר); בְּנֵי (ה )יוֺנִים "" תֹּרִיםׅ Leviticus 1:14 ; Leviticus 5 ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3123.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 3581. כֹּ֫חַ (koach) -- ability
... Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: koach Phonetic Spelling: (ko' akh) Definition: a small reptile (of unknown species) Brown-Driver-Briggs I. כֹּחַ noun [masculine] a small reptile, probably a kind of lizard, in list ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3581.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 3735. כָּרָא (kera) -- to be distressed
... be short, abridged, it grieved me; pain, grief; compare Assyrian kûru, pain; also (derived species) be ill, Arabic dislike, shrink from); — Perfect3masculine singular אִתְכְּכְּ רִיַת רוּחִי (K 47. ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/3735.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 4131. מוֹט (mot) -- to totter, shake, slip
... Brown-Driver-Briggs [מוֺט] verb totter, shake, slip (usually in poetry) (Late Hebrew id., derived species; Aramaic , מוּט; Arabic (medial י) remove, retire; deviate from right course; repel, ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/4131.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 4834. מָרַץ (marats) -- to be sick
... , plagues (1 ), violent (1 ) . Brown-Driver-Briggs [מָרַץ] verb be sick, only in derived species (Assyrian II. marâƒu DlHWB 426; Arabic ; Sabean מרץֿ sick person, sickness, MordtZMG 1876, 32 ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/4834.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 5128. נ֫וּעַ (nua) -- to quiver, wave, waver, tremble, totter
... of boughs), see commotus fuit (of id.), so Kam Frey; also change, kind, species, variety; Di compare Ethiopic hunt); — Qal Perfect נָ֫עוּ Job 28:4 +; וְנָע֫וּ Amos ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5128.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 5162. נָחַם (nacham) -- to be sorry, console oneself
... . Brown-Driver-Briggs [נחם] verb Niph`al be sorry, console, oneself, etc. (only in derived species) (Late Hebrew Pi`el comfort; Phoenician in proper name Lzb322; ᵑ7 Pa`el = Late ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5162.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 5358. נָקַם (naqam) -- to avenge, take vengeance
... 30; Ecclesiasticus 48:7 ; Late Hebrew נָקַם especially in derivatives; Aramaic נְקַם (rare), in derived species; Arabic take vengeance ( upon), Lane3037; compare Ethiopic Di458 vindictae studium, ultionis cupido; Assyrian i ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5358.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 5423. נָתַק (nathaq) -- to pull, draw, or tear away, apart, or off
... ] verb pull, draw, tear away, apart, off (Late Hebrew id.; ᵑ7 נְתַק in derived species (rare), pull off, tear off; Christian-Palestinian Aramaic shake off, SchwIdioticon 58; Arabic pull off ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5423.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 5641. סָתַר (sathar) -- to hide, conceal
... (1 ), undetected (1 ) . Brown-Driver-Briggs סָתַר verb hide, conceal (Late Hebrew id., derived species; ᵑ7 סְתַר Pa`el, Ithpa`al, Syriac Pe`al Passive participle, chiefly Pa` ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5641.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 5927. עָלָה (alah) -- to go up, ascend, climb
... Hebrew id.; MI33(?); Phoenician עלה; Assyrian elû; Arabic ; ᵑ7 and Syriac in derived species; compare perhaps Ethiopic (for Di54); Sabean עלי = DHMZMG xxxvii. 415, compare עלוהו = SabDenkm91 ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5927.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 5956. עָלַם (alam) -- to conceal
... ), shuts (1 ) . Brown-Driver-Briggs I. [עָלַם] verb conceal (Late Hebrew id., derived species); — Qal Participle pass עֲלֻמֵנוּ Psalm 90:8 as substantive our secret, i.e. hidden sin ( ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5956.htm
Strong's Hebrew: 6009. עָמַק (amoq) -- to be deep
... u , might, nîme ‡ u , wisdom (? as unfathomable); ᵑ7 in derivatives; Syriac in derived species); — Qal Perfect3masculine plural עָֽמְקוּ Psalm 92:6 (of ׳ יs designs; compare Assyrian above) ...
https://biblehub.com/hebrew/6009.htm

 

[TheLearner]

Wow. I guess you were not around to share your wisdom and explain this to God.

Just in case your wondering this is what God had to say about it:
"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so." Gen 1:6-7

Love your poor attitude. I am around to understand Hebrew, Biblical Cultures, and the time frames related to Bible Translation.

I already explained the word firmament.

 

[TheLearner]

I really get a kick out of all the mind gymnastics going on to try and prove God's word wrong.

