WE are judged by what we do vs. we are saved by faith alone.

[eternally-gratefull]

And that verse, whch is about justification, isn't about saving faith at all. It's about being justified in the eyes of others because they can see the believers's faith by the believer's deeds. That's the point of James 2:18.

Both Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2;8,9 show that salvation does not involves works.

Don’t forget titus 3:5

 

[throughfaith]

Judged for what?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do a word search for faith alone and there is only one verse that comes up.

While you may not find the word "alone" beside "faith" or "believe" or "believed" IT IS IMPLIED. So that is simply a straw man argument. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" means just that. Faith alone. There is nothing more added.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

we must accept scripture in context.

Amen! Especially In God's Context, Rightly Divided, to AVOID MIXING UP
HIS TWO Different Programs!! Amen?:

God's Simple Will

 

[Blik]

“Sinless perfection” is found no where even remotely connected with the word “perfect.” The “perfect,” therefore, in Matthew 5, is “perfection” in meeting the requirements of verses 45–47

I don't think the perfection means a thing except perfection. When Christ told us this He knew we could not attain it, yet he asked us to do that. Christ knew it would only be that we are to try to do that, and that perfection is only through Him. We are not to try for imperfection.

 

[GodMyFortress]

While you may not find the word "alone" beside "faith" or "believe" or "believed" IT IS IMPLIED. So that is simply a straw man argument. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" means just that. Faith alone. There is nothing more added.

What the Bible explicitly says is we are not justified by faith alone (James 2:24). I don’t have to worry about anything being implied when you have something that clear in the Bible.

 

[GodMyFortress]

Do a word search for faith alone and there is only one verse that comes up.

There is no faith alone, saving faith is never alone. Its just a catchy catchphrase that came about during the reformation. Martin Luther went so far as to insert the word to the book of Romans. It kind of just became a doctrine.

They just can’t humble themselves and admit their wrong. If you believe Jesus is God you also have to be obedient to the commands Jesus gave us. Belief and obedience is what having “Faith” means.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What the Bible explicitly says is we are not justified by faith alone (James 2:24). I don’t have to worry about anything being implied when you have something that clear in the Bible.

Like eph 2: 8-9 and titus 3:5

Did paul and James appose each other?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They just can’t humble themselves and admit their wrong. If you believe Jesus is God you also have to be obedient to the commands Jesus gave us. Belief and obedience is what having “Faith” means.

Humble ourselves?

god said the requirment is perfection, if we want to be saved by works that the requirement.

we have humbles ourselves to this fact, why don’t other people do this?

 

[GodMyFortress]

Like eph 2: 8-9 and titus 3:5

Did paul and James appose each other?

I know those verses well and I agree with them. We both know those verses are true and we know James 2:24 is true.

It is obvious from those verses you mentioned that works cannot justify you. James makes it clear faith alone cannot justify you and that works do have a role to play. So any reasonable person would conclude that faith and works are necessary for our justification.

 

[throughfaith]

Amen! Especially In God's Context, Rightly Divided, to AVOID MIXING UP
HIS TWO Different Programs!! Amen?:

God's Simple Will

Amen .

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

If you believe Jesus is God you also have to be obedient to the commands Jesus gave us.

What the Bible explicitly says is we are not justified by faith alone (James 2:24).

Ok then, let US "check the perfection" of obeying ALL of JESUS' Commands,
Since HE Explicitly Said: "teaching them to OBSERVE ALL things Whatsoever I
Have Commanded":

Have WE SOLD EVERYTHING? Jesus’ Commanded in Matthew_19:21, Mark_10:21, and Luke_12:33, 18:22! THE Twelve and Jewish believers OBEYED In: Acts_2:44-45 and 4:32!! LIVING faith, Correct?
+
Have WE obeyed MOSES’ Law?: Matthew_23:1-3 OBEYED Years Later, THOUSANDS of Jewish believers OBEYED! Acts_21:20!! LIVING faith, Correct?

Since NO ONE today has OBEYED JESUS' Explicit Commands, then, WE ALL have
a DEAD faith! Correct? James Explicitly said: "faith WITHOUT works IS DEAD!!!"

Be Blessed!

 

[throughfaith]

Do a word search for faith alone and there is only one verse that comes up.

There is no faith alone, saving faith is never alone. Its just a catchy catchphrase that came about during the reformation. Martin Luther went so far as to insert the word to the book of Romans. It kind of just became a doctrine.

I can't see anything other than 'trust ' and ' believing ' here.

13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
Eph 1.

