Who should get the credit for your salvation, you or God? Who makes the decision?

[CorrectiveLens]

For the benefit of myself and all the members of CC, I would like to hear both sides of the argument. I'll start off by taking a side and see what the other side has to say. Please understand that my purpose is not to push a belief but to listen to both sides of a super important concept.

Romans 11: 5 Even so, then , at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Do we elect ourselves or does someone else do the choosing?

Romans 11: 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more of grace: otherwise work is no more work.

We are saved because of God's grace. If we give ourselves the credit for choosing, is it still an election of grace or is it because of something that we did? Are we taking glory that belongs to God and giving it to ourselves?

 

[p_rehbein]

There is ONLY ONE SIDE, and IF it is an argument, then someone is going to be sorely disappointed on the day they stand in front of the Lord.

JESUS THE CHRIST IS OUR SALVATION! God established His Salvation Plan to make it so.

Now, IF you are trying to make an argument for hyper grace, then THAT IS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thing.

 

[p_rehbein]

Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”

Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”

1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”

Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”

Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”

Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …

Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”

Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”

Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

 

[DeanM]

Christ gets the credit. He leaves the decision to accept to us.

 

[Runningman]

For the benefit of myself and all the members of CC, I would like to hear both sides of the argument. I'll start off by taking a side and see what the other side has to say. Please understand that my purpose is not to push a belief but to listen to both sides of a super important concept.

Romans 11: 5 Even so, then , at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Do we elect ourselves or does someone else do the choosing?

Romans 11: 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more of grace: otherwise work is no more work.

We are saved because of God's grace WW2. If we give ourselves the credit for choosing, is it still an election of grace or is it because of something that we did? Are we taking glory that belongs to God and giving it to ourselves?

Well, the question would be if faith is a work. I think the answer is no.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There are numerous other verses to support this, but I think Eph. 2:8-9 summarizes it in the most concise manner possible.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Leviticus 17:11, 14 (cp. Deuteronomy 12:23) “For the life of the flesh
is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an
atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement
for the soul…. For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life
thereof …”

Hebrews 9:22 “Without the shedding of blood, there is
no remission of sins.”

1 John 1:7″… the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth
us from all sin.”

Exodus 12:13 “… and when I see the blood, I will pass over
you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you,
when I smite the land of Egypt.”

Revelation 12:11 “And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood
of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony …”

Hebrews 9:14 “How much more shall the blood of Christ, who
through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God,
purge your conscience …

Hebrews 10:19, 22 “Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter
into the holiest by the blood of Jesus … Let us draw near with a true
heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an
evil conscience …”

Hebrews 13:12 “Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify
the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.”

Romans 3:24-25 “Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”

Romans 5:9 “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”

You are not getting the question.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Well, the question would be if faith is a work. I think the answer is no.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There are numerous other verses to support this, but I think Eph. 2:8-9 summarizes it in the most concise manner possible.

What does it mean " through faith and that NOT OF YOURSELVES" ? Does that mean that that faith comes from ourselves or from God? And, does " Not of works, lest any man should boast" mean that no human who gets to heaven got there because of his choice giving himself the glory for his choice? Isn't that boasting?

 

[Runningman]

What does it mean " through faith and that NOT OF YOURSELVES" ? Does that mean that that faith comes from ourselves or from God? And, does " Not of works, lest any man should boast" mean that no human who gets to heaven got there because of his choice giving himself the glory for his choice? Isn't that boasting?

I think Jesus explains it a little more in the parable of the sower, Matt 13.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Christ gets the credit. He leaves the decision to accept to us.

Please give me scripture and not just opinions. Thanks.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

When I first began studying the bible, I had a great deal of difficulty with Paul. He always sounded like a lot of "double talk" to me.

But, there is confusion about the concept of faith and works. People struggle, as I did, wondering what we must do to receive faith and be saved. Seemingly, we must work out our own salvation.

But, works are the fruit of grace and grace is entirely of God.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:

and

Romans 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

To even hear the laws and precepts of God and understand them is by grace. It is given to us. To then do the keep them and be "doers" of the law are the fruits of God's grace to us.

