When facts are given to someone yet that someone refuses to acknowledge, what else may be going on?
50 Reasons For a Pretribulational Rapture By Dr. John F. Walvoord
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Argue? I provide Scripture that refutes contradictions to Scripture.
There are no verses about Jesus taking resurrected/raptured believers to heaven. Period. None. That is a fact.
2 Thess 2:1 very clearly places the gathering/rapture AT the Second Advent.
That's not an argument. That's a fact.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
You tell me?
Why are you refusing facts?
Oh wait. they are not facts. they are opinion.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Good day sir.
You provide scripture with YOUR interpretation. It does not prove fact. It just supports or apparently supports your view
Not everyone has your interpretation. SO they are YOUR facts. Not set in stone.
Again, This just shows you are unteachable and its ok. I was there once. I know what it is like to trust those who teach you so deeply you do not think they could ever be wrong.
Anyway, I will pray for you, that God will humble your soul when it comes to these non salvic doctrines and show you how he hates division and it is not from him.
But are we not children of the Light ?
Is Jesus not talking about those who are in darkness ?
Mount Zion and Mount Olive are two different mountains. So the Mount Olive you're referencing in Zechariah doesn't seem to have a clear correlation anywhere else in eschatology.
You'll closely notice that Revelation 14:1 says that the Lamb stands on Mount Zion with the 144,000.
Revelation 14:1
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Pure baloneyNo such verse exists because they aren't going to heaven.
For those reading: The living saints at the end of the Great Tribulation are separated and are all over the globe at the second coming but Christ wants them all at one place so he has them raptured up into the clouds from where ever they were before that so now all the living saints are in one place in the clouds exactly where Christ is. This is a brief pause in the second coming process which will continue when all the saints are together. No one is raptured to heaven because that's not where Christ wants them.
Not true at all.
The marriage and supper are in heaven.
Rev19
Acts 1
Mat 25
1 thes 4
There are 4 witnesses off the top of my head.
Not only that
The 144 k JEWS redeemed are firstfruit jews AND ARE IN HEAVEN around mid trib, as is the main harvest of jews around the mid chapter.
Lovely. I hope this ends all of the unnecessary debate and contention.View attachment 228381
HE is Following the Jewish Proposal to marriage, and the Tradition Wedding to the TEA.
Jewish Marriage Proposal, consists of:
Making a Contract with the Father, specifically to redeem the BRIDE.
Father wanted a Holy Blood Sacrifice to redeem the BRIDE.
The Bridegroom was to attend a Supper (the Last Supper) and Pour a Cup of Wine and set it in front of the BRIDE.
The Proposal was NON-VERBAL, she KNEW what it meant, the Disciples after Judas left, Drank from that 3rd Cup;
which is the Acceptance for the Church, the 11 Disciples Accepted the Proposal for all of us.
Jesus Made the TRADITIONAL announcement "I GO TO PREPARE A PLACE FOR YOU IN MY FATHERS HOUSE."
John 14:2 (HCSB)
2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you.
When HE departed the Old Dwelling Place of the BRIDE, HE is not allowed to come back until the New Dwelling place is finished.
Only the FATHER has the RESPONSIBILITY after all is FINISHED according to the FATHER's specification, "GO GET YOUR BRIDE."
HE always came to Steal the BRIDE away at NIGHT. But even then HE is not allowed to set foot NEAR the Old Dwelling Place.
HE had to chose one of HIS Wedding Party, to GO to the old dwelling place and SHOUT to CALL OUT THE BRIDE.
HE has CHOSEN the Archangel.
That SHOUT we are told WILL BE LIKE:
Matthew 25:6 (HCSB)
6 “In the middle of the night there was a shout: ‘Here’s the groom! Come out to meet him.’
A night the City of Jerusalem had NO STREET LAMPS, so it was absolutely necessary to have your Own Lantern with Oil in it.
The Oil in it was symbolism for the HOLY SPIRIT in our HEART, and YES, only Born Again Believers are Invited to Wedding in Heaven.
AFTER they arrive at the place where the BRIDEGROOM is WAITING, they will all go BACK TO THE FATHER's House for the WEDDING.
BUT it is not like a Christian Wedding, it LASTS a Whole WEEK, and since Daniel chapter 9, is a WEEK OF YEARS, this will be TOO.
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 (HCSB)
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the archangel’s voice, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air and so we will always be with the Lord. {Wherever HE goes there after.}
18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
The last day of the WEDDING, it is a Supper called the Wedding Feast, and it also is in the New City Jerusalem in HEAVEN.
There are two Wedding Feast in a Jewish Wedding. The first one in the Bridegroom's Father's House, and after the first Wedding Feast,
a second one is held for family members, usually at the Bride's Father house, that those who could not make it to the WEDDING,
where Bridegroom and the BRIDE even repeat their Wedding Vows.
Mt zion in heaven.
Keep reading
They are found in heaven.
That is WHY they are firstrfruits.