 

[GodMyFortress]

Ok then, let US "check the perfection" of obeying ALL of JESUS' Commands,
Since HE Explicitly Said: "teaching them to OBSERVE ALL things Whatsoever I
Have Commanded":

Have WE SOLD EVERYTHING? Jesus’ Commanded in Matthew_19:21, Mark_10:21, and Luke_12:33, 18:22! THE Twelve and Jewish believers OBEYED In: Acts_2:44-45 and 4:32!! LIVING faith, Correct?
+
Have WE obeyed MOSES’ Law?: Matthew_23:1-3 OBEYED Years Later, THOUSANDS of Jewish believers OBEYED! Acts_21:20!! LIVING faith, Correct?

Since NO ONE today has OBEYED JESUS' Explicit Commands, then, WE ALL have
a DEAD faith! Correct? James Explicitly said: "faith WITHOUT works IS DEAD!!!"

Be Blessed!

Who said anything about perfection? If we fall into sin and fail to live up to the commands Jesus gave us, he has told us to ask his forgiveness and then it is forgiven.

 

[mailmandan]

What the Bible explicitly says is we are not justified by faith alone (James 2:24).

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.”

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
And that verse, whch is about justification, isn't about saving faith at all. It's about being justified in the eyes of others because they can see the believers's faith by the believer's deeds. That's the point of James 2:18.

Both Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2;8,9 show that salvation does not involves works.

Don’t forget titus 3:5

I have a list of about 24 verses that link believing to salvation and eternal life. None mention works.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What the Bible explicitly says is we are not justified by faith alone (James 2:24). I don’t have to worry about anything being implied when you have something that clear in the Bible.

Unless you are totally misinterpreting what James said. James cannot be in conflict with Paul, since both were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. James was focused on the EVIDENCE or PROOF of justification by grace through faith and that is perfectly clear from what we read. If you claim you have saving faith and there is no outward evidence, then that was not saving faith.

However, Paul established the doctrine of justification in the sight of God, and by the direct action of God in response to faith. Read Romans 4. Then read Genesis 15 and AFTER that read Genesis 22.

And He [God] brought him [Abram] forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and He [God] said unto him [Abram], So shall thy seed be. And he [Abram] believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. (Gen 15:5,6)

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom 4:1-5)

NOTICE:

1. Paul -- by divine inspiration -- refers to Abram as "Abraham".

2. Paul -- by divine inspiration -- clarifies "believed in the LORD" and states "believed God".

3. Paul categorically rules out works as the basis for justification.

4. Therefore the only proper conclusion is that it is faith alone that justifies the one who believes. That is justification in the sight of God by His grace alone.

5. Since James would never contradict Paul, he refers to justification in the sight of men. And he refers to what happened in Genesis 22, long after Genesis 15.

So now you do have to worry my friend. Since you are denying Gospel truth, and God is definitely not pleased with that.

 

[GodMyFortress]

Romans 4:2 - For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (faith, not works) was accounted to him for righteousness.”

James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

Initial justification is a separate thing from what I’m talking about, Catholics don’t believe justification is a once and for all thing.

You have no works when you first believe, but once you are justified, you are expected to be obedient to what Jesus taught us or you will be “cut off” as Jesus puts it.

If you fall into grave sin, you are no longer righteousness but once you ask forgiveness for your sins and are reconciled with God you can be justified again.

 

[GodMyFortress]

Unless you are totally misinterpreting what James said. James cannot be in conflict with Paul, since both were writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. James was focused on the EVIDENCE or PROOF of justification by grace through faith and that is perfectly clear from what we read. If you claim you have saving faith and there is no outward evidence, then that was not saving faith.

However, Paul established the doctrine of justification in the sight of God, and by the direct action of God in response to faith. Read Romans 4. Then read Genesis 15 and AFTER that read Genesis 22.

And He [God] brought him [Abram] forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and He [God] said unto him [Abram], So shall thy seed be. And he [Abram] believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. (Gen 15:5,6)

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Rom 4:1-5)

NOTICE:

1. Paul -- by divine inspiration -- refers to Abram as "Abraham".

2. Paul -- by divine inspiration -- clarifies "believed in the LORD" and states "believed God".

3. Paul categorically rules out works as the basis for justification.

4. Therefore the only proper conclusion is that it is faith alone that justifies the one who believes. That is justification in the sight of God by His grace alone.

5. Since James would never contradict Paul, he refers to justification in the sight of men. And he refers to what happened in Genesis 22, long after Genesis 15.

So now you do have to worry my friend. Since you are denying Gospel truth, and God is definitely not pleased with that.

Look at post 30, there is no conflict.

 

[SophieT]

If you fall into grave sin, you are no longer righteousness but once you ask forgiveness for your sins and are reconciled with God you can be justified again.

so then you are counting on obedience to justify yourself. obedience to the works you believe are outlined for a Christian

can't see it I guess. (shrugs)

just a little heads up on how sin works. ANY sin makes you unrighteous unless forgiven by our faith in Christ's death in our place

ANY sin. ALL sin, except for blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, is forgiveable

We don't have a revolving door on our salvation