Hey people, God is God. He is all that. And if He said something was done it was done. Period. He didn't need to ask the permission of mere men. That's the awesome God I serve.

I like all the begging the question too. This is really about an interpretation of scripture that does not hold water.

12,000 psi is just that.

 

[49]

With God, ALL things are possible....

 

[Wansvic]

Love your poor attitude. I am around to understand Hebrew, Biblical Cultures, and the time frames related to Bible Translation.

I already explained the word firmament.

I believe God's stated truth. It's called faith.

 

[TheLearner]

Psalm 59:6
Those evil men are like dogs that come into town in the evening, growling and roaming the streets.

Matthew 7:6
“Don’t give something that is holy to dogs. They will only turn and hurt you. And don’t throw your pearls to pigs. They will only step on them

Philippians 3:2

Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision!


Dogs were looked down upon in ancient times.

 

[TheLearner]

I believe God's stated truth. It's called faith.

As you can see the word Kind in the creation accounts and in Noah's account does not mean species.

BIBLE SEARCH RESULTS

1. Genesis 1:11
   Then God said, “Let the earth grow grass, plants that make grain, and fruit trees. The fruit trees will make fruit with seeds in it. And each plant will make its own kind of seed. Let these plants grow on the earth.” And it happened.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2. Genesis 1:12
   The earth grew grass and plants that made grain. And it grew trees that made fruit with seeds in it. Every plant made its own kind of seeds. And God saw that this was good.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
3. Genesis 1:21
   So God created the large sea animals. He created all the many living things in the sea and every kind of bird that flies in the air. And God saw that this was good.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
4. Genesis 1:24
   The Sixth Day—Land Animals and People
   Then God said, “Let the earth produce many kinds of living things. Let there be many different kinds of animals. Let there be large animals and small crawling animals of every kind. And let all these animals produce more animals.” And all these things happened.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
5. Genesis 1:25
   So God made every kind of animal. He made the wild animals, the tame animals, and all the small crawling things. And God saw that this was good.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
6. Genesis 2:12
   (There is gold in that country, and that gold is pure. A kind of expensive perfume and onyx are also found there.)
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
7. Genesis 6:19
   Also, you will take two of every living thing on the earth with you into the boat. Take a male and female of every kind of animal so that they might survive with you.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
8. Genesis 6:20
   Two of every kind of bird, animal, and creeping thing will come to you so that you might keep them alive.
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
9. Genesis 6:21
   Also bring every kind of food into the boat, for you and for the animals.”
   In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
10. Genesis 7:2
    Get seven pairs (seven males and seven females) of every kind of clean animal. And get one pair (one male and one female) of every other animal on the earth. Lead all these animals into the boat with you.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
11. Genesis 7:14
    They and every kind of animal on the earth were in the boat. Every kind of cattle, every kind of animal that crawls on the earth, and every kind of bird were in the boat.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
12. Genesis 7:15
    All these animals went into the boat with Noah. They came in groups of two from every kind of animal that had the breath of life.
    In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
13. Genesis 7:21-22
    Every living thing on earth died—every man and woman, every bird, and every kind of animal. All the many kinds of animals and all the things that crawl on the ground died. Every living, breathing thing on dry land died.

In biological classification, taxonomic rank is the relative level of a group of organisms (a taxon) in a taxonomic hierarchy. Examples of taxonomic ranks are species, genus, family, order, class, phylum, kingdom, domain, etc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxonomic_rank#Main_ranks

 

[TheLearner]

Genesis 7:11–24 For forty days and nights, rain falls from above, and underground water rushes from below. As a result, floodwaters fully cover the surface of the land for another 110 days.

Forgive me, how does the rain cycle work?

 

[TheLearner]

I do not see the Bible as a Science book. I believe God is our Creator. Moses was not present at creation, therefore he had to either gotten a revelation or copied info from oral tradition.

 

[TheLearner]

Here's something to consider. The animals on the Ark would have been babies. They would take up less room, sleep a lot, require less food, and less clean up. Once off the Ark the fertility period for repopulating the Earth would be greater than with older animals.

A good Creation Science series by Ken Hovind (www.drdino.com) makes many valid points about concepts surrounding the flood.

The text and logic does not match your claim. also, babies require more care than adults. Adult animals can reproduce whereas, it takes years for a baby to reproduce.

"
His communications were ignored until this recent email from Kent Hovind:

Anyone wishing to get a transcript of our current material to post on a web site or distribute to others is free to do so as long as no changes are made and credit is given including my name, address, and web site. Permission is given only for the most recent version to be posted. (1-16-00, Skip Evans email).​

...