Harvest. You have to frame it correctly. Firstfruits OF MAIN HARVEST OF JEWS.
A few sentences later is main harvest by Jesus on a cloud.
Around mid trib
Very few do nowadays. We should consider ourselves blessed that the Lord has opened our eyes to know this truth.
In fact very recently I compiled a cartload of similar postings here on CC bundled them together and emailed them to two different pastors that I know. Crickets. Not even a reply. The one pastor I actually had the opportunity to explain it (The Jewish wedding ceremony As it pertains to the rapture) momentarily and he did not even care to acknowledge or reply.
Incidentally one was an millennialist (it took over a year of my endless emails and texts to find this to be true.......he was deceptive and sneaky about it). The other was a historical premillennialist. Both were evidently brainwashed in liberal Seminaries. Both upheld non-Jewish commentaries as supreme.......rather than the original Jewish biblical documents.
We should consider ourselves blessed knowing these wonderful and amazing truths.
FreeGrace2 said:
When facts are given to someone yet that someone refuses to acknowledge, what else may be going on?
But my challenge stands. Show me any fact that I've refused.
When facts are given to someone yet that someone refuses to acknowledge, what else may be going on?
Nothing else is going on. They are unteachable. Just like closing your eyes and plugging your ears. And humming.
Show me any fact that I've refused.
Well, there you go. You just answered your own question.
But my challenge stands. Show me any fact that I've refused.
The Scripture I provide says what I believe. The problem is that YOU have a different "interpreation" of the verses.
Again, the verses I quote SAY what I believe. It doesn't require "interpretation". It only requires belief in those words.
[QUOTEAnyway, I will pray for you, that God will humble your soul when it comes to these non salvic doctrines and show you how he hates division and it is not from him.[/QUOTE]
Jesus told a group of new believers that "the Truth will make you free". John 8:32.
When people wrongly divide the Word of Truth, you think that makes God happy? Of course not.
Your views have been refuted by the CLEAR WORDS OF SCRIPTURE. You are the one who is kicking against the goads. To borrow a phrase.
No it doesn't.
That passage ^ proves "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" takes place prior to "the day of the Lord" [earthly] time-period (which itself commences with the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" per 1Th5:2-3 / Matt24:4/Mk13:5... that is, well-before His Second Coming to the earth at His "MANIFESTATION" v.8b point in time [ / 'OPENLY MANIFEST' 1Tim6:15]).
Right. And that's basically also what the word in 2Th2:8b is ALSO expressing... G2015 means "conspicuous appearing; appearing, manifestation, glorious display"...
... but in v.1, it's not speaking of THAT; rather, is speaking of "OUR episynagoges UNTO HIM" (UP THERE, "IN THE AIR,"... where NO ONE ELSE will be "IN HIS PRESENCE" except US / the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY, at that point... of whom "RAPTURE" SOLELY pertains!)
[V.1 and v.8b have a DURATION OF TIME between them!!!]
Pardom me for interjecting here, I am just a humble Rookie to all this, so I maybe out of line here. Please forgive me if I am.
FreeGrace2, you state your understanding of 2Thess 2:1 strongly as fact, but you may have actually opened the door to it being only a possibility, in your use of the word AT in defense. I find that the small words in "Gods word" can make a big difference in understanding. The text of your reference, 2Thess 2:1, actually uses the word and to seperate the concepts of his 2nd coming and our being gathered to him. My understanding of the word and, is to connect two related but seperate items or ideas. In this case I am not sure this 100% (fact) implies they occur at the same time. If you are correct, wouldn´t it have been more accurately written as, our gathering to him at his 2nd coming, rather than and as it is written.. Interestingly, you used the word AT, in your statement of fact, because it makes the position indisputable or fact as you said. I find God´s use of words to be 100% precise and accurate. God says what he means, and means what he says so to speak. He used and, when he could have used at if that is what he meant. Now in the end you may be correct, but it would appear to me that there is another posibility of understanding, and that, unfortunately, would not make it fact. But this is just my humble opinion. Love and blessings to you.
FreeGrace2, you state your understanding of 2Thess 2:1 strongly as fact, but you may have actually opened the door to it being only a possibility, in your use of the word AT in defense. I find that the small words in "Gods word" can make a big difference in understanding. The text of your reference, 2Thess 2:1, actually uses the word and to seperate the concepts of his 2nd coming and our being gathered to him. My understanding of the word and, is to connect two related but seperate items or ideas. In this case I am not sure this 100% (fact) implies they occur at the same time. If you are correct, wouldn´t it have been more accurately written as, our gathering to him at his 2nd coming, rather than and as it is written.. Interestingly, you used the word AT, in your statement of fact, because it makes the position indisputable or fact as you said. I find God´s use of words to be 100% precise and accurate. God says what he means, and means what he says so to speak. He used and, when he could have used at if that is what he meant. Now in the end you may be correct, but it would appear to me that there is another posibility of understanding, and that, unfortunately, would not make it fact. But this is just my humble opinion. Love and blessings to you.