As far as people "accepting" grace from God, that's a whole other theology that I believe is contrary to the bible. Predestination or "election" is a frightening concept. if you're afraid, likely you are elected and called into the scriptures. The fruits of that calling to grace is faith and works. None of which is performed by us ourselves.

 

[MattforJesus]

For the benefit of myself and all the members of CC, I would like to hear both sides of the argument. I'll start off by taking a side and see what the other side has to say. Please understand that my purpose is not to push a belief but to listen to both sides of a super important concept.

Romans 11: 5 Even so, then , at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Do we elect ourselves or does someone else do the choosing?

Romans 11: 6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works; otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more of grace: otherwise work is no more work.

We are saved because of God's grace. If we give ourselves the credit for choosing, is it still an election of grace or is it because of something that we did? Are we taking glory that belongs to God and giving it to ourselves?

We have a choice in our salvation for God's kingdom is true love not robotic love.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

There is none good, no, not one.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

God is no respecter of persons but all who work righteousness is accepted with Him.

If you break the least of the law you broke it all.

All people are the same in the eyes of God so He would not choose some over others but there must be a choice that we have.

God would not choose who would be saved and not saved without their choice in the matter.

Jesus lights every person born in to this world which means all people have the chance to see the light of Jesus and be saved.

Many are called but few are chosen.

God chose us we did not choose Him.

Some have a form of living for God but deny the Spirit leading them so they operate according to the flesh and do things of the flesh but believe they are still saved which they are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

When God calls a person He will work in their life to get them to the truth and if they get to the door of truth they have to decide whether to go through the door or not for God's kingdom is true love, but they would of not gotten to the door of truth if God did not intervene in their life for the flesh will not do it on its own for there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh, and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other.

And that door of truth is allowing the Spirit to lead them to act Christlike which not all people who claim Christ allow the Spirit to lead them.

We would of not come to the truth unless God intervenes in our life, but we have to make the choice to walk through the door of truth by allowing the Spirit to lead us for God's kingdom is love.

It takes God to intervene in our life for us to get to the truth.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

No person says Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost.

Peter said Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God which Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to him but the Father.

The Bible says not many mighty, not many wise after the flesh, not many noble are called for their heart condition is not right to be called which people in those positions do not love people like they should and like to highly exalt themselves above people.

God calls us according to our heart condition even though we are sinners but we are half way decent and have a general concern for people and believe in a higher power.

 

[DeanM]

Please give me scripture and not just opinions. Thanks.

Read any gospel. Lots of scripture there. I really have no idea what you want to hear/read.

 

[Blade]

Seems you didn't touch both not sure why maybe you don't know. Not a question I ever get but praise God. First thing that comes to mind is no one comes to the Father unless He draws them "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day." . That alone should answer that. Now if you want to touch faith then ever one is given the measure of faith "For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himselfmore highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith."

So that "faith" comes from Him. Everyone that came to Him.. He alone draws them. Did not He say no man will glory in His sight "That no flesh should glory in his presence.". Now for me if that thought popped in my head that I should get the credit... right there a lie not of God and I would resist that thought in JESUS Name. Should be very easy well WHO is it pointing to? Me not Him.. Amen

 

[Deuteronomy]

Who should get the credit for your salvation, you or God?

Hello CorrectiveLens, clearly, God gets the credit for our salvation, because apart from all that He did for us, no one would/could be saved. The question is, does He get ~all~ of the credit, or ~almost~ all of it

The church teaches two different kinds/types of enabling grace, Prevenient Grace (which is taught by Catholicism and Arminianism), and Irresistible Grace (which is taught by Calvinism).

Prevenient Grace = God enables ALL to believe, but only SOME of us end up choosing to do so.​

Irresistible Grace = God enables SOME of us to believe, but ALL (who are so enabled) eventually choose to do so.​

So, if God makes it possible for ~all~ of us to believe (by giving ~everyone~ the gift of saving faith), but only ~some~ of us choose to exercise that gift and believe, then the difference between Heaven and Hell, in the end, boils down to the choice that we make as individuals, apart from Grace. In this case, God receives "almost all" of the credit for our salvation.

If, on the other hand, God chooses to give the gift of saving faith to ~some~ of us instead, but ~all~ (who are given the gift) eventually choose to exercise it by believing, then "all" of the credit for our salvation goes to God alone.

That's how I understand it anyway.

God bless you!

~Deut

 

[CorrectiveLens]

We have a choice in our salvation for God's kingdom is true love not robotic love.

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

There is none good, no, not one.

Our righteousness is as filthy rags.

God is no respecter of persons but all who work righteousness is accepted with Him.

If you break the least of the law you broke it all.

All people are the same in the eyes of God so He would not choose some over others but there must be a choice that we have.

God would not choose who would be saved and not saved without their choice in the matter.

Jesus lights every person born in to this world which means all people have the chance to see the light of Jesus and be saved.

Many are called but few are chosen.

God chose us we did not choose Him.

Some have a form of living for God but deny the Spirit leading them so they operate according to the flesh and do things of the flesh but believe they are still saved which they are ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

When God calls a person He will work in their life to get them to the truth and if they get to the door of truth they have to decide whether to go through the door or not for God's kingdom is true love, but they would of not gotten to the door of truth if God did not intervene in their life for the flesh will not do it on its own for there is no good thing that dwells in the flesh, and the Spirit and flesh are contrary to each other.

And that door of truth is allowing the Spirit to lead them to act Christlike which not all people who claim Christ allow the Spirit to lead them.

We would of not come to the truth unless God intervenes in our life, but we have to make the choice to walk through the door of truth by allowing the Spirit to lead us for God's kingdom is love.

It takes God to intervene in our life for us to get to the truth.

No person comes to the Son unless the Father draws them.

No person says Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost.

Peter said Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God which Jesus said flesh and blood did not reveal that to him but the Father.

The Bible says not many mighty, not many wise after the flesh, not many noble are called for their heart condition is not right to be called which people in those positions do not love people like they should and like to highly exalt themselves above people.

God calls us according to our heart condition even though we are sinners but we are half way decent and have a general concern for people and believe in a higher power.[/QUOTE

Concerning your statement " All people are the same in the eyes of God so He would not choose some over others but there must be a choice that we have." I would refer you to Romans 9: 11-15

( For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of Him that calleth).

It was said unto her ( Gen 25: 23), The elder shall serve the younger.

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. (Mal 1: 2-3).

What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

For He saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

 

[CorrectiveLens]

Hello CorrectiveLens, clearly, God gets the credit for our salvation, because apart from all that He did for us, no one would/could be saved. The question is, does He get ~all~ of the credit, or ~almost~ all of it

The church teaches two different kinds/types of enabling grace, Prevenient Grace (which is taught by Catholicism and Arminianism), and Irresistible Grace (which is taught by Calvinism).

Prevenient Grace = God enables ALL to believe, but only SOME of us end up choosing to do so.​

Irresistible Grace = God enables SOME of us to believe, but ALL (who are so enabled) eventually choose to do so.​

So, if God makes it possible for ~all~ of us to believe (by giving ~everyone~ the gift of saving faith), but only ~some~ of us choose to exercise that gift and believe, then the difference between Heaven and Hell, in the end, boils down to the choice that we make as individuals, apart from Grace. In this case, God receives "almost all" of the credit for our salvation.

If, on the other hand, God chooses to give the gift of saving faith to ~some~ of us instead, but ~all~ (who are given the gift) eventually choose to exercise it by believing, then "all" of the credit for our salvation goes to God alone.

That's how I understand it anyway.

God bless you!