Misspellings are rampant. A careful, knowledgeable editor/adviser would never allow a student to get away with misspelling "Caanan", "Voltair", "Nyles Eldridge", Madelyn Murray "O'Hare" (just like the airport), "Shintu" (the Japanese religion), "peersuaded", "centrifical" (force!!!), "aught" (to!), "disippated", "immerged" (from the slime), or "epic" (as in geological!). "It's" is used as a possessive pronoun. There are several non sentences. This is especially interesting since the course catalog of PU offers courses like "Refresher English" and "Mechanics of Composition".

THE THESIS HAS NO TITLE. There are no references or footnotes. A few partial citations are included in the body of the thesis, but they are not in standard form, and are incomplete. In at least two places (pp 65-66) the citation simply notes that there is a book title to be added. This has no place in a final version.

The single illustration, the electromagnetic spectrum, is cut out of a science textbook and taped on; it does not fit the page. Additionally, there are substantial formatting errors typical of a draft, but not a final, version. The final version is printed on a dot-matrix printer, an absolute no-no, even in 1991.

The Ph.D. is in "Christian Education", not "Education" - that's what the title page says. The coursework for the two degrees is substantially different, but as late as 1-10-00, Hovind still seems loath to advertising the "Christian" aspect of his degree. Curious that a Christian would leave that part out! " https://www.noanswersingenesis.org.au/bartelt_dissertation_on_hovind_thesis.htm

 

[TheLearner]

"He is controversial within the Young Earth Creationist movement, and Answers in Genesis openly criticized him for continued use of discredited arguments abandoned by others in the movement. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind#Legal_problems


Any involved in creating chick tracts is not a scholar work listening to.

"On August 15, 2002 Hovind was arrested for assault, battery, and burglary in an incident with a CSE secretary. "

Federal civil tax matters, bankruptcy, and renouncing citizenship (1996–2006)

"On March 1, 1996, Hovind filed a Chapter 13 bankruptcy petition to avoid paying federal income taxes, claiming he was not a citizen of the United States and that he did not earn income."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind#Legal_problems

"Patriot Bible University (PBU), formerly known as Patriot University, is an unaccredited Independent Baptist correspondence school located in Del Norte, Colorado[2] which issues religious degrees only.[3] According to the State of Colorado, Patriot's "degrees or diplomas have no state recognition".[4] PBU is not accredited by any agency recognized by the Department of Education.[5] It has been called a diploma mill, lacking sufficient academic standards to award degrees " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Bible_University
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind#Legal_problems

 

[TheLearner]

"Kent Hovind promotes himself as Dr. Kent Hovind or Dr. Dino. Prior to his 58 felony convictions and ten-year prison sentence, Hovind received a Ph.D. from Patriot Bible University, an unaccredited Christian college. Because of Hovind's use of the title of "Doctor" based on a degree from an unaccredited institution, legitimate scientists have closely examined his bona fides, including the work he submitted to fulfill the requirements for a doctorate. "
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Kent_Hovind's_doctoral_dissertations

 

[TheLearner]

https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com...suit-is-getting-laughed-out-of-the-courtroom/
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/United_States_of_America_v_Kent_Hovind_and_Jo_Hovind
https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/local/florida/dr-dino-found-guilty-of-contempt/236697851


Romans 13
Easy-to-Read Version
Obey Your Government Rulers
13 All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God. 2 So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded. Those who are against the government bring punishment on themselves. 3 People who do right don’t have to fear the rulers. But those who do wrong must fear them. Do you want to be free from fearing them? Then do only what is right, and they will praise you.

4 Rulers are God’s servants to help you. But if you do wrong, you have reason to be afraid. They have the power to punish, and they will use it. They are God’s servants to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must obey the government, not just because you might be punished, but because you know it is the right thing to do.

6 And this is why you pay taxes too. Those rulers are working for God, and they give all their time to the work of ruling. 7 Give everyone what you owe them. If you owe them any kind of tax, then pay it. Show respect to those you should respect. And show honor to those you should honor.

 

[TheLearner]

Did I point out that he is using arguments that have been refuted and put aside by the YEC movement?

 

[49]

I do not see the Bible as a Science book. I believe God is our Creator. Moses was not present at creation, therefore he had to either gotten a revelation or copied info from oral tradition.

2 Timothy 3:16 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[TheLearner]

2 Timothy 3:16 KJV All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

And, yet nothing in your quote proves the Bible is a Science book.