How We Can Tell If We Possess The Agape of God
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For either reasons of a lack of will or skill, you've not compared the Scriptures, but resorted to false dichotomies. No matter, I'm happy to walk you through it using the Socratic Method, as our Savior often did:
1. Can the wicked keep God's commandments, yes or no? (Romans 8:7 KJV)
2. Do the saints demonstrate "agape" for God and each other by keeping the commandments? (1 John 5:2-3 KJV)
3. Can the wicked who cannot keep the commandments possess agape, which is demonstrated by keeping the commandments? (Romans 8:7 KJV; 1 John 5:2-3 KJV)
4. If the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV are said to possess agape, does that make them saints or the wicked?
Therefore, the "many" in verse 12 are SAINTS who are contrasted with those in verse 13 who "endure to the end" and are "saved", which means the cold and dead agape of the SAINTS in verse 12 leaves them unable to endure to the end and wind up lost. See how easy that was?
1. Can the wicked keep God's commandments, yes or no? (Romans 8:7 KJV)
2. Do the saints demonstrate "agape" for God and each other by keeping the commandments? (1 John 5:2-3 KJV)
3. Can the wicked who cannot keep the commandments possess agape, which is demonstrated by keeping the commandments? (Romans 8:7 KJV; 1 John 5:2-3 KJV)
4. If the "many" of Matthew 24:12 KJV are said to possess agape, does that make them saints or the wicked?
Therefore, the "many" in verse 12 are SAINTS who are contrasted with those in verse 13 who "endure to the end" and are "saved", which means the cold and dead agape of the SAINTS in verse 12 leaves them unable to endure to the end and wind up lost. See how easy that was?
Everything was great until we got to point number 4. If we continue to read in Matthew 24, we will find that the people you are questioning, Jesus does it for us. He said:
Matthew 24:45-48, 51 KJV - "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; ... 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
These evil servants, these hypocrites . . . are not these the ones of who were spoken of within the parable of Seeds? The seed that is scorched, trampled, and eaten by birds, these are the ones whose hearts grow cold. They are on fire, to begin with, but the struggling of this world comes and influences these people to turn from Christ.
Matthew 24:45-48, 51 KJV - "Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; ... 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
These evil servants, these hypocrites . . . are not these the ones of who were spoken of within the parable of Seeds? The seed that is scorched, trampled, and eaten by birds, these are the ones whose hearts grow cold. They are on fire, to begin with, but the struggling of this world comes and influences these people to turn from Christ.
Leviticus 19:17 NLT - 17 "Do not nurse hatred in your heart for any of your relatives. Confront people directly so you will not be held guilty for their sin."
Leviticus 19:17 KJV - 17 "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him."
I have no idea of what this has to do with a person who believes that the Spirit Seals and Guarantees an Eternal Inheritance.
Leviticus 19:17 KJV - 17 "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him."
I have no idea of what this has to do with a person who believes that the Spirit Seals and Guarantees an Eternal Inheritance.
1. Does your question align with the wording of Romans 8:7, yes or no? NO!
2. Does 1 John 5:2-3 define "agape" as "keeping the commandments", yes or no? NO!
3. Is your question a complete non sequitur, yes or no? YES!
4. Is your question another non sequitur, yes or no? YES!
Therefore, there is no point in considering your conclusion. Any other massive failures you'd care to undertake?
2. Does 1 John 5:2-3 define "agape" as "keeping the commandments", yes or no? NO!
3. Is your question a complete non sequitur, yes or no? YES!
4. Is your question another non sequitur, yes or no? YES!
Therefore, there is no point in considering your conclusion. Any other massive failures you'd care to undertake?
Original greek I guess its which one we use huh." "and because the to be multiplied the lawlessness will be growing cold the love of the many" or "because of the multiplication of wickedness the love of most will grow gold". So which is it? Will be growing gold or will grow cold? Makes a huge differences here.
You made a statement yet it is no where in the word of God "that the "many" whose agape grows cold and dead are going to be lost.". Not even written. So why is your statement true yet what someone else wrote that has more weight to their word said "Those who spend all their time arguing about the times and the seasons are not the ones who will triumph in the end. Only those who maintain a faithful spirit and a positive witness in the midst of the corruption of this age will be saved in the end". So just what are you doing?
If you want others to read and think on what you said then will not you also do the same for what I just posted from someone else?
What one needs to look at also is just who asked Him this. It was Jewish people not one Christian asked about end times. Christ had not even died yet. Jews asked about the end and He told them what they would see. So we need to also touch on "Caught up". If your pre-trib your not here for this.. if your mind-trib you still won't see most of this. Now if your post-trip then you will be here for a time like no other in all history for what was will be again. A lawless one will be doing (lying) wonders the world will look at as a GOD. If we can not live for Him now we never will then. I don't know many that can live by faith and no matter what happens GOD ALWAYS protects then so nothing touches them. Yet some believe that will happen during the great tribulation. They don't have the faith now they never will then. Now or then He will NEVER go against your will. This is me just sharing and I can be wrong praise GOD glory to my JESUS!
For me as I read all you said what stands out is OSAS. It would seem this is what your post is really about. Praise GOD glory to Jesus.. my salvation is not based on what someone else personally believes. f
You made a statement yet it is no where in the word of God "that the "many" whose agape grows cold and dead are going to be lost.". Not even written. So why is your statement true yet what someone else wrote that has more weight to their word said "Those who spend all their time arguing about the times and the seasons are not the ones who will triumph in the end. Only those who maintain a faithful spirit and a positive witness in the midst of the corruption of this age will be saved in the end". So just what are you doing?