~Deut

Hi Deut. Thank you for responding. There is another way of looking at this. God created man with a free will and found him defective. His defect was his heart. Adam and Eve followed their corrupt hearts for selfish reasons and disobeyed God. During the creation plants and animals were created fully grown adults with the capacity to procreate like kinds. So all of Adam and Eve's offsprings are born with this defect. The penalty for sin is death and man is born with this tendency to sin. God's kingdom includes spirit beings that can observe God's interactions with mankind. In God's kingdom there is perfect Justice and Mercy. God's choices are condemn all humanity to hell, save all of humanity or save some . If He sends everyone to hell than He would not be showing Mercy. If He saves everyone, then there would be no Justice and everyone would run wild and disobedient. His only choice is to save a few. These chosen few exist throughout the history of mankind and He is not willing that any of them should perish. So He endures with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath throughout human history so that those few chosen to receive His grace can come to fruition.
When God chooses a person unto salvation, He first grants him the repentance that is so real and deep that the person acknowledges to God his sins and turns to Him for forgiveness and strength. He then finds out ( God will provide a way) that his sins can be forgiven simply by trusting in the Father's plan for the remission of sins through Jesus Christ's death on the cross. Simply put, God's justice is perfectly balanced (as on a balance scale). When the perfect Jesus allowed himself to die, the weight shifted toward death and in God's Justice life is owed to Jesus which the Father gives to those that are part of Jesus' body. This happens when the person receives the gift of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit of God seals us as part of Jesus' body, makes us One with Jesus and the Father, makes us co-heirs with Jesus, and perfects us by giving us a new heart that is full of the same love that is shared by the Father and the Son. See Rom 9: 20-23
Am I being too simplistic in my understanding?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Who should get the credit for your salvation, you or God? Who makes the decision?

This question creates a false conflict unnecessarily. The issue of "taking credit" is not even a genuine issue. Why? Because no genuine believer takes credit for his or her salvation for the simple reason that salvation is solely on the basis of (1) God's grace and (2) the finished work of Christ.

At the same time the Bible shows that (1) God commands all men everywhere to repent, therefore the decision to repent is that of the sinner, and (2) God commands all sinners to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, therefore each one must receive Christ as both Lord and Savior. That too is a decision required by God.

Those who believe are deemed to be "elect according to the foreknowledge of God". And election is for the perfection and glorification of the saints (Rom 8:29,30).

 

[NOV25]

“If only a single infant dying in irresponsible infancy be saved, the whole Arminian principle is traversed...” BB Warfield.

 

[Evmur]

This question creates a false conflict unnecessarily. The issue of "taking credit" is not even a genuine issue. Why? Because no genuine believer takes credit for his or her salvation for the simple reason that salvation is solely on the basis of (1) God's grace and (2) the finished work of Christ.

At the same time the Bible shows that (1) God commands all men everywhere to repent, therefore the decision to repent is that of the sinner, and (2) God commands all sinners to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, therefore each one must receive Christ as both Lord and Savior. That too is a decision required by God.

Those who believe are deemed to be "elect according to the foreknowledge of God". And election is for the perfection and glorification of the saints (Rom 8:29,30).

Isn't that double talk? we don't take credit but it is the result of our good and wise decision.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Isn't that double talk? we don't take credit but it is the result of our good and wise decision.

No it is not double-talk. That is exactly what is in the Bible. And you yourself would have made the decision to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, just like that Philippian jailer. If not, then you cannot claim to be saved.

C. H. Spurgeon was a famous Calvinist preacher, yet his sermons urged his hearers to repent and turn to Christ for salvation. Here is what he preached in one of his sermons:

"Will the Lord's people kindly pray for me while I now speak to the unconverted? Ask that I may have God-speed while I try and speak to those who are seeking the Lord, and have not yet believed in him. I want to say to them just this: "O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe!" Some of you are really seeking the Lord, but you say that you cannot believe, though you long to believe. You are not like the spider, whose motto is, "I get everything out of myself." You do not hope to spin salvation out of your own bowels, but you own that salvation must be through faith in Christ. So far so good: but how is it that you do not at once believe? You say you cannot. How is it that you cannot believe in Jesus? He commands you to believe in him, and promises that you shall be saved. Trust him, and you shall live as surely as his Word is true."

Folly of Unbelief. Sermon No. 1980.