If you want others to read and think on what you said then will not you also do the same for what I just posted from someone else? What one needs to look at also is just who asked Him this. It was Jewish people not one Christian asked about end times. Christ had not even died yet. Jews asked about the end and He told them what they would see. So we need to also touch on "Caught up". If your pre-trib your not here for this.. if your mind-trib you still won't see most of this. Now if your post-trip then you will be here for a time like no other in all history for what was will be again. A lawless one will be doing (lying) wonders the world will look at as a GOD. If we can not live for Him now we never will then. I don't know many that can live by faith and no matter what happens GOD ALWAYS protects then so nothing touches them. Yet some believe that will happen during the great tribulation. They don't have the faith now they never will then. Now or then He will NEVER go against your will. This is me just sharing and I can be wrong praise GOD glory to my JESUS!
For me as I read all you said what stands out is OSAS. It would seem this is what your post is really about. Praise GOD glory to Jesus.. my salvation is not based on what someone else personally believes. f
Seems like you're inching closer to finally getting it. It's all about love for God and love for our neighbor as ourselves.
P.S. - there won't be any people in heaven who didn't break the 10 commandments. But there will plenty of people who loved their neighbor enough to be merciful when they failed.
Matthew 5:7
7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
James 2:12-13
12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
P.S. - there won't be any people in heaven who didn't break the 10 commandments. But there will plenty of people who loved their neighbor enough to be merciful when they failed.
Matthew 5:7
7Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
James 2:12-13
12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
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Stick with the Textus Receptus, which has it as "cold". The other NT MSS are about as crooked as barrel of fish hooks.
It's an inference which any thinking person who isn't defending OSAS will easily accept. Those in verse 13 clearly shown as on the straight path to victory in contrast to those in verse 12 who are doing the exact opposite. But, if we're going to ignore everything we learned about reading comprehension in school, ring the bell because school's in:
This is a "Hebrew Chiasm" -- structured as "A1B1/A2B2". (FYI, the Hebrews didn't rhyme words like us in the West - they rhymed ideas, often including the antithesis of ideas, as well, and by this form Hebrew poetry.)
Verse 12:
A1 = Iniquity
B1 = Cold Agape
Verse 13:
A2 = endure to the end
B2 = Saved
Here, A1 and B1 are rhymed and A2 and B2 are rhymed, but A1 is contrasted with A2 and B1 is contrasted with B2.
Let's not pretend the fate of those in verse 12 whose agape for God grows "cold" within them due to widespread iniquity are still in love with and loyal to God and not joining in the iniquitous sins of everyone around them.
No, what we need to look at is what's plainly staring us in the face: Jesus' words that one group of saints that remains faithful
is saved in contrast to the other group of saints who cannot hope to remain faithful due to cold agape for God...which leaves them unable to endure to the end and be saved.
It's an inference which any thinking person who isn't defending OSAS will easily accept. Those in verse 13 clearly shown as on the straight path to victory in contrast to those in verse 12 who are doing the exact opposite. But, if we're going to ignore everything we learned about reading comprehension in school, ring the bell because school's in:
This is a "Hebrew Chiasm" -- structured as "A1B1/A2B2". (FYI, the Hebrews didn't rhyme words like us in the West - they rhymed ideas, often including the antithesis of ideas, as well, and by this form Hebrew poetry.)
Verse 12:
A1 = Iniquity
B1 = Cold Agape
Verse 13:
A2 = endure to the end
B2 = Saved
Here, A1 and B1 are rhymed and A2 and B2 are rhymed, but A1 is contrasted with A2 and B1 is contrasted with B2.
Let's not pretend the fate of those in verse 12 whose agape for God grows "cold" within them due to widespread iniquity are still in love with and loyal to God and not joining in the iniquitous sins of everyone around them.
No, what we need to look at is what's plainly staring us in the face: Jesus' words that one group of saints that remains faithful
is saved in contrast to the other group of saints who cannot hope to remain faithful due to cold agape for God...which leaves them unable to endure to the end and be saved.
You've disproved nothing. They are SAINTS in Matthew 24:12 KJV because they possess "agape".
You've yet to show the "many" do not possess agape.
You've yet to show that the wicked can possess agape.
And, you know you will never be able to, which means both groups in Matthew 24:12-13 KJV are SAINTS.
But, rather than abandon your comfortable lie, you choose to dig your heels in deeper, which is cool. Churchill said all men at some point stumble over the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up and keep going.
You've yet to show the "many" do not possess agape.
You've yet to show that the wicked can possess agape.
And, you know you will never be able to, which means both groups in Matthew 24:12-13 KJV are SAINTS.
But, rather than abandon your comfortable lie, you choose to dig your heels in deeper, which is cool. Churchill said all men at some point stumble over the truth, but most manage to pick themselves up and keep going.
Good gravy, man, "agape" IS the love of God in us that we manifest towards Him and others by keeping the commandments (1 John 5:2-3 KJV)!!!
Good gravy, man, please, if you're not going to open your Bible, at least click on the links.
Good gravy, man, please, if you're not going to open your Bible, at least click on